Author Topic: [ANN] MaxPWR Petitions to Sanction User Newmine  (Read 17199 times)

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Offline NewMine

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Still waiting FreeTrade

If the only price is a project you believe in, are you willing to put all your how about just 75% MMC into development bounties paid to other developers in exchange for a guarantee you'll be able to guide the coin as you see fit?  Somehow I think the speculative upside has your attention too.

It would be great if you addressed the parts that actually matter instead of just responding to semantics.



Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?


He doesn't answer my questions either. Questions that I felt would clear the air and may persuade me to drop my campaign.

Offline jae208

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:0 FREETRADE IS A SNEAKY SLIMBALL!!!!

I hope shi... Memorycoin version TWO crashes and burn

Only one around here that will be getting my money is Bytemaster and his team.
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Offline bytemaster

I for one am shocked and saddened that FreeTrade has abandoned an opportunity to support PTS as a paid position or even take a paid hour of his time to build a new release after others provided the patches.   He left us holding the bag and searching for new developers to support PTS. 

Our agreement was that I would help you launch ProtoShares and see it through for a month and that you would pay a bounty. I thought we both fulfilled our end of the agreement. I can understand you might be disappointed you didn't secure my services after that, but I made you aware from the outset that I am very single minded and handle one project at a time, and that I would likely want to return to MemoryCoin.

Regarding the patches - they seem to mostly be code that it is MemoryCoin and that I've pointed you towards, and I've offered and undertaken builds for you.  I don't think it is fair for you to talk of abandonment or 'left us holding the bag'.

Fair enough, you did everything we paid you to do so didn't really leave us holding the bag.   I really believe you have good intentions, I just don't understand your motivations sometimes.
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Still waiting FreeTrade

If the only price is a project you believe in, are you willing to put all your how about just 75% MMC into development bounties paid to other developers in exchange for a guarantee you'll be able to guide the coin as you see fit?  Somehow I think the speculative upside has your attention too.

It would be great if you addressed the parts that actually matter instead of just responding to semantics.



Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?

Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline FreeTrade

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I for one am shocked and saddened that FreeTrade has abandoned an opportunity to support PTS as a paid position or even take a paid hour of his time to build a new release after others provided the patches.   He left us holding the bag and searching for new developers to support PTS. 

Our agreement was that I would help you launch ProtoShares and see it through for a month and that you would pay a bounty. I thought we both fulfilled our end of the agreement. I can understand you might be disappointed you didn't secure my services after that, but I made you aware from the outset that I am very single minded and handle one project at a time, and that I would likely want to return to MemoryCoin.

Regarding the patches - they seem to mostly be code that it is MemoryCoin and that I've pointed you towards, and I've offered and undertaken builds for you.  I don't think it is fair for you to talk of abandonment or 'left us holding the bag'.
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline bytemaster

I for one am shocked and saddened that FreeTrade has abandoned an opportunity to support PTS as a paid position or even take a paid hour of his time to build a new release after others provided the patches.   He left us holding the bag and searching for new developers to support PTS.  I understand that it was only a bounty that he won, but considering the success and our offer to continue to pay for support, it seems like he is motivated by something other than a paycheck. 

I greatly appreciate FreeTrade demonstrating how PTS can be honored and MMC2 is a huge experiment to demonstrate the perils of using voting systems as a management structure.    I for one was hopeful that MMC2 would be successful, but it has clearly devolved into politics and group trap.


The Group Trap from How I found Freedom in an Unfree World

Next is the Group Trap, which is the belief that you can accomplish more by acting in groups than you can by acting on your own. Harry didn’t believe that there’s anything inherently wrong with participating in groups; you may enjoy the social aspect or something else about it. But you should be consciously aware that, if you just want to accomplish something, you not only don’t have to go through a group, but it’s actually easier to act on your own.

The heart of this Trap is what Harry states is one of the most important keys to finding freedom in life, which is understanding the difference between what he called Direct and Indirect Alternatives. An Indirect Alternative is one that requires you to go through others to get what you want; a Direct Alternative involves you acting by yourself to get what you want, without having to convince anyone else that you’re right.

An example Harry gives is a college student who’s dissatisfied with his school’s curriculum. An Indirect Alternative would be to circulate a petition around campus or to lobby the school’s board of directors to implement your change. Direct Alternatives would be to change schools or study the missing subjects on the side.

It’s not that there’s necessarily anything wrong with trying to improve the world or with wanting to be apart of a movement that‘s bigger than yourself; it’s that you should be consciously aware that you don’t have to do that to get what you want out of life – if you do it anyway, it should be for other reasons.

Harry’s example also illustrates the permanence of involvement in social or political movements. Let’s suppose our student decides to use an Indirect Alternative, working to persuade others that what he wants is right – and he succeeds. Will that be the end of it?

Probably not. Others probably liked the curriculum as it was; while still others also wanted it changed – but to what they wanted. Do you think they’ll just roll over and accept the changes? If anything, his success will show them that they, too, can change things. Our student has just unwittingly enlisted himself in a battle that won’t end until he graduates (and even then it won’t end, although it won’t be his problem anymore).

As another example, consider the abortion debate. Forty years ago, many pro-choice people probably worked for their cause with the vague notion that, if they succeeded, it would be V-J Day for them and they could quit and go back to their regular lives. But they found out quickly that their opponents weren’t giving up, so they’ve had to spend 35 years safeguarding their victory. Today, many pro-lifers probably toil under the same mistaken notion of chasing their phantom V-J Day.

Also stop to consider the issue mathematically. For example, in a group of 100 people, you contribute 1% to the total if everyone works equally hard, which of course they won’t. If you do less than the others, you contribute even less than 1%, so your efforts are statistically meaningless; if you do more, your efforts are subsidizing the slackers – but you’ll still have to share the reward with them.

Again, the point isn’t necessarily that you shouldn’t fight for causes bigger than yourself if you believe in them that much and it gives you some sense of joy or accomplishment; the point is you should be consciously aware that you don’t have to do that to get what you want, that there are easier, much more direct ways to keep the issue from affecting you adversely, whichever side you’re on, that you don’t have to spend your life fighting for or against something that’s never going away.

Conclusion

MemoryCoin is suffering from the group trap by paying salaries to elected candidates and those casting the votes will tend to vote for people that promise them the moon only to find out that after being elected they given the profits to their cronies. 

Adam, I suggest you keep this 'group trap' in mind when your proposals call for voting to resolve disputes or make decisions.  You are right, that paying in advance for the promise of work is terrible.   Imagine if politicians had to cast all of their votes BEFORE they were elected?   Imagine if they had to do all the work, attend all of the meetings, etc, and only IF the people like the product produced do they get 'elected' and their positions ratified. 



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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline AdamBLevine

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 If the only price is a project you believe in, are you willing to put all your how about just 75% MMC into development bounties paid to other developers in exchange for a guarantee you'll be able to guide the coin as you see fit?  Somehow I think the speculative upside has your attention too.

It would be great if you addressed the parts that actually matter instead of just responding to semantics.



Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?

« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 05:17:58 pm by AdamBLevine »
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Offline FreeTrade

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When I'm removed as CEO, as will happen sooner or later, I'll have to decide carefully whether its worth my while volunteering efforts in an emeritus role. It'll depend on the new CEO and team and whether they're leading in the right direction. That's the price - a project that I believe in.
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline AdamBLevine

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Also, I could not be involved as CEO since FreeTrade has said he would quit developing if he didn't agree with what the new CEO was doing.  I am not a developer nor do I want to manage developers for this project, so this fact alone makes it impossible to devote time to Memorycoin.   Free trade already shared what happens when he decides to stop developing a project.


I didn't 'crash' MemoryCoin 1. Don't believe everything you read on a forum. The shareholders of MemoryCoin 1 sacked me and the coin withered because it didn't have a dev. I explained the situation to the Bter exchange and recommended they suspend trading for a short time while the news was absorbed. They didn't want to continue with a coin with no dev support and halted trading altogether.

Some coins have a model where a benevolent dev works for free indefinitely on a coin. I don't think that's a sustainable model capable of major growth, and it's not the model here - if that's what you want, there are plenty of coins like that. The MemoryCoin model is development and promotion are paid for through slightly higher inflation, and the shareholders get to vote on who gets paid.


Turns out we've seen this movie before, if FreeTrade walks he won't go quietly into the night.
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Bottom line is you have LOTS of MMC, and it should be enough that you should *WANT* to develop this coin you've now initiated twice. This should be true even if you get voted out of the position to have 1% of the total money supply emptied in your pocket every block because you have taken so much pay in advance for work you have not done.

Given this conversation so far I don't expect a real answer but maybe you'll surprise me - Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?
   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?

Adam, you are so right about so many things, and I hope more and more people will start to understand what FreeTrade is really doing here.
Why don't you run for CEO? You would get my votes and many more for sure. We already have a good new CMO on the way (I hope) so a decent guy in the CEO seat as well would be a big improvement.

If I ran for the position I would be 100% outsourcing the work.  Literally just showing up to judge the submissions and look over community feedback.   

Although you wouldn't know it from my recent spurt of posting activity, I have way more projects than time.   It would be a win for Memorycoin to have someone high profile as CEO, but given the unknowns about how much the creator decided to secretly pre-mine I don't see this coin having much future.   Suddenly honoring protoshares for only 1% makes sense, it was a cheap way to premine and not be able to tell how much went to him since it's mixed in with all the PTS data. 
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline MegaFarmer

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Bottom line is you have LOTS of MMC, and it should be enough that you should *WANT* to develop this coin you've now initiated twice. This should be true even if you get voted out of the position to have 1% of the total money supply emptied in your pocket every block because you have taken so much pay in advance for work you have not done.

Given this conversation so far I don't expect a real answer but maybe you'll surprise me - Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?
   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?

Adam, you are so right about so many things, and I hope more and more people will start to understand what FreeTrade is really doing here.
Why don't you run for CEO? You would get my votes and many more for sure. We already have a good new CMO on the way (I hope) so a decent guy in the CEO seat as well would be a big improvement.

Offline AdamBLevine

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You're totally right - How many MMC were assigned to addresses you directly or indirectly control, in the genesis block?    I believe you are the only one who can answer this and it seems like a vitally important transparency issue given this directly impacts voting and you've already shown that you've got no problem voting with a block of 40k because heck, didn't think it would be a conflict of interest to vote for yourself when you gave yourself coins for free!

That's been pointed out to above, acknowledged as a mistake and corrected. Its disappointing that you just repeat it without acknowledging the steps taken to correct it.  As for specific balances, I'm not getting into that, because it would never end, and I'm entitled to the same privacy as any other shareholders. I suggest you track down satoshi and ask him the same question.

So there is no amount of money that would keep you developing a day longer than you feel obligated to by the stream of freshly issued MMC flowing into your account (1% of the money supply) if you disagree with something the person who replaces you does.

I'd expect to disagree with lots of things, but overall direction is the important thing.

That's a pretty sweet deal, you work on it until someone kicks you out of the job then walk away with the sucker who replaced you doing all the work and you just disappear into the sunset with all the MMC you could grab from the premine and salary firehose.   

Will he be a sucker? I thought you said he would be heavily over-compensated. Make up your mind. I hope that everyone who gets involved with the coin does well out of it as we achieve the aims set forth in the manifesto.

Bottom line is you have LOTS of MMC, and it should be enough that you should *WANT* to develop this coin you've now initiated twice. This should be true even if you get voted out of the position to have 1% of the total money supply emptied in your pocket every block because you have taken so much pay in advance for work you have not done.

Given this conversation so far I don't expect a real answer but maybe you'll surprise me - Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?
   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?

If you look at the timestamp on the edit, you'll notice I removed the reference to the MMC you used to vote for yourself before you posted a response.  With that said, just because you acknowledged you were doing something you shouldn't have doesn't make that an off-limits topic.  You are the Founder and CEO of a community focused project that already demonstrated a willingness to put your finger on the scale to serve your interests, you basically said "Whoops, shouldn't have done that" without explaining why you did it.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

emre

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Will let you know my address and post a candidacy thread, telling the world who I am and why I'm good for the job, once I have it.
Thank you

nice! it's good to see more people want to get involved to development of the currency.

waiting for your candidacy thread.

Offline itsik78

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I see that the CMO has been fired and I see this as a great step as he really didn't do anything other than a 30 links HTML site (and got paid around 5000 MMCs for that which is quite enough for 30 minutes work).
Any good candidates out there or should I offer myself for the job (with the 5 man team idea)?
I plan on marketing the coin in forums, offering it to exchanges and maintaining a new site, in case the old one is removed.
Most importantly, I plan to use most of the salary money for bounties for (reputable) bloggers and tech sites to write about the coin.
What I do not plan is sitting on the golden egg of this salary and doing the minimal work required for my own profit.
Please let me know within the hour before I offer myself.

Thank you

Candidates are listed here -
http://memorycoin.org/candidates/

As you see, we haven't had a lot of competition for CMO - I think it's because we're more of a technical community at the moment. I'm certainly happy to list your candidacy, although I'm a little worried you might just be trying to prove your point that it is possible to get elected with big promises and fail to deliver with no sanction other than the sack. I think the community would want to see results pretty quickly to trust you, and it would be helpful if you had any kind of track record to point to.

With regard to the previous CMO destroying his website out of spite - I doubt that would happen . . it's an asset for him and previous C*O's have an interest to see the coin succeed, not fail.
As I said, I definitely do not want to sit on the golden egg doing nothing as the community will sack me very quickly (now that everyone has awakened that a salary needs to be worked for).
I will create an MVTEcmo address and send it to you for listing.
As I said, I don't intend to take the salary only for myself and hope to give out BIG bounties and salaries for colleagues in the marketing division.
Will let you know my address and post a candidacy thread, telling the world who I am and why I'm good for the job, once I have it.
Thank you

Offline FreeTrade

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I see that the CMO has been fired and I see this as a great step as he really didn't do anything other than a 30 links HTML site (and got paid around 5000 MMCs for that which is quite enough for 30 minutes work).
Any good candidates out there or should I offer myself for the job (with the 5 man team idea)?
I plan on marketing the coin in forums, offering it to exchanges and maintaining a new site, in case the old one is removed.
Most importantly, I plan to use most of the salary money for bounties for (reputable) bloggers and tech sites to write about the coin.
What I do not plan is sitting on the golden egg of this salary and doing the minimal work required for my own profit.
Please let me know within the hour before I offer myself.

Thank you

Candidates are listed here -
http://memorycoin.org/candidates/

As you see, we haven't had a lot of competition for CMO - I think it's because we're more of a technical community at the moment. I'm certainly happy to list your candidacy, although I'm a little worried you might just be trying to prove your point that it is possible to get elected with big promises and fail to deliver with no sanction other than the sack. I think the community would want to see results pretty quickly to trust you, and it would be helpful if you had any kind of track record to point to.

With regard to the previous CMO destroying his website out of spite - I doubt that would happen . . it's an asset for him and previous C*O's have an interest to see the coin succeed, not fail.
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline itsik78

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I see that the CMO has been fired and I see this as a great step as he really didn't do anything other than a 30 links HTML site (and got paid around 5000 MMCs for that which is quite enough for 30 minutes work).
Any good candidates out there or should I offer myself for the job (with the 5 man team idea)?
I plan on marketing the coin in forums, offering it to exchanges and maintaining a new site, in case the old one is removed.
Most importantly, I plan to use most of the salary money for bounties for (reputable) bloggers and tech sites to write about the coin.
What I do not plan is sitting on the golden egg of this salary and doing the minimal work required for my own profit.
Please let me know within the hour before I offer myself.

Thank you

« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 08:07:54 am by itsik78 »

Offline FreeTrade

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That is interfering if I ever heard of such a thing.  How long did you wait from being ousted to contacting Bter? Did you offer to work on contract on an as needed basis? I don't know these things as I was not apart of memorycoin 1.  With out these answers, it seems like you couldn't have her so you made sure no one could.

It was quite proper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_halt

Trading halts usually occur when a publicly traded company is going to release significant news about itself. The halt in trading for the affected security gives investors time to review the news and assess its impact. Another situation in which a trading halt might occur is when the exchange is uncertain "whether the security continues to meet the market’s listing standards." [1]
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline NewMine

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Quote
I didn't 'crash' MemoryCoin 1

Quote
I explained the situation to the Bter exchange and recommended they suspend trading for a short time while the news was absorbed. They didn't want to continue with a coin with no dev support and halted trading altogether.

That is interfering if I ever heard of such a thing.  How long did you wait from being ousted to contacting Bter? Did you offer to work on contract on an as needed basis? I don't know these things as I was not apart of memorycoin 1.  With out these answers, it seems like you couldn't have her so you made sure no one could. 

Offline FreeTrade

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You're totally right - How many MMC were assigned to addresses you directly or indirectly control, in the genesis block?    I believe you are the only one who can answer this and it seems like a vitally important transparency issue given this directly impacts voting and you've already shown that you've got no problem voting with a block of 40k because heck, didn't think it would be a conflict of interest to vote for yourself when you gave yourself coins for free!

That's been pointed out to above, acknowledged as a mistake and corrected. Its disappointing that you just repeat it without acknowledging the steps taken to correct it.  As for specific balances, I'm not getting into that, because it would never end, and I'm entitled to the same privacy as any other shareholders. I suggest you track down satoshi and ask him the same question.

So there is no amount of money that would keep you developing a day longer than you feel obligated to by the stream of freshly issued MMC flowing into your account (1% of the money supply) if you disagree with something the person who replaces you does.

I'd expect to disagree with lots of things, but overall direction is the important thing.

That's a pretty sweet deal, you work on it until someone kicks you out of the job then walk away with the sucker who replaced you doing all the work and you just disappear into the sunset with all the MMC you could grab from the premine and salary firehose.   

Will he be a sucker? I thought you said he would be heavily over-compensated. Make up your mind. I hope that everyone who gets involved with the coin does well out of it as we achieve the aims set forth in the manifesto.
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline AdamBLevine

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Again, don't believe everything you read in an internet forum. Sure I have coins from MC1 and the ProtoShares distribution, but it's not hundreds of thousands of coins - suggest you check your sources before repeating them.

You're totally right - How many MMC were assigned to addresses you directly or indirectly control, in the genesis block?    I believe you are the only one who can answer this and it seems like a vitally important transparency issue given this directly impacts voting

When I'm removed as CEO, as will happen sooner or later, I'll have to decide carefully whether its worth my while volunteering efforts in an emeritus role. It'll depend on the new CEO and team and whether they're leading in the right direction. That's the price - a project that I believe in.
So there is no amount of money that would keep you developing a day longer than you feel obligated to by the stream of freshly issued MMC flowing into your account (1% of the money supply) if you disagree with something the person who replaces you does.

That's a pretty sweet deal, you work on it until someone kicks you out of the job then walk away with the sucker who replaced you doing all the work and you just disappear into the sunset with all the MMC you could grab from the premine and salary firehose.   

So, you don't get that acting in a way that is obviously self-serving to the point of being detrimental to the project and having a completely mercenary attitude about the whole thing you reveal that the project isn't about anything other than making you wealthy in a short period of time.   People have *lots* of options, so things like this just aren't selected over the long term.   Again, this would be something a developer who actually wanted a long term project would care about but you seem to just float along.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 05:09:22 am by AdamBLevine »
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Offline FreeTrade

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You gave yourself hundreds of thousands of coins and you can't be bothered to develop without a constant stream of pay?

Again, don't believe everything you read in an internet forum. Sure I have coins from MC1 and the ProtoShares distribution, but it's not hundreds of thousands of coins - suggest you check your sources before repeating them.


Given that you created Memorycoin from a modified version of Protoshares, something you were paid by an outside company to create - exactly how much time did it take you to adapt protoshares to Memorycoin 2?    Lets assume a month of nothing but working on that conversion full time.   How much is your time worth that your pre-mine is not enough to buy even six months of support from you, especially since any successes you have result in that exponential multiplier?

I'm sure you've done the math, what is the dollar based salary for a year of support from you to maintain this thing you've now created twice.   You don't work for free, so tell us what the price is.

When I'm removed as CEO, as will happen sooner or later, I'll have to decide carefully whether its worth my while volunteering efforts in an emeritus role. It'll depend on the new CEO and team and whether they're leading in the right direction. That's the price - a project that I believe in.
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Offline NewMine

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Some coins have a model where a benevolent dev works for free indefinitely on a coin. I don't think that's a sustainable model capable of major growth, and it's not the model here - if that's what you want, there are plenty of coins like that. The MemoryCoin model is development and promotion are paid for through slightly higher inflation, and the shareholders get to vote on who gets paid.


You gave yourself hundreds of thousands of coins and you can't be bothered to develop without a constant stream of pay?

Given that you created Memorycoin from a modified version of Protoshares, something you were paid by an outside company to create - exactly how much time did it take you to adapt protoshares to Memorycoin 2?    Lets assume a month of nothing but working on that conversion full time.   How much is your time worth that your pre-mine is not enough to buy even six months of support from you, especially since any successes you have result in that exponential multiplier?

I'm sure you've done the math, what is the dollar based salary for a year of support from you to maintain this thing you've now created twice.   You don't work for free, so tell us what the price is.

I am curious too. Clear the air.



Offline AdamBLevine

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Some coins have a model where a benevolent dev works for free indefinitely on a coin. I don't think that's a sustainable model capable of major growth, and it's not the model here - if that's what you want, there are plenty of coins like that. The MemoryCoin model is development and promotion are paid for through slightly higher inflation, and the shareholders get to vote on who gets paid.


You gave yourself hundreds of thousands of coins and you can't be bothered to develop without a constant stream of pay?

Given that you created Memorycoin from a modified version of Protoshares, something you were paid by an outside company to create - exactly how much time did it take you to adapt protoshares to Memorycoin 2?    Lets assume a month of nothing but working on that conversion full time.   How much is your time worth that your pre-mine is not enough to buy even six months of support from you, especially since any successes you have result in that exponential multiplier?

I'm sure you've done the math, what is the dollar based salary for a year of support from you to maintain this thing you've now created twice.   You don't work for free, so tell us what the price is.
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Offline FreeTrade

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So a lot of questions raised for me overnight -

I didn't 'crash' MemoryCoin 1. Don't believe everything you read on a forum. The shareholders of MemoryCoin 1 sacked me and the coin withered because it didn't have a dev. I explained the situation to the Bter exchange and recommended they suspend trading for a short time while the news was absorbed. They didn't want to continue with a coin with no dev support and halted trading altogether.

Some coins have a model where a benevolent dev works for free indefinitely on a coin. I don't think that's a sustainable model capable of major growth, and it's not the model here - if that's what you want, there are plenty of coins like that. The MemoryCoin model is development and promotion are paid for through slightly higher inflation, and the shareholders get to vote on who gets paid.

MaxPwr is quite mad, but he's a bit ahead of the game in his suggesting that the 'salaries' are used as corporate operating budgets. We're already seeing that with CTO and CSO positions - they're being distributed between a team. I expect that trend to continue as they become more valuable and competition increases. Overall the amount paid in operating budgets is relatively small in comparison to traditional corporations.

Shareholders can't be guaranteed they'll get good value for money from their chosen candidates - the sanction is choose an alternative until value is found.
 
The block explorer isn't reporting balances accurately - seems to report accumulated inputs as the balance without taking into account the outputs. MCF has about 45k coins combined and there is a very clear statement about it here -
http://memorycoin.org/foundation/
It's a fair comment that I should not be using these funds to vote for myself as CEO - I'll change that to vote for an unspendable address.




“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline seraphim

While I can't say anything about the amount of coins FreeTrade is holding, and what he is planning to do with them, I still disagree that the payout for the officers is too high. It is just a question what is being done for the money.
The high reward is thought as an incentive for people to get involved. While it could be enough (just for example) for a professional ad agency to apply as CMO this unfortunately didn't happen yet. But that's neither the fault of FreeTrade nor the other officers.

Compared to other alt coins, MMC already got a lot of infrastructure built around for the short time of its existence. Could be more with better candidates, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the grants.
I believe that FreeTrade thought there'd be a lot more competition for the offices. Seems like the reward is not high enough for professionals to get involved. Reducing the grants to 1/10th wouldn't make that situation better...

It would be hard for any of them to get voted in when FreeTrade appears to have 40k coins worth of votes from the MMC foundation addresses participating in the vote.

Of course I assume that he uses his coins to vote for the best candidate available.
Assuming that address is controlled by him, he just helped to spoil the CMO for now.
according to mmcvotes i see that he voted from his personal address.  I'm just not sure why if he is in control of them that he's using the foundation's coins to vote since it mentions on the foundation's site "To avoid a conflict of interest, MCF does not provide grants or payments to its administrator.".   Isn't it a pretty big conflict of interest that he's using one of them to vote for himself?

As there's no better alternative on the candidates list, and his vote doesn't change anything, I currently don't see a problem with this.
Imo the real problem is the lack of professional candidates, and that only 3-8% of coins are taking part in the voting process.
But there's no one to blame for, so keep on bashing the dev if you need to.
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Offline phrozenspite

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While I can't say anything about the amount of coins FreeTrade is holding, and what he is planning to do with them, I still disagree that the payout for the officers is too high. It is just a question what is being done for the money.
The high reward is thought as an incentive for people to get involved. While it could be enough (just for example) for a professional ad agency to apply as CMO this unfortunately didn't happen yet. But that's neither the fault of FreeTrade nor the other officers.

Compared to other alt coins, MMC already got a lot of infrastructure built around for the short time of its existence. Could be more with better candidates, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the grants.
I believe that FreeTrade thought there'd be a lot more competition for the offices. Seems like the reward is not high enough for professionals to get involved. Reducing the grants to 1/10th wouldn't make that situation better...

It would be hard for any of them to get voted in when FreeTrade appears to have 40k coins worth of votes from the MMC foundation addresses participating in the vote.

Of course I assume that he uses his coins to vote for the best candidate available.
Assuming that address is controlled by him, he just helped to spoil the CMO for now.
according to mmcvotes i see that he voted from his personal address.  I'm just not sure why if he is in control of them that he's using the foundation's coins to vote since it mentions on the foundation's site "To avoid a conflict of interest, MCF does not provide grants or payments to its administrator.".   Isn't it a pretty big conflict of interest that he's using one of them to vote for himself?
supporting Newmine for a fair Memorycoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389386.0

Offline seraphim

While I can't say anything about the amount of coins FreeTrade is holding, and what he is planning to do with them, I still disagree that the payout for the officers is too high. It is just a question what is being done for the money.
The high reward is thought as an incentive for people to get involved. While it could be enough (just for example) for a professional ad agency to apply as CMO this unfortunately didn't happen yet. But that's neither the fault of FreeTrade nor the other officers.

Compared to other alt coins, MMC already got a lot of infrastructure built around for the short time of its existence. Could be more with better candidates, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the grants.
I believe that FreeTrade thought there'd be a lot more competition for the offices. Seems like the reward is not high enough for professionals to get involved. Reducing the grants to 1/10th wouldn't make that situation better...

It would be hard for any of them to get voted in when FreeTrade appears to have 40k coins worth of votes from the MMC foundation addresses participating in the vote.

Of course I assume that he uses his coins to vote for the best candidate available.
Assuming that address is controlled by him, he just helped to spoil the CMO for now.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 02:00:59 am by seraphim »
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Offline phrozenspite

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While I can't say anything about the amount of coins FreeTrade is holding, and what he is planning to do with them, I still disagree that the payout for the officers is too high. It is just a question what is being done for the money.
The high reward is thought as an incentive for people to get involved. While it could be enough (just for example) for a professional ad agency to apply as CMO this unfortunately didn't happen yet. But that's neither the fault of FreeTrade nor the other officers.

Compared to other alt coins, MMC already got a lot of infrastructure built around for the short time of its existence. Could be more with better candidates, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the grants.
I believe that FreeTrade thought there'd be a lot more competition for the offices. Seems like the reward is not high enough for professionals to get involved. Reducing the grants to 1/10th wouldn't make that situation better...

It would be hard for any of them to get voted in when FreeTrade appears to have 40k coins worth of votes from the MMC foundation addresses participating in the vote.
supporting Newmine for a fair Memorycoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389386.0

Offline isaacgoldbourne

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While I can't say anything about the amount of coins FreeTrade is holding, and what he is planning to do with them, I still disagree that the payout for the officers is too high. It is just a question what is being done for the money.
The high reward is thought as an incentive for people to get involved. While it could be enough (just for example) for a professional ad agency to apply as CMO this unfortunately didn't happen yet. But that's neither the fault of FreeTrade nor the other officers.

Compared to other alt coins, MMC already got a lot of infrastructure built around for the short time of its existence. Could be more with better candidates, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the grants.
I believe that FreeTrade thought there'd be a lot more competition for the offices. Seems like the reward is not high enough for professionals to get involved. Reducing the grants to 1/10th wouldn't make that situation better...
Initially a lot of coins are released, this slowly lowers until they are not earning many MMCs. At first it was needed, so that we can get the core infrastructure i.e pools, gambling, block exlporers etc and then it slopes off. In 2 weeks we have more than coins like quark have. Now we just need the value to follow.
MemoryDice now available! https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1886.0
 Vote for me to be CNO of memorycoin if you want these services. Just send 1 satoshi!
CNO: MVTEcno2tbsJWj7AQEyEjgk72j94hbPHFm

Offline seraphim

While I can't say anything about the amount of coins FreeTrade is holding, and what he is planning to do with them, I still disagree that the payout for the officers is too high. It is just a question what is being done for the money.
The high reward is thought as an incentive for people to get involved. While it could be enough (just for example) for a professional ad agency to apply as CMO this unfortunately didn't happen yet. But that's neither the fault of FreeTrade nor the other officers.

Compared to other alt coins, MMC already got a lot of infrastructure built around for the short time of its existence. Could be more with better candidates, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the grants.
I believe that FreeTrade thought there'd be a lot more competition for the offices. Seems like the reward is not high enough for professionals to get involved. Reducing the grants to 1/10th wouldn't make that situation better...
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Offline AdamBLevine

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According to this page: http://memorycoin.org/foundation/
M9rJudKWdiE4dQd2K6DD9bLtkviKwnhNZG is "Clearing" and
MHodpHe3qVMzGKtgcrjwRQdvUTEyaXfHPE is "Main".
These 2 total 250k MMCs
If these don't belong to a person, why the hell are these 2 voting for candidates?
Good point. Who owns that addresses?
well whatever the case, they're amounting to about 45k in votes
and according to the site
MCF is funded through the MemoryCoin grant award system. Its funds are currently administered by the coin’s founder and chief developer, FreeTrade. To avoid a conflict of interest, MCF does not provide grants or payments to its administrator.

So perhaps FreeTrade could answer that for us
Ok, so since there's no "Official" explanation here, I will allow myself to write my speculation:
These wallets, from MMC1, were community wallets to be used for bounties and development.
Since, as Freetrade threatened numerous times in the MMC1 thread linked to by Newmine: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=267522.msg3143884#msg3143884 (for the lazy ones, I'll sum it up: It's something like "If someone takes control of the 'grant' I will dim this coin as a failure and will burn it alive"), something didn't work for his liking, he killed the old coin and created a new one where every "old" coin is equal to a "new" coin.
BUT THAT'S NOT ALL! Since we had a grant which is now useless, who would better take hold of these coins if not the great Freetrade.
So now the situation is that Mr. Freetrade has something between 300,000 - 400,000 coins (and probably more, depending on the amount of Protoshares he has + the amount he got from holding 2 positions for almost a month in MMC2), where 250k of them should have been part of a bounty wallet and definitely not owned by him.
That's my assumption.
This coin is a money generator for Mr. Freetrade and (a far smaller one, but still huge) the other officers.
Can't wait for it to be traded on Cryptsy, where I will sell my 7600 coins for ~7.6 Bitcoins and move on.

Good luck to you all.

That's about my read of the situation too,  lacking information from the people involved.  I hope FreeTrade can shed some light, and I hope this isn't something that's only a gaping question to just a few of us. 
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Offline itsik78

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According to this page: http://memorycoin.org/foundation/
M9rJudKWdiE4dQd2K6DD9bLtkviKwnhNZG is "Clearing" and
MHodpHe3qVMzGKtgcrjwRQdvUTEyaXfHPE is "Main".
These 2 total 250k MMCs
If these don't belong to a person, why the hell are these 2 voting for candidates?
Good point. Who owns that addresses?
well whatever the case, they're amounting to about 45k in votes
and according to the site
MCF is funded through the MemoryCoin grant award system. Its funds are currently administered by the coin’s founder and chief developer, FreeTrade. To avoid a conflict of interest, MCF does not provide grants or payments to its administrator.

So perhaps FreeTrade could answer that for us
Ok, so since there's no "Official" explanation here, I will allow myself to write my speculation:
These wallets, from MMC1, were community wallets to be used for bounties and development.
Since, as Freetrade threatened numerous times in the MMC1 thread linked to by Newmine: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=267522.msg3143884#msg3143884 (for the lazy ones, I'll sum it up: It's something like "If someone takes control of the 'grant' I will dim this coin as a failure and will burn it alive"), something didn't work for his liking, he killed the old coin and created a new one where every "old" coin is equal to a "new" coin.
BUT THAT'S NOT ALL! Since we had a grant which is now useless, who would better take hold of these coins if not the great Freetrade.
So now the situation is that Mr. Freetrade has something between 300,000 - 400,000 coins (and probably more, depending on the amount of Protoshares he has + the amount he got from holding 2 positions for almost a month in MMC2), where 250k of them should have been part of a bounty wallet and definitely not owned by him.
That's my assumption.
This coin is a money generator for Mr. Freetrade and (a far smaller one, but still huge) the other officers.
Can't wait for it to be traded on Cryptsy, where I will sell my 7600 coins for ~7.6 Bitcoins and move on.

Good luck to you all.

Offline phrozenspite

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According to this page: http://memorycoin.org/foundation/
M9rJudKWdiE4dQd2K6DD9bLtkviKwnhNZG is "Clearing" and
MHodpHe3qVMzGKtgcrjwRQdvUTEyaXfHPE is "Main".
These 2 total 250k MMCs
If these don't belong to a person, why the hell are these 2 voting for candidates?
Good point. Who owns that addresses?
well whatever the case, they're amounting to about 45k in votes
and according to the site
MCF is funded through the MemoryCoin grant award system. Its funds are currently administered by the coin’s founder and chief developer, FreeTrade. To avoid a conflict of interest, MCF does not provide grants or payments to its administrator.

So perhaps FreeTrade could answer that for us
supporting Newmine for a fair Memorycoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389386.0

Offline 5chdn

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According to this page: http://memorycoin.org/foundation/
M9rJudKWdiE4dQd2K6DD9bLtkviKwnhNZG is "Clearing" and
MHodpHe3qVMzGKtgcrjwRQdvUTEyaXfHPE is "Main".
These 2 total 250k MMCs
If these don't belong to a person, why the hell are these 2 voting for candidates?
Good point. Who owns that addresses?

Offline AdamBLevine

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Are we on MemorycoinTalk?

Nope.   Lots of people here have MMC and not many of them bought it.

I understand why Miners want to mine something that is profitable - MMC Makes sense for them

I understand why ground-level adopters who want something they got for cheap to be valued at more than what they paid - MMC makes sense for them.

I understand why FreeTrade wants this, he has a ton of MMC from the last version and basically just needed to launch this to give it an initial valuation, at which point he comes out with a big financial win no matter what.  Who cares if you only get .00005BTC per coin when you give them to yourself for free, even at that price that 250,000MMC is worth more than 10kUSD for... exactly what?     Obviously it's better for Freetrade if it goes to .01BTC because then that $10k becomes $2.5 million, but the point is that even now if you got something for free that's a pretty good deal.  Heads you win, tails you win more.

So why does anybody else want to use MMC, and why does devoting 5% of the total money supply to five positions of dubious value as a salary paid in advance for work that will be done in the future.


I believe the president of the US makes about 400k per year for what is inarguably a more than full time job.  Compared to the money supply of the US (M1) at 3109895 million USD or 310,989,500,000.   If we paid the president the same way Memorycoin pays its executive board, the presidents salary would be 3,109,895,000 over a long period of time.  There have been what, 44 presidencies?  That brings the presidential salary under a MMC paradigm to $70,679,431 each.  This is obviously simplified.

Point is, the numbers are wrong wrong wrong, there is no oversight or ability to have meaningful oversight, and there is no actual reason to do anything other than collect your MMC paycheck and do the minimal work neccesary.  If MMC succeeds, you win big.  If MMC fails, didn't cost you anything but convincing some folks who desperately want to believe your promises about making the thing they own some of worth more.

Results are all that matter, so long as your system picks who won the prize before the game even starts means all the important work happens before the beginning of the game.   I'm all in favor of innovation, and named positions that are votable makes a ton of sense to me... But this coin sadly does not.   I keep asking why anyone would want to hold this coin if they don't get it for cheap or free, still waiting for an answer on that.
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emre

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If anything kills MMC it'll be the way MMC is set up.


I realy don't get it. you imply people who invested in mmc didn't read the structure of mmc before investing it. Voting system and salaries is one of the biggest difference of mmc. You should read the rules first if you put money/effort on something.

Offline AdamBLevine

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I just wanted to point out that a lot of people seem to not care about what's getting done, while they complain that the cXo get too many coins.

You think too naive :)

It's not about that cXo's deserve the salary they get or the justice. If that was the case, there are unspendable addresses to vote.

it's about beeing greedy and thinking in short-term. compromising these positions will break mmc sadly. And I don't really understand why actually mmc holders want to kill mmc in the first place?

If anything kills MMC it'll be the way MMC is set up.  The community is trying to deal with the decision that was made to give department-level budgets as personal salary at initial prices with no accountability or expectation for how those funds are used.

The fact that the cXo are such large recipients of new money supply just emphasizes that the people building this coin did not believe it would be valuable or else they wouldn't allocate 1% of the TOTAL MONEY SUPPLY to executive positions.   
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emre

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I just wanted to point out that a lot of people seem to not care about what's getting done, while they complain that the cXo get too many coins.

You think too naive :)

It's not about that cXos deserve the salary they get or the justice. If that was the case, there are unspendable addresses to vote.

it's about beeing greedy and thinking in short-term. compromising these positions will kill mmc sadly. And I don't really understand why actually mmc holders want to kill mmc in the first place.






« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 06:26:59 pm by emre »

Offline itsik78

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The problem is that people in cXo positions have a no-lose situation.  Maybe the social contract for Memorycoin should be you use 80% as your operating budget and 20% as your take-home pay, but right now anyone who has achieved that role does so with the support of a few large voters, and even at the just-launched-no-uses price it has now are taking home 100k per year, which just like bitcoin will multiply up if they are successful.   But given that they are already recieving 100k per year at current prices, why not collect the 100k then do the minimal amount of work to keep the role (look busy), and by the time somebody figures out you're spending all your time doing something else who cares?  Free money for just enough work to keep up appearances.


If you want people to look at the situation and say "Yeah, that seems to make sense" you should cut all the numbers by 90% and make the position one only people who are really motivated and believe in the coin to take the job.  If they are successful and the price targets of .01btc are hit, that's more than 200 Bitcoins per year.  If Memorycoin can reach .1 that's 2000BTC per year.


I dislike this current model for the same reason I hated JR Willets putting like 40% of the funding (and getting 40% of the tokens) from the Mastercoin fundraiser.  Since at the time he was going to be paid from those raised funds, it meant he was basically being the biggest stakeholder by taking money out of one of his pockets and putting it into another.   In order for people to work, they need to have skin in the game and that means a downside comes paired with the upside instead of only upside as I see in this circumstance.

Best of luck ;)
+1
I'll shut up and let you do the talking.
Still hoping for a reply on my recent query ^^

Offline AdamBLevine

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The problem is that people in cXo positions have a no-lose situation.  Maybe the social contract for Memorycoin should be you use 80% as your operating budget and 20% as your take-home pay, but right now anyone who has achieved that role does so with the support of a few large voters, and even at the just-launched-no-uses price it has now are taking home 100k per year, which just like bitcoin will multiply up if they are successful.   But given that they are already recieving 100k per year at current prices, why not collect the 100k then do the minimal amount of work to keep the role (look busy), and by the time somebody figures out you're spending all your time doing something else who cares?  Free money for just enough work to keep up appearances.


If you want people to look at the situation and say "Yeah, that seems to make sense" you should cut all the numbers by 90% and make the position one only people who are really motivated and believe in the coin to take the job.  If they are successful and the price targets of .01btc are hit, that's more than 200 Bitcoins per year.  If Memorycoin can reach .1 that's 2000BTC per year.


I dislike this current model for the same reason I hated JR Willets putting like 40% of the funding (and getting 40% of the tokens) from the Mastercoin fundraiser.  Since at the time he was going to be paid from those raised funds, it meant he was basically being the biggest stakeholder by taking money out of one of his pockets and putting it into another.   In order for people to work, they need to have skin in the game and that means a downside comes paired with the upside instead of only upside as I see in this circumstance.

Best of luck ;)
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline itsik78

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Seraphim, I agree that paying this amount to a TEAM (of >= 5 people) is a great idea and I applaud you for that.
I'm sorry if I offended you and hope you're using the salary well.

On another note.
I need to understand something here as it puzzles me...
According to this page: http://memorycoin.org/foundation/
M9rJudKWdiE4dQd2K6DD9bLtkviKwnhNZG is "Clearing" and
MHodpHe3qVMzGKtgcrjwRQdvUTEyaXfHPE is "Main".
These 2 total 250k MMCs
If these don't belong to a person, why the hell are these 2 voting for candidates?
Either I'm missing something here or something really wrong is going on.


Offline seraphim

No, that's nothing we should discuss here ;-) I just wanted to point out that a lot of people seem to not care about what's getting done, while they complain that the cXo get too many coins.
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emre

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Quote
The shortly-compromised CNO is one of the examples of hard-working officers, and definitely not the one who should have been or should be kicked first.

yeah, that's a good idea. let's discuss who should be kicked first.

this all thread is nonsense. if the majority of the people decide to vote for a chain of happiness instead of a real candidate, that's okay for me.  consequences of this will be terrible but who cares, that's the bad thing about voting system in the first place. you can't stop the majority even if they do it wrong.

these people just don't want to see these coins paid to anyone. It's not about cXo's doing something good or bad for the coin/community. there is a money oppurtunity in here, and they just want to grab it. short-term money always feels good.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 05:39:03 pm by emre »

Offline seraphim

While I agree that the payout is pretty high, I think it's pretty unfair to lump together the efforts of all candidates.

Repeating that support does nothing but hanging around on the forums all the time doesn't come up with the things we really do - most work is done on memorycoin.org at the moment, as we want to reach a greater audience than forum people.
I applied to share the incoming coins, so more work could get done than a single person would ever be able to do. This works out pretty well for now.

The shortly-compromised CNO is one of the examples of hard-working officers, and definitely not the one who should have been or should be kicked first.

Maybe the other officers will also use parts of the income to find still more ways to help MMC getting forward, maybe others have to apply for that, or it will go on like it is, I don't know. But please consider having a closer look at what's happening before you support people who just negate other's efforts.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 05:27:55 pm by seraphim »
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Whenever you pay for work before the work is done, you're paying for time not work.   If you pay for time, you need a mechanism to make sure the time you're paying for is being used wisely.

With Memorycoin you don't have any of those things, people just make a pitch then get paid until someone realizes they're not worth the money and kicks them out.     

If all of the positions equaled maybe 0.1% of the money supply over the life of the coin that might be acceptable, but 1% to each position is crazy.   It makes the coin look worse not better.


But yeah, totally agree with Itsik - Saying "That's not fair!" when someone uses a tactic that is disadvantageous to you and trying to get them kicked out of the game doesn't actually mean the tactic is against the rules.    Near I can tell, this guy has made a pretty compelling offer that assuages some of my personal concerns that the positions are paid much too well, especially since all those numbers assume the current price of Memorycoin and Memorycoin proponants seem to think it will go to .01BTC/ea.   Even at these prices the positions are overpaid, any increases in value increase the value already earned exponentially.      If the price growing exponentially is the desired outcome, these positions should be paid an amount that would not be considered well paid if MMC does poorly but would be considered well paid if MMC does well and the value of the pay appreciates.

FreeTrade, did your networth increase through the memorycoin launch and subsequent blowup?  Did it increase through launching this latest version of the coin and giving yourself credit for the coins you had in the earlier currency it appears you crashed?
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline itsik78

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Give newmine all the votes he wants until he becomes CEO, CTO, CNO...etc

People trust a guy that has not contributed anything to memorycoin and think he's going to give everyone a equal share of  coins.

Go on elect him for all positions then come back when he disappears with a 100,000$ worth of Coins and wine like little bitches.

Personally if he's elected these positions dumping all of coins and moving on. Price right now is extremely high compared to what it will be when newmine takes over.

Seeing MMC 3.0 over the horizon....

Does an HTML site with 30 links justify a $1500 weekly payment? It doesn't even justify a $300 weekly payment, but that's what the guy will get.
Does answering questions in a forum for about 1-2 hours a day justify a $1500 weekly payment? Same point.
Does losing the daily income as the coin's founder mean that it should be dumped and killed to make way to MMC 3? Nope, but that's what I understand happened to MMC1...
Etc. for all titles.

Anyway, since these elections are just as democratic as the elections in Iran (FreeTrade being khamenei with full power as votes are wallet-size-propertional and you have to assume a huge wallet from holding 2 positions for a month + Premine) I don't see Newmine's plan working anyway.

Sorry, but 20% of the current payment is what was supposed to be paid out to each of he officers


Offline smokim11

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Give newmine all the votes he wants until he becomes CEO, CTO, CNO...etc

People trust a guy that has not contributed anything to memorycoin and think he's going to give everyone a equal share of  coins.

Go on elect him for all positions then come back when he disappears with a 100,000$ worth of Coins and wine like little bitches.

Personally if he's elected these positions dumping all of coins and moving on. Price right now is extremely high compared to what it will be when newmine takes over.

Seeing MMC 3.0 over the horizon....
If I helped you and want to show your appreciation donate any amount:
Pjem2V2FDPGZa6yAvpL2fN5yZKXYUNLSv5

Offline itsik78

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You & Fasan just made me vote for Newman.
If he really pays out 20% to the candidate, I think it's a great idea.
If he stops doing it, I will vote for the void-vote address.

Newmine, 7.5k votes coming your way in 10 minutes.



Offline MaxPWR

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Nope - a "ban" is perfectly acceptable network behavior...if you think separately about the address / username and the action / person.  It's not really anything  on the person, just on the actions of the address / username...it's network maintenance on problematic ports.

The user is free to modify his behavior / message / promises.  But his message is still out there in its original form unmodified...it is old, stale, and expired.  We can ask him to "rebroadcast" his new message (e.g., transferring to new voting address / etc).

Think about it the other way - what if a "good service" at an address is simply expired?  What if it is a dead address?  Shouldn't we warn people that it is an outdated message?

Really, if we "ban" problematic addresses...a user can just perform the same action from a different address.  If he really wanted to...he could create a new username / etc.  Or, the user could perform modified behavior at a different address and be welcomed back into the community...

And, it's a voluntary opinion from an officer which the community supports.  It does not even have to be from all officers. 

Anyone can say "this address is my enemy.  I shall not support this address."  Means absolutely nothing to the rest of us.  The Officers have made rumblings in the forums that they do not like that behavior.  Well, go find that user, engage that user, and ask him to modify his behavior (e.g., move funds from that voting address to new voting addresses and "re-campaign").

We are not a free-for-all community. If so, what is the point of selection and ranking in MMC?  We are a self-regulating community to provide trust among members.  We investigate, evaluate, and modify as the community requests.








 


 
You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.

PWR UP: MAXVTEoYhDfWJjvkNm2ZmUhHpYbsPYuybg

Offline FreeTrade

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I think we best let the market deal with this. When bad candidates are elected, the price of the coin will fall, when good candidates are elected the price of the coin will rise.

I think what we are dealing with is just irrationality. Nothing can survive prolonged and stubborn stupidity, but my hope is that they'll wise up as they see the market results of their actions.
 
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline AdamBLevine

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>>sudo deluser Newmine MMC
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.
.
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-----------For Immediate Release---------------

MaxPWR requests that MemoryCoin Officers drop the banhammer on User Newmine and his supporters.

Each Officer shall immediately develop a list of all known accounts and supporters of User Newmine.  Officer accounts shall not trade with any associated addresses of User Newmine.  Officers accounts shall not trade with supporters of User Newmine until votes are removed for any associated addresses of User Newmine.

If elected CEO, MaxPWR shall use any accumulated funds to place a bounty for such blacklist services:

MVTEceoug2AiLLsoV1Ej5VxqfmZ6bvwDH5

In addition, donations for such efforts are being accepted at Max's Evil Lab:

MVTEchaRu6ReuT2a9ANFWbgWyjtw3pJ8ST

http://pwrcoin.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

This will end well.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline FaSan

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because banning and blacklisting people for participating is less damaging than redistributing coins?  nice try

I had not read the thread that you have in your sign :

Quote
supporting Newmine for a fair Memorycoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389386.0


Interesting reading, now it's clean  :)



FaSan

Offline phrozenspite

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because banning and blacklisting people for participating is less damaging than redistributing coins?  nice try
supporting Newmine for a fair Memorycoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389386.0

Offline FaSan

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Newmine as send me two time the 20% of his CNO earning. I don't know why, and I don't know why only two time  :D :D :D

Offline isaacgoldbourne

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Banning a party is not proper democracy, people can vote for who they want to do what they want. I think he had the wrong idea but thats not my choice to make.
MemoryDice now available! https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1886.0
 Vote for me to be CNO of memorycoin if you want these services. Just send 1 satoshi!
CNO: MVTEcno2tbsJWj7AQEyEjgk72j94hbPHFm

Offline MaxPWR

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>>sudo deluser Newmine MMC
.
.
.
.
.
-----------For Immediate Release---------------

MaxPWR requests that MemoryCoin Officers drop the banhammer on User Newmine and his supporters.

Each Officer shall immediately develop a list of all known accounts and supporters of User Newmine.  Officer accounts shall not trade with any associated addresses of User Newmine.  Officers accounts shall not trade with supporters of User Newmine until votes are removed for any associated addresses of User Newmine.

If elected CEO, MaxPWR shall use any accumulated funds to place a bounty for such blacklist services:

MVTEceoug2AiLLsoV1Ej5VxqfmZ6bvwDH5

In addition, donations for such efforts are being accepted at Max's Evil Lab:

MVTEchaRu6ReuT2a9ANFWbgWyjtw3pJ8ST

http://pwrcoin.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html
You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.

PWR UP: MAXVTEoYhDfWJjvkNm2ZmUhHpYbsPYuybg