Author Topic: Committee Proposal: Urgent call for help by the Chinese Community  (Read 25455 times)

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Offline btswildpig

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Seriously, vote these clowns out of committee immediately.  This is embarrassing.


1) The current price feed script does not take into consideration of CNY fiat prices from China mainly established websites eg OKCoin. Feed price for CNY is lower than the actual figure and this causes an artifical arbitrage opportunity. The author of the scipt, xeroc will be making a fix to the price feed script available soon. abit's idea may help in getting the fix up sooner.
The price feed can always use advancement.  It is not broken, and provides a feed generally within about 1%.  This is no cause for alarm.

2) A bot is needed to be created to provide bitCNY buy order positions such that the bid are higher or equal to the 'corrected' feed price. bitcrab needs to provide the fund and technical skill to create this bot.
This has nothing to do with bitshares function, and should be taken up by those interested.  Not by disabling features through the committee.  This is abuse of power.

3) Provide a frontend fix with displaying "settlement" button only when there are buy orders available above the price feed.   Svk is working on the fix.

not necessary, as anyone using the settlement in this case is giving away free money to the shorts, that can immediately replace their position, using the available bids.  But fine, whatever, doesn't make much difference.   


It is important to fix the flaw in the bitshares system now because:

1) Our major partner and only bitCNY<-> CNY provider Transwiser will suffer losses and may be forced to cease this service.  Stopping this crucial service is against the interest of the Bitshares DAC.
Not a flaw.  The flaw is in transwisers service and if they want to remain solvent they should probably fix it.

2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.[/b]
Again, not a flaw.  And if there is any exploitation, it is of transwisers poor business strategy.  It has nothing to do with bitshares. 


Sure...in the meantime while this temporally measures are going on... can transwise put a say 20,000 CNY buy bitCNY order at what they consider "market price"?


Good point Tonyk.  There are many who own bitCNY and now suddenly they have lost the guarantee of a fair price with settlement, due to too many clowns in committee.

Actually , BitCNY holders can get a fair price anytime now at BTC38 .
I suspect BTC38 forget to update their English version page , the Chinese version page already says "it accepts no more than 50,000 BitCNY deposit every day directly turn into CNY balance on a 1:1 ratio  ."

It's a more fair price than what you would get in the DEX because the DEX would never give you 1:1 price considering you actually need to sell your BTS at a unfair spread to get the fiat value you need .

So maybe now you can understand how transwiser is providing a peg that merchants would actually use  , unlike the status with BitUSD .

Last time I check , no exchanges accepts BitUSD as deposit , most of them only provides a market place to trade with .
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 05:34:25 pm by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline clayop

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2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.[/b]


Some members are against this specifically because they can't exploit  :)

exploit what flaw?

if a market participant can see a way to profit they should do as it makes for a more efficient marketfor everyone.

arbitraging lowers spreads!

IIRC, Bitcrab explained the process, when feed price is below the real price (for example, feed price is 0.02, and real price is 0.021)

1) Buy 1000 bitCNY via Transwiser, costing 1003 CNY
2) Settle 1000 bitCNY at 0.02 CNY/BTS . Get 50000 BTS
3) Sell 50000 BTS at 0.021 CNY/BTS. Get 1050 CNY. 4.7% profit.
4) Repeat
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Seriously, vote these clowns out of committee immediately.  This is embarrassing.


1) The current price feed script does not take into consideration of CNY fiat prices from China mainly established websites eg OKCoin. Feed price for CNY is lower than the actual figure and this causes an artifical arbitrage opportunity. The author of the scipt, xeroc will be making a fix to the price feed script available soon. abit's idea may help in getting the fix up sooner.
The price feed can always use advancement.  It is not broken, and provides a feed generally within about 1%.  This is no cause for alarm.

2) A bot is needed to be created to provide bitCNY buy order positions such that the bid are higher or equal to the 'corrected' feed price. bitcrab needs to provide the fund and technical skill to create this bot.
This has nothing to do with bitshares function, and should be taken up by those interested.  Not by disabling features through the committee.  This is abuse of power.

3) Provide a frontend fix with displaying "settlement" button only when there are buy orders available above the price feed.   Svk is working on the fix.

not necessary, as anyone using the settlement in this case is giving away free money to the shorts, that can immediately replace their position, using the available bids.  But fine, whatever, doesn't make much difference.   


It is important to fix the flaw in the bitshares system now because:

1) Our major partner and only bitCNY<-> CNY provider Transwiser will suffer losses and may be forced to cease this service.  Stopping this crucial service is against the interest of the Bitshares DAC.
Not a flaw.  The flaw is in transwisers service and if they want to remain solvent they should probably fix it.

2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.[/b]
Again, not a flaw.  And if there is any exploitation, it is of transwisers poor business strategy.  It has nothing to do with bitshares. 


Sure...in the meantime while this temporally measures are going on... can transwise put a say 20,000 CNY buy bitCNY order at what they consider "market price"?


Good point Tonyk.  There are many who own bitCNY and now suddenly they have lost the guarantee of a fair price with settlement, due to too many clowns in committee.   

Offline clayop

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So we are changing the rules because someone running business around BitShares was ignorant about those rules.
The only excuse that can be offered is lack of proper documentation for BitShares 2.0 - @bytemaster

I thank the community for contributing valuable feedback.  However, I think the on-going debate has distracted the community from the objective of the proposal, which is:

A temporary suspension (estimated about a week or so) to fix the following:

1) The current price feed script does not take into consideration of CNY fiat prices from China mainly established websites eg OKCoin. Feed price for CNY is lower than the actual figure and this causes an artifical arbitrage opportunity. The author of the scipt, xeroc will be making a fix to the price feed script available soon. abit's idea may help in getting the fix up sooner.

2) A bot is needed to be created to provide bitCNY buy order positions such that the bid are higher or equal to the 'corrected' feed price. bitcrab needs to provide the fund and technical skill to create this bot.

3) Provide a frontend fix with displaying "settlement" button only when there are buy orders available above the price feed.   Svk is working on the fix.

It is important to fix the flaw in the bitshares system now because:

1) Our major partner and only bitCNY<-> CNY provider Transwiser will suffer losses and may be forced to cease this service.  Stopping this crucial service is against the interest of the Bitshares DAC.

2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.


Sure...in the meantime while this temporally measures are going on... can transwise put a say 20,000 CNY buy bitCNY order at what they consider "market price"?

You can deposit 50,000 BitCNY to BTC38 per day  (10,000 max per transaction , so you'll need 2 transactions to get 20,000 CNY in BTC38 .  )
Then you can do whatever you want with the 20,000 CNY balance in your BTC38 account, buy BTS, buy BTC ....

btc38 have not opened this feature for the non Chinese customers (last check 12h ago)

edit: yep..not activated yet!

Use Chinese page and google translation. I think you're smart enough to do it.
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Offline Akado

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2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.[/b]


Some members are against this specifically because they can't exploit  :)

exploit what flaw?

if a market participant can see a way to profit they should do as it makes for a more efficient marketfor everyone.

arbitraging lowers spreads!

Now that's up to each individual to realize. If there's actually one or if there isn't.

If making a profit in certain circumstances is at the cost of others or at the cost of BitShares reputation  :)
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Offline tonyk

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So we are changing the rules because someone running business around BitShares was ignorant about those rules.
The only excuse that can be offered is lack of proper documentation for BitShares 2.0 - @bytemaster

I thank the community for contributing valuable feedback.  However, I think the on-going debate has distracted the community from the objective of the proposal, which is:

A temporary suspension (estimated about a week or so) to fix the following:

1) The current price feed script does not take into consideration of CNY fiat prices from China mainly established websites eg OKCoin. Feed price for CNY is lower than the actual figure and this causes an artifical arbitrage opportunity. The author of the scipt, xeroc will be making a fix to the price feed script available soon. abit's idea may help in getting the fix up sooner.

2) A bot is needed to be created to provide bitCNY buy order positions such that the bid are higher or equal to the 'corrected' feed price. bitcrab needs to provide the fund and technical skill to create this bot.

3) Provide a frontend fix with displaying "settlement" button only when there are buy orders available above the price feed.   Svk is working on the fix.

It is important to fix the flaw in the bitshares system now because:

1) Our major partner and only bitCNY<-> CNY provider Transwiser will suffer losses and may be forced to cease this service.  Stopping this crucial service is against the interest of the Bitshares DAC.

2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.


Sure...in the meantime while this temporally measures are going on... can transwise put a say 20,000 CNY buy bitCNY order at what they consider "market price"?

You can deposit 50,000 BitCNY to BTC38 per day  (10,000 max per transaction , so you'll need 2 transactions to get 20,000 CNY in BTC38 .  )
Then you can do whatever you want with the 20,000 CNY balance in your BTC38 account, buy BTS, buy BTC ....

btc38 have not opened this feature for the non Chinese customers (last check 12h ago)

edit: yep..not activated yet!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 05:17:55 pm by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline JonnyB

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2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.[/b]


Some members are against this specifically because they can't exploit  :)

exploit what flaw?

if a market participant can see a way to profit they should do as it makes for a more efficient marketfor everyone.

arbitraging lowers spreads!
I run the @bitshares twitter handle
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Offline btswildpig

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So we are changing the rules because someone running business around BitShares was ignorant about those rules.
The only excuse that can be offered is lack of proper documentation for BitShares 2.0 - @bytemaster

I thank the community for contributing valuable feedback.  However, I think the on-going debate has distracted the community from the objective of the proposal, which is:

A temporary suspension (estimated about a week or so) to fix the following:

1) The current price feed script does not take into consideration of CNY fiat prices from China mainly established websites eg OKCoin. Feed price for CNY is lower than the actual figure and this causes an artifical arbitrage opportunity. The author of the scipt, xeroc will be making a fix to the price feed script available soon. abit's idea may help in getting the fix up sooner.

2) A bot is needed to be created to provide bitCNY buy order positions such that the bid are higher or equal to the 'corrected' feed price. bitcrab needs to provide the fund and technical skill to create this bot.

3) Provide a frontend fix with displaying "settlement" button only when there are buy orders available above the price feed.   Svk is working on the fix.

It is important to fix the flaw in the bitshares system now because:

1) Our major partner and only bitCNY<-> CNY provider Transwiser will suffer losses and may be forced to cease this service.  Stopping this crucial service is against the interest of the Bitshares DAC.

2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.


Sure...in the meantime while this temporally measures are going on... can transwise put a say 20,000 CNY buy bitCNY order at what they consider "market price"?

You can deposit 50,000 BitCNY to BTC38 per day  (10,000 max per transaction , so you'll need 2 transactions to get 20,000 CNY in BTC38 .  )
Then you can do whatever you want with the 20,000 CNY balance in your BTC38 account, buy BTS, buy BTC ....
The service is also backed by transwiser .
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 05:15:13 pm by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Empirical1.2

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2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.[/b]


Some members are against this specifically because they can't exploit  :)

Yes I think a few members were looking to force settle and now they've lost out with this result.

While some members are against force settle partly because they weren't prepared for it.

So it's hard to tell how bad/good it is because there's so much bias. It seems that with a few tweaks it could still end up being a good feature.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 05:15:12 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline Akado

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2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.[/b]


Some members are against this specifically because they can't exploit  :)
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Offline tonyk

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So we are changing the rules because someone running business around BitShares was ignorant about those rules.
The only excuse that can be offered is lack of proper documentation for BitShares 2.0 - @bytemaster

I thank the community for contributing valuable feedback.  However, I think the on-going debate has distracted the community from the objective of the proposal, which is:

A temporary suspension (estimated about a week or so) to fix the following:

1) The current price feed script does not take into consideration of CNY fiat prices from China mainly established websites eg OKCoin. Feed price for CNY is lower than the actual figure and this causes an artifical arbitrage opportunity. The author of the scipt, xeroc will be making a fix to the price feed script available soon. abit's idea may help in getting the fix up sooner.

2) A bot is needed to be created to provide bitCNY buy order positions such that the bid are higher or equal to the 'corrected' feed price. bitcrab needs to provide the fund and technical skill to create this bot.

3) Provide a frontend fix with displaying "settlement" button only when there are buy orders available above the price feed.   Svk is working on the fix.

It is important to fix the flaw in the bitshares system now because:

1) Our major partner and only bitCNY<-> CNY provider Transwiser will suffer losses and may be forced to cease this service.  Stopping this crucial service is against the interest of the Bitshares DAC.

2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.


Sure...in the meantime while this temporally measures are going on... can transwise put a say 20,000 CNY buy bitCNY order at what they consider "market price"?
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline cube

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So we are changing the rules because someone running business around BitShares was ignorant about those rules.
The only excuse that can be offered is lack of proper documentation for BitShares 2.0 - @bytemaster

I thank the community for contributing valuable feedback.  However, I think the on-going debate has distracted the community from the objective of the proposal, which is:

A temporary suspension (estimated about a week or so) of the settle function to fix the following:

1) The current price feed script does not take into consideration of CNY fiat prices from China mainly established websites eg OKCoin. Feed price for CNY is lower than the actual figure and this causes an artifical arbitrage opportunity. The author of the scipt, xeroc will be making a fix to the price feed script available soon. abit's idea may help in getting the fix up sooner.

2) A bot is needed to be created to provide bitCNY buy order positions such that the bid are higher or equal to the 'corrected' feed price. bitcrab needs to provide the fund and technical skill to create this bot.

3) Provide a frontend fix with displaying "settlement" button only when there are buy orders available above the price feed.   Svk is working on the fix.

It is important to fix the flaw in the bitshares system now because:

1) Our major partner and only bitCNY<-> CNY provider Transwiser will suffer losses and may be forced to cease this service.  Stopping this crucial service is against the interest of the Bitshares DAC.

2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.


Outside the scope of this proposal
==========================
There are some forum users who are debating for and against a permanent disabling of the settle function.  While they may be useful, the debate/discussion is outside the scope of the proposal. Please open a new thread to voice and discuss the issue.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 04:54:19 pm by cube »
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Offline bitcrab

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no, someone has lost,  but that's not me, I demand to take actions not because anyone has suffered loss, but because the force settlement rule put a group of people in danger of getting big loss.

the reason why mankind is mankind, partly because they can forecast and take actions to prevent some bad thing from happening.

Yes, I know these are the people I try to protect from your crap! The one that bought bitCNY thinking they can sell at the peg by force settlement and now only can do it for 35% loss....only so you can keep your unrealistic promises, while not losing a dime.

why 35% loss? who? tell me,  with snapshots at best.

sure... Trying to sell 3000-5000 CNY




market has no good depth, so you can not sell all these CNY out at a good price, but what's the problem?
suppose I have 1M BTS, I also cannot sell out at a good price , does that mean BTS is overvalued at the feed price?

why BitCNY  need to be selled all out and then can be proved to have value?
there's gateway, you can redeem BitCNY.

it's ridiculous to rob BTS from shorters just to settle the BitCNY!

 




Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline clayop

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no, someone has lost,  but that's not me, I demand to take actions not because anyone has suffered loss, but because the force settlement rule put a group of people in danger of getting big loss.

the reason why mankind is mankind, partly because they can forecast and take actions to prevent some bad thing from happening.

Yes, I know these are the people I try to protect from your crap! The one that bought bitCNY thinking they can sell at the peg by force settlement and now only can do it for 35% loss....only so you can keep your unrealistic promises, while not losing a dime.

why 35% loss? who? tell me,  with snapshots at best.

sure... Trying to sell 3000-5000 CNY





for any somewhat amount worth talking (1000CNY?) buy at 35 sell at 55
Lol
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Offline tonyk

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no, someone has lost,  but that's not me, I demand to take actions not because anyone has suffered loss, but because the force settlement rule put a group of people in danger of getting big loss.

the reason why mankind is mankind, partly because they can forecast and take actions to prevent some bad thing from happening.

Yes, I know these are the people I try to protect from your crap! The one that bought bitCNY thinking they can sell at the peg by force settlement and now only can do it for 35% loss....only so you can keep your unrealistic promises, while not losing a dime.

why 35% loss? who? tell me,  with snapshots at best.

sure... Trying to sell 3000-5000 CNY





for any somewhat amount worth talking (1000CNY?) buy at 35 sell at 55... 57% spread
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 04:22:21 pm by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.