Author Topic: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?  (Read 3239 times)

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Offline Thom

Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2015, 11:05:19 pm »
I was given moderator status to manage a "Policies and Procedures" section under BitShares 2.0, a former subforum under general discussion that was created prior to the June 8th launch. It was discussed briefly by a very small group of people, it was suggested I be given the ability to moderate that section then suddenly, poof! I was a moderator.

I have no idea where that has been (re)moved to and it doesn't matter.

But or the record I have felt [member=31]fav[/member] has done a marvelous job of moving content around and tidying up the forum, helping to keep things organized. It is an unpaid, thankless job and I have been grateful for his efforts. I actually have my doubts that anyone else would be willing to step up and seriously take on moderator responsibilities at the level fav has.

I see over reactions all around. However the present controversy does raise some red flags and I find that quite disturbing.

I'm not very happy about the way bitsaphire team "maintains" the forum, but at least it is extremely rare to be out of service so I'll give them that much.  Puppies is right though, this is not owned by the community (Isn't it the bitsaphire team who pays for the forum hosting and isn't it CNX that pays bitsaphire to maintain the forum?). Perhaps it should be but it's not.


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Tuck Fheman

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2015, 11:14:09 pm »
- snip -

Fuck it. You win. I'm out.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 05:51:06 am by Tuck Fheman »

Offline lovejoy

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2015, 05:17:32 am »
Forum moderators should be accountable to the community.

They should probably be paid something for their troubles as well.

You get what you pay for, and a paid moderator is less likely to have their own agenda, or feel they must 'get something' in exchange for working for free.

What does that look like?  I don't know, worker proposal?  Luckybit's forum UIA idea?  Subcommittee?

Fav has done a pretty good job overall, imo, but everyone has their weaknesses, and people don't usually come to the discussion except with daggers when someone is attacking them with sarcastic straw-man character assassination, ahem... tuck.  I've been on the receiving end of that kind of campaign on the forums here, and I don't feel it's remotely helpful.  You harm your own cause, and you contribute to greater conflict, when you refuse to communicate in a non-hostile manner.  By the sound of it, fav could be communicating better as well.  Tuck and Fav, you two are like fire and ice.

I hope everyone here realizes we're not competing against each other, except in a friendly way. We're all on the same team, or supposed to be.  It's not as if the space isn't large enough for all of us, plus a small army.

Everyone go out for a walk.  Breathe some fresh air.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 05:20:02 am by lovejoy »

Offline fav

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2015, 05:48:04 am »
you guys act like mod position is something everyone desires.

wrong. literally every time we asked for new mods, no one raised their hand. and if you check for our current mods' activities, it's not a job you want to make for long since many are inactive.

good luck with making a popularity contest out of mod voting, I'm sure that will work in your own forums, let me know.
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Offline donkeypong

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2015, 05:51:49 am »
I see no need to make changes. Fav is doing an excellent job.

Offline chryspano

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2015, 09:30:44 am »
I see no need to make changes. Fav is doing an excellent job.

 +5%


Some people are complaining about censorship,  Tuck is against sensorship 10/10  I'm 9/10. Is it possible to have moderated(by default) and unmoderated(by request) threads? e.g When we create a thread, by default it should be a moderated one, but the creator of any thread should have the option to check the "unmoderated thread" checkbox,  moderators will NOT touch those threads because it will be considered censorship(if software can enforce that moderators have no power in those threads thats even better)

Unmoderated threads should have some kind of warning, e.g "BTS Price Speculation Unmoderated Thread" so that some visitor or new member who expects this to be a normal forum like all the others out there isn't surprised and insulted by responses like "[email protected] you, you are an ahole etc".

If you think moderators can't be trusted you will create and participate in unmoderated threads, on the other hand if you don't have a "thick skin" you will stay away from "Unmoderated Threads"





 

Offline fav

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2015, 10:11:26 am »
I see no need to make changes. Fav is doing an excellent job.

 +5%


Some people are complaining about censorship,  Tuck is against sensorship 10/10  I'm 9/10. Is it possible to have moderated(by default) and unmoderated(by request) threads? e.g When we create a thread, by default it should be a moderated one, but the creator of any thread should have the option to check the "unmoderated thread" checkbox,  moderators will NOT touch those threads because it will be considered censorship(if software can enforce that moderators have no power in those threads thats even better)

Unmoderated threads should have some kind of warning, e.g "BTS Price Speculation Unmoderated Thread" so that some visitor or new member who expects this to be a normal forum like all the others out there isn't surprised and insulted by responses like "[email protected] you, you are an ahole etc".

If you think moderators can't be trusted you will create and participate in unmoderated threads, on the other hand if you don't have a "thick skin" you will stay away from "Unmoderated Threads"

unfortunately, we can't have non moderated threads. you know, this forum is hosted in the US, so we have to make sure that there is no illegal content.

and I just don't want new people come in and see a thread full of hate and personal attacks, we are a business after all.
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Offline Akado

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2015, 10:12:50 am »
We should have a forum UIA and whomever earns the most tips in that UIA can become a moderator.

Once again luckybit...these brilliant ideas are why I am addicted to your brain.  You think and daydream like I do about this.  Give people the ability to spread their wings!

and [member=16353]Akado[/member], the problem here is that one person gets to make the decision.  Instead we should have a means by which to disintermediate that power out of one person's hands.  Also, being a forum moderator is a hard job---so mods should enjoy anything that can get the community behind helping them do their jobs to the best of their ability (imho).

I like the idea of colors to mark people (and show them that they are getting close to a ban).  But the big thing for me is the deleting of comments that are "not valuable".  I'll tell you right now as much as I hate tonyk's consistent intent to stomp his boot on faces that I am not (and neither is anyone else) qualified to judge whether his posts may or may not have value in our community.  Restriction of speech is restriction of speech...no real gray lines here imho. :/

I do like some of your ideas though on how to make it easier and better than the current process.  The other cool thing is that just by asking this in the community is that I have someone else who has served as a moderator before (though admittedly 15,000 people is a bit more than I was needing to worry about) who has the experience to give some unique insight based on that experience.  The beauty of bringing the community's valuable members' brains together is stunning...and honestly one of the few things that keeps me going sometimes.
:)

It was not 15,000 people, it was 150,000 btw  :)

And we didn't have the names of people coloured (although that's an option). Each member would have a history of warnings and bans with their dates and who was the mod who sent the warning/ban and the motive on their profiles as well as the link to the thread of the infraction. That way a mod would know if member X has a past of warnings and bans.

You would see something like this;
Latest Infractions Received (0 point(s) total)
A yellow warning would get you one point and those points would expire after X time
A red warning would get you 2 points and those points would expire after X time

If you reached 3 or 5 points, cant remember, you would be banned temporarily. ie. 1 week.
Then if you did it again you would get 2 weeks, then 1 month, then permabanned.

According to the user's history, mods would decide if they should issue a red or yellow warning. If it's the user's first time he would get a yellow one, except for flame. If the user already had multiple warnings he would get a red one.

And all the mods could see the user's profiles with the warning's list.

Regarding tonyk, using him as an example, although that applies to everyone else, it's not about censoring his posts or judge what he said is valuable or not. It's about politeness/rudeness of some posts. You don't censor the post and ban him. You remove the words that are rude if he or someone else insults other people and then issue a warning. and I'm not saying he swears. It was an example. lzr for example, would have been long gone because all he does is spam and flame. It's not about censoring someone who talks the truth and has the courage to step up and say things are not working, because that's not what he does. He flames. His comments are useless. That's an example.

You can give the most constructive and useful comment, but if you flame all throughout your post and insult others, it's obvious the swearing should be removed and the user warned/banned accordingly.

Newmine on the other hand, yeah, did a lot of posts that could be considered flame or trollish by some... but at least he didn't swear or insult (assuming  i remember correctly?) so there's nothing wrong with it and his posts can be tolerated imo. He is just someone voicing his opinion, even though not in the best way but still.. He has made some good posts.

And like fav said, which most people don't seem to grasp is that being a mod is not a popularity contest. In fact, in most cases if a mod does his job right he won't be liked by the trolls.

We don't even have word censorship to avoid swearing around here. Of course we are all adults, should speak what we want, but there's definitely no need for insults, they don't contribute for a better discussion, on the contrary.

You think bumping old posts sharing whatever kind of coins, even if they don't have the best name, is not spamming/trolling? Please. Of course that should be considered spam. It doesn't contribute for anything and definitely doesn't give a better image of the forums.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 10:15:36 am by Akado »
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Offline lovejoy

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2015, 10:15:16 am »
The bottom line is (presumably) we're all in this together.

I hear cries of "conflict of interest".
I see generous amounts of room for the alignment of interests.

Time is precious, and there's not much room for infighting.

Bearing grudges, and standing divided against each other is one of the surest poisons we could swallow.

To define the elusive forms of self aware, self interested, mutually beneficial, and organized lines of development, on a common platform.  This is our task.

We've made it really far with just the barebones structure necessary to fire up a Graphene class smartchain and hit crypto-space, however the human element has not been fully accounted for, with all its mysterious slings and arrows.

Capital is not what binds us together, it's just one of the markers by which that bond is visible.  Remember, invest in people?
This project would be in the Dark Ages were it not for people like Dan, and Fuzzy, and the many other courageous and generous souls who have really put themselves out there to explore, articulate, and weave the ties which bind this community together.

Oh you thought this was the Dark Ages?

We're 63 days from the launch of 2.0
Things are just getting interesting.

Don't forget to breathe.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 10:17:17 am by lovejoy »

Offline fav

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2015, 10:16:43 am »
We should have a forum UIA and whomever earns the most tips in that UIA can become a moderator.

Once again luckybit...these brilliant ideas are why I am addicted to your brain.  You think and daydream like I do about this.  Give people the ability to spread their wings!

and [member=16353]Akado[/member], the problem here is that one person gets to make the decision.  Instead we should have a means by which to disintermediate that power out of one person's hands.  Also, being a forum moderator is a hard job---so mods should enjoy anything that can get the community behind helping them do their jobs to the best of their ability (imho).

I like the idea of colors to mark people (and show them that they are getting close to a ban).  But the big thing for me is the deleting of comments that are "not valuable".  I'll tell you right now as much as I hate tonyk's consistent intent to stomp his boot on faces that I am not (and neither is anyone else) qualified to judge whether his posts may or may not have value in our community.  Restriction of speech is restriction of speech...no real gray lines here imho. :/

I do like some of your ideas though on how to make it easier and better than the current process.  The other cool thing is that just by asking this in the community is that I have someone else who has served as a moderator before (though admittedly 15,000 people is a bit more than I was needing to worry about) who has the experience to give some unique insight based on that experience.  The beauty of bringing the community's valuable members' brains together is stunning...and honestly one of the few things that keeps me going sometimes.
:)

It was not 15,000 people, it was 150,000 btw  :)

And we didn't have the names of people coloured (although that's an option). Each member would have a history of warnings and bans with their dates and who was the mod who sent the warning/ban and the motive on their profiles as well as the link to the thread of the infraction. That way a mod would know if member X has a past of warnings and bans.

You would see something like this;
Latest Infractions Received (0 point(s) total)
A yellow warning would get you one point and those points would expire after X time
A red warning would get you 2 points and those points would expire after X time

If you reached 3 or 5 points, cant remember, you would be banned temporarily. ie. 1 week.
Then if you did it again you would get 2 weeks, then 1 month, then permabanned.

According to the user's history, mods would decide if they should issue a red or yellow warning. If it's the user's first time he would get a yellow one, except for flame. If the user already had multiple warnings he would get a red one.

And all the mods could see the user's profiles with the warning's list.

Regarding tonyk, using him as an example, although that applies to everyone else, it's not about censoring his posts or judge what he said is valuable or not. It's about politeness/rudeness of some posts. You don't censor the post and ban him. You remove the words that are rude if he or someone else insults other people and then issue a warning. and I'm not saying he swears. It was an example. lzr for example, would have been long gone because all he does is spam and flame. It's not about censoring someone who talks the truth and has the courage to step up and say things are not working, because that's not what he does. He flames. His comments are useless. That's an example.

You can give the most constructive and useful comment, but if you flame all throughout your post and insult others, it's obvious the swearing should be removed and the user warned/banned accordingly.

Newmine on the other hand, yeah, did a lot of posts that could be considered flame or trollish by some... but at least he didn't swear so there's nothing wrong with it and his posts can be tolerated imo. He is just someone voicing his opinion, even though not in the best way but still.. He has made some good posts.

And like fav said, which most people don't seem to grasp is that being a mod is not a popularity contest. In fact, in most cases if a mod does his job right he won't be liked by the trolls.

We don't even have word censorship to avoid swearing around here. Of course we are all adults, should speak what we want, but there's definitely no need for insults, they don't contribute for a better discussion, on the contrary.

You think bumping old posts sharing whatever kind of coins, even if they don't have the best name, is not spamming/trolling? Please. Of course that should be considered spam. It doesn't contribute for anything and definitely doesn't give a better image of the forums.

just scrolling through (don't have time atm) but lzr was banned for the 3rd warning > https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20535.msg264985.html#msg264985

we have a warning system, but it's only visible for mods. and honestly, we usually don't need one as this community is rather mature.
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Offline Akado

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2015, 10:43:06 am »
I see. Well, you already have the warning system though. There's those points on the side.
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Offline infovortice2013

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2015, 11:23:48 am »
hope fav take a ton of BTS for working in forum , and his blog.

i stop doing blog and forum and spread the word since [member=1745]Bitmaster[/member] decide all i do is worth 10k brownies. yeah the fisrt motherfucker come to make marketing earn 30 milions BTS for do nothing, all the rest doing real things take shitty brownies. jajajaja okok all for you.


Good luck finding slaves to spread the word and mantain forum and comunities.
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Offline Akado

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2015, 12:02:20 pm »
hope fav take a ton of BTS for working in forum , and his blog.

i stop doing blog and forum and spread the word since [member=1745]Bitmaster[/member] decide all i do is worth 10k brownies. yeah the fisrt motherfucker come to make marketing earn 30 milions BTS for do nothing, all the rest doing real things take shitty brownies. jajajaja okok all for you.


Good luck finding slaves to spread the word and mantain forum and comunities.

Maybe you should have asked for a job or position where CNX or I3 at the time would pay you for your efforts as it seems you were working and expecting something in return in the first place.
You can't expect everyone doing blog posts and spreading the word to be paid. It's already in your best interest to do so.
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Offline NewMine

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Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2015, 03:44:11 am »
hope fav take a ton of BTS for working in forum , and his blog.

i stop doing blog and forum and spread the word since [member=1745]Bitmaster[/member] decide all i do is worth 10k brownies. yeah the fisrt motherfucker come to make marketing earn 30 milions BTS for do nothing, all the rest doing real things take shitty brownies. jajajaja okok all for you.


Good luck finding slaves to spread the word and mantain forum and comunities.

Well said, kind of. Had me laughing. I never got any brownies if that makes you feel better.
- snip -

Fuck it. You win. I'm out.
Damn, pushed another away.
hope fav take a ton of BTS for working in forum , and his blog.

i stop doing blog and forum and spread the word since [member=1745]Bitmaster[/member] decide all i do is worth 10k brownies. yeah the fisrt motherfucker come to make marketing earn 30 milions BTS for do nothing, all the rest doing real things take shitty brownies. jajajaja okok all for you.


Good luck finding slaves to spread the word and mantain forum and comunities.

Maybe you should have asked for a job or position where CNX or I3 at the time would pay you for your efforts as it seems you were working and expecting something in return in the first place.
You can't expect everyone doing blog posts and spreading the word to be paid. It's already in your best interest to do so.

Who's best interest? They can't even get the garbage referal program working.


Offline mangou007

Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2015, 02:16:58 pm »
As for the forum moderator, I can give you another exemple, in the french part of the forum, the moderator is minerswing ( a very nice guy btw) but he was there in the early stages and is almost never connected now... I would rather see someone active to be the moderator here, to make this section move a little bit more than nowadays...
I think we can do better than that...
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