Why Vision Matters Blog Post

[lil_jay890]

I'm so sick of the cop out answer of "do it yourself".  News flash, no one is "doing it themselves" for a variety of reasons.  Also people need to realize that bts investors are INVESTORS.  When's the last time you heard of a public company saying their investors need to start developing products for the company?? Never.

There's plenty of room to work here, and people willing to collaborate with you.  Whatever it is we need to achieve, we can do it together.

I never said do it yourself, I said let's do it together, I said collaborate.  It's not a cop out, it's the way it is.  If you are uncomfortable with the way this 'company' operates, either help it to operate more to your liking, fund those who will, offer constructive input, be quiet, or leave... I think comparing BitShares to a traditional "public company" reveals a strange disconnect with the nature of this project.

and the argument being made that this community is "scaring away other devs" is completely false.  Other dev's would be here if they saw that there was an actual way to make money with bitshares.  They don't care about their reputation on a forum.

So you say.  I think you cannot see how toxic and hostile the forums can be at times.  We have a lot of gems here, but there is a vocal crowd of people, who do more to sew dissent, complain, rage against the phantoms instead of seeking solutions or supporting those who do.  I recognize many have 'lost' an investment they hoped would be more mobile than it is currently, but that's no excuse.

This is oftentimes an unwelcoming place for newcomers, devs or otherwise, to enter, because of so much needless fear, uncertainty, and doubt, being spun better than any Fox news anchor... I think this is less attributable to malice and more to ignorance, but also I see there is some malice here as well.

Bottom line,  CNX has both the intellectual power and stake power to control the direction BTS indefinitely.  Until at least 1 of those is given up, bts growth will be inhibited and the centralized drum beat will continue.  You, the shareholder, are supporting this by keeping the price stable.  The only way I see out of this is a collapse in bts price or one of the above scenarios.

CNX has a moronic attitude towards the BTS price (aka the hand that feeds them). So yes I totally see them driving the price to 1 mil ish before waking up for what they have done and even considering any of your choses above... although they also tend to abandon anything that does not work by itself at 75% finished level... so them just walking away completely after hitting the above 'target' is the most likely scenario.

Are you suggesting that Bytemaster gets a lobotomy and CNX gives all their (minimal compared to any other cypto-project) stake away?

Yes, this is clearly the answer, i see it now!  Thank you lil jay, for helping me to realize that failure will bring success, that down is the new up!

DOWN IS THE NEW UP!

My posts do offer solutions... Sorry they are not the ones you like. 

I see CNX as the problem, obviously you do not.  But go ahead, keep taking my posts out of context and jabbing me personally.

[topcandle]

@Akado - I will never drop the goal and requirement of profitability.  Profit is the key to sustainability which was outlined in my vision.  Everything I do is focused on PROFIT, but I want to make doing the RIGHT THING profitable.  If we make helping others profitable then it will help us help more people.

Can you explain how exactly you plan to make MAS profitable in 2016? As I have said before, I think it will require massive amount of work. I highly suspect that it wont bring any meaningful profits for Bitshares for a long time.

Agreed.

[lovejoy]

I'm so sick of the cop out answer of "do it yourself".  News flash, no one is "doing it themselves" for a variety of reasons.  Also people need to realize that bts investors are INVESTORS.  When's the last time you heard of a public company saying their investors need to start developing products for the company?? Never.

There's plenty of room to work here, and people willing to collaborate with you.  Whatever it is we need to achieve, we can do it together.

I never said do it yourself, I said let's do it together, I said collaborate.  It's not a cop out, it's the way it is.  If you are uncomfortable with the way this 'company' operates, either help it to operate more to your liking, fund those who will, offer constructive input, be quiet, or leave... I think comparing BitShares to a traditional "public company" reveals a strange disconnect with the nature of this project.

and the argument being made that this community is "scaring away other devs" is completely false.  Other dev's would be here if they saw that there was an actual way to make money with bitshares.  They don't care about their reputation on a forum.

So you say.  I think you cannot see how toxic and hostile the forums can be at times.  We have a lot of gems here, but there is a vocal crowd of people, who do more to sew dissent, complain, rage against the phantoms instead of seeking solutions or supporting those who do.  I recognize many have 'lost' an investment they hoped would be more mobile than it is currently, but that's no excuse.

This is oftentimes an unwelcoming place for newcomers, devs or otherwise, to enter, because of so much needless fear, uncertainty, and doubt, being spun better than any Fox news anchor... I think this is less attributable to malice and more to ignorance, but also I see there is some malice here as well.

Bottom line,  CNX has both the intellectual power and stake power to control the direction BTS indefinitely.  Until at least 1 of those is given up, bts growth will be inhibited and the centralized drum beat will continue.  You, the shareholder, are supporting this by keeping the price stable.  The only way I see out of this is a collapse in bts price or one of the above scenarios.

CNX has a moronic attitude towards the BTS price (aka the hand that feeds them). So yes I totally see them driving the price to 1 mil ish before waking up for what they have done and even considering any of your choses above... although they also tend to abandon anything that does not work by itself at 75% finished level... so them just walking away completely after hitting the above 'target' is the most likely scenario.

Are you suggesting that Bytemaster gets a lobotomy and CNX gives all their (minimal compared to any other cypto-project) stake away?

Yes, this is clearly the answer, i see it now!  Thank you lil jay, for helping me to realize that failure will bring success, that down is the new up!

DOWN IS THE NEW UP!

[Samupaha]

@Akado - I will never drop the goal and requirement of profitability.  Profit is the key to sustainability which was outlined in my vision.  Everything I do is focused on PROFIT, but I want to make doing the RIGHT THING profitable.  If we make helping others profitable then it will help us help more people.

Can you explain how exactly you plan to make MAS profitable in 2016? As I have said before, I think it will require massive amount of work. I highly suspect that it wont bring any meaningful profits for Bitshares for a long time.

[tonyk]

I'm so sick of the cop out answer of "do it yourself".  News flash, no one is "doing it themselves" for a variety of reasons.  Also people need to realize that bts investors are INVESTORS.  When's the last time you heard of a public company saying their investors need to start developing products for the company?? Never.

and the argument being made that this community is "scaring away other devs" is completely false.  Other dev's would be here if they saw that there was an actual way to make money with bitshares.  They don't care about their reputation on a forum.

The only way bitshares succeeds is:

-CNX hits a homerun on some project in which BTS gets rewarded... (FBA's do not accomplish this. Also not likely since CNX is the primary benefactor of the charity also known as bitshares).
-CNX promotes competition against itself.  To really make bts successful CNX should act more like a foundation than a company.
-CNX loses the ability to take over the committee and make rapid forks and changes.
-CNX leaving the table would also give bitshares a much better shot at growth.  I believe this would bring China back to the table.  They left after being smashed by I3 in the merger and are wisely avoiding that outcome again.

Bottom line,  CNX has both the intellectual power and stake power to control the direction BTS indefinitely.  Until at least 1 of those is given up, bts growth will be inhibited and the centralized drum beat will continue.  You, the shareholder, are supporting this by keeping the price stable.  The only way I see out of this is a collapse in bts price or one of the above scenarios.

CNX has a moronic attitude towards the BTS price (aka the hand that feeds them). So yes I totally see them driving the price to 1 mil ish before waking up for what they have done and even considering any of your choses above... although they also tend to abandon anything that does not work by itself at 75% finished level... so them just walking away completely after hitting the above 'target' is the most likely scenario.

[kenCode]

CNX leaving the table would also give bitshares a much better shot at growth.  I believe this would bring China back to the table.

This is an interesting point. So many people are focusing on CNX when really it would be best to focus on the individual producers themselves. I for one would definitely start voting if Workers like Xeroc, Valentine, Ben, James, SVK, Mindphlux and others (sorry if I don't name everyone) went freelance. I hire the best Devs from all over the world and these guys would definitely get Workers voted in bar none. Each of them should have their own trade-able token too.

[Akado]

I'm so sick of the cop out answer of "do it yourself".  News flash, no one is "doing it themselves" for a variety of reasons.  Also people need to realize that bts investors are INVESTORS.  When's the last time you heard of a public company saying their investors need to start developing products for the company?? Never.

and the argument being made that this community is "scaring away other devs" is completely false.  Other dev's would be here if they saw that there was an actual way to make money with bitshares.  They don't care about their reputation on a forum.

The only way bitshares succeeds is:

-CNX hits a homerun on some project in which BTS gets rewarded... (FBA's do not accomplish this. Also not likely since CNX is the primary benefactor of the charity also known as bitshares).
-CNX promotes competition against itself.  To really make bts successful CNX should act more like a foundation than a company.
-CNX loses the ability to take over the committee and make rapid forks and changes.
-CNX leaving the table would also give bitshares a much better shot at growth.  I believe this would bring China back to the table.  They left after being smashed by I3 in the merger and are wisely avoiding that outcome again.

Bottom line,  CNX has both the intellectual power and stake power to control the direction BTS indefinitely.  Until at least 1 of those is given up, bts growth will be inhibited and the centralized drum beat will continue.  You, the shareholder, are supporting this by keeping the price stable.  The only way I see out of this is a collapse in bts price or one of the above scenarios.

I understand CNX have a lot of influence, but still, don't we or didn't we have chinese whales? Weren't the chinese always blamed for the pump and dumps in the past? I'm sure they have a huge voting weight too, nothing keeps them from doing something.

I honestly would like to see worker proposals coming from them so we know the solutions they've come up with. But proposals to introduce features, not just changing parameters. China is huge can't the "whales" find any devs?

[lil_jay890]

I'm so sick of the cop out answer of "do it yourself".  News flash, no one is "doing it themselves" for a variety of reasons.  Also people need to realize that bts investors are INVESTORS.  When's the last time you heard of a public company saying their investors need to start developing products for the company?? Never.

and the argument being made that this community is "scaring away other devs" is completely false.  Other dev's would be here if they saw that there was an actual way to make money with bitshares.  They don't care about their reputation on a forum.

The only way bitshares succeeds is:

-CNX hits a homerun on some project in which BTS gets rewarded... (FBA's do not accomplish this. Also not likely since CNX is the primary benefactor of the charity also known as bitshares).
-CNX promotes competition against itself.  To really make bts successful CNX should act more like a foundation than a company.
-CNX loses the ability to take over the committee and make rapid forks and changes.
-CNX leaving the table would also give bitshares a much better shot at growth.  I believe this would bring China back to the table.  They left after being smashed by I3 in the merger and are wisely avoiding that outcome again.

Bottom line,  CNX has both the intellectual power and stake power to control the direction BTS indefinitely.  Until at least 1 of those is given up, bts growth will be inhibited and the centralized drum beat will continue.  You, the shareholder, are supporting this by keeping the price stable.  The only way I see out of this is a collapse in bts price or one of the above scenarios.

[CoinHoarder]

Start a thread, lead a conversation, galvanize the community, get a worker proposal going... please for the love of God everyone stop with the hostage act... your hands are not tied, you're not wrestling with demons... There's plenty of room to work here, and people willing to collaborate with you.  Whatever it is we need to achieve, we can do it together.

 

[Akado]

@Akado - I will never drop the goal and requirement of profitability.  Profit is the key to sustainability which was outlined in my vision.  Everything I do is focused on PROFIT, but I want to make doing the RIGHT THING profitable.  If we make helping others profitable then it will help us help more people.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that's necessarily the best/easiest/more profitable path first. I'm all for it, if we have the resources, which we seem no to have atm...

[lovejoy]

Why not write a proposal for what you want, offer to manage it, sell it to the community and recruit us or someone else to do the work?

You know quite well that this is absurd.
This documentation has to come from one of the top developers, probably BM himself.
Me (or anybody else) being a middle man in this process is pointless as there is no value added in my attempting to manage BM.

I understand that CNX has much more motivation to pursue a business opportunity like MAS than to create documentation and open up true competition against itself.
However CNX needs to make this altruistic (yet paid) effort or otherwise DPOS is pure fiction.

You got my message so I'll shut up now.

So that's it, you're just going to sit on your hands now?  You've expressed a clear desire to get this documentation executed, but now what will come of it?  You're going to wait for someone else to take action?  You think making your point about the need for documentation in a thread about VISION is enough? 

All that energy you just expended in trying to argue a point, it's like you're really trying to see a boogey man, but I just see excuses.  I see A LOT of room for you, or someone, to be a middle man here -- aren't you one of the fabled project managers we've been waiting for?  If the community wanted to fund this effort, (and I think we should) I believe you will find the 'top developers' more than willing to participate.  It's the perfect fit for a project manager, someone needs to ride point until it gets done.  Who will step up and do that?

Start a thread, lead a conversation, galvanize the community, get a worker proposal going... please for the love of God everyone stop with the hostage act... your hands are not tied, you're not wrestling with demons... There's plenty of room to work here, and people willing to collaborate with you.  Whatever it is we need to achieve, we can do it together.

[Stan]

Why not write a proposal for what you want, offer to manage it, sell it to the community and recruit us or someone else to do the work?

You know quite well that this is absurd.
This documentation has to come from one of the top developers, probably BM himself.
Me (or anybody else) being a middle man in this process is pointless as there is no value added in my attempting to manage BM.

I understand that CNX has much more motivation to pursue a business opportunity like MAS than to create documentation and open up true competition against itself.
However CNX needs to make this altruistic (yet paid) effort or otherwise DPOS is pure fiction.

You got my message so I'll shut up now.

Not absurd at all.

90% of the deep technical documentation already exists in the code as Xeroc has testified.
Layers of abstraction above that could be done by a suitably organized team of technical writers.
BM would be available to answer questions from the writers or any independent developer.
But you are right about one thing, we are not going to tie up a resource like BM doing the bulk of that remaining work.

That leaves the field wide open for someone like you to organize the effort - including when to expend some silver bullets to get occasional consultation from BM on the fine points.

[jakub]

Why not write a proposal for what you want, offer to manage it, sell it to the community and recruit us or someone else to do the work?

You know quite well that this is absurd.
This documentation has to come from one of the top developers, probably BM himself.
Me (or anybody else) being a middle man in this process is pointless as there is no value added in my attempting to manage BM.

I understand that CNX has much more motivation to pursue a business opportunity like MAS than to create documentation and open up true competition against itself.
However CNX needs to make this altruistic (yet paid) effort or otherwise DPOS is pure fiction.

You got my message so I'll shut up now.

[bytemaster]

@Akado - I will never drop the goal and requirement of profitability.  Profit is the key to sustainability which was outlined in my vision.  Everything I do is focused on PROFIT, but I want to make doing the RIGHT THING profitable.  If we make helping others profitable then it will help us help more people. 

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

I agree that we need more devs than CNX. Nobody has ever debated that.

You don't think there hasn't been some interest?

Did it ever occur to members of this community that they may have came and went after they saw the cheapskate and abusive treatment that have been delivered non-stop from people in this forum towards current devs?

Why would ANYBODY of any caliber of skill want to waste their time with any of that when there are others who will treat them with respect and pay them what they are worth?

You all point the finger at CNX, but the truth is we don't have more devs here because of in part how you carry on here.

If you want to attract more worker bees, consider using honey instead of big sticks.

Regardless of this, I can see more devs coming into light in 2016 by way of private hires that will not participate in this forum. It's the only way to protect their careers, and will get things done that are being talked about.

I digress because this is way off from where the thread started.

The vision is fine. A great vision. I will do what I can to support it in its execution. In the end that's all that will matter.

Might I suggest those that wish to see more dev in the DEX or other self interest features to start other threads to better organize execution on elements that they would like to see.. get community support.. and get a worker proposal going. If you would like some help with that I would be happy to assist in any way.

Ideas and bitching mean nothing; execution is everything.