Author Topic: Why Vision Matters Blog Post  (Read 21675 times)

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Offline btswildpig

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The DEX is "done" except for perhaps the MAKER proposal which isn't even necessary.  SVK and CASS are working on improving the User Interface of the DEX.  Michael is working on improving the API to be similar to poloniex. 

The key to bootstrapping any exchange is having UNIQUE assets to trade.  This is something that FBA and new business models will have.

I haven't forgotten the DEX, it is a critical component. I have just learned through experience that selling a DEX is a hard niche market.

Banking partners are telling all blockchain companies the same thing: "we don't want your chain, we want our own".   Anyone holding out for banking partners getting on board any existing public chain in a meaningful way needs a wakeup call.   

BitShares needs to provide VALUE to the average joe.  A DEX doesn't provide that value on its own.  A bond market doesn't provide that value on its own. 

Selling people "peace of mind" and an opportunity to "change the world" and "fight the empire" and "fight Obamacare" is a much easier sell in my own market research.

Please, someone tell me the market value of Poloniex.. how much is their exchange worth?  How much is BitStamp worth?  BitFinex?    The combined revenue of all crypto currency exchanges is less than $25 million per year.  If we assume these exchanges operate with a 50% profit margin then that means $12 million per year in profit.  Based upon a 5% dividend, this would put the combined value of all exchanges in the cryptocurrency space at  $240M dollars and my guess is that is very high.

So if BitShares grew to become the only exchange in the entire market it would be worth at most 24x its current valuation. 

Bitcoin is valued because of the COMMUNITY of freedom activists that are using it and promoting it.  It has no revenue based valuation.  A DEX doesn't inspire a community following like Bitcoin has.   

Lets gain some perspective before calling for the DEX to be "finished" as if that will magically make BTS grow in value 10x.

"Bitcoin is valued because of the COMMUNITY of freedom activists that are using it and promoting it. "


Bitcoin is valued simply because big speculative capital (including the ones owns big mining operations) have enough capital to hold it .
 freedom activists have zero money to lead bitcoin this far . They're insignificant . However , they speak things people likes to hear , so they become the main role in front of media .

Bitcoin's rise is not a result of promotion , usage . Bitcoin is a perfect speculative object for capitals to gain profit , the basic rules can not be changed , it doesn't controlled by single person , that's perfect for capital to speculative on it .
If you can't see that , no matter how many different community you try to attract , you will never copy the same success of Bitcoin .

well said.  +5% +5% +5%
I don't believe a person in crypto world for over five years didn't recognize this.

That's what scares me . Maybe he truly din't recognize this.
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline clayop

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The dex is finished.
No. Until it has decent profit model (percent based fee system) it is not finished.

There are percentage based fees.
Only for UIAs now.
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Offline wallace

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The DEX is "done" except for perhaps the MAKER proposal which isn't even necessary.  SVK and CASS are working on improving the User Interface of the DEX.  Michael is working on improving the API to be similar to poloniex. 

The key to bootstrapping any exchange is having UNIQUE assets to trade.  This is something that FBA and new business models will have.

I haven't forgotten the DEX, it is a critical component. I have just learned through experience that selling a DEX is a hard niche market.

Banking partners are telling all blockchain companies the same thing: "we don't want your chain, we want our own".   Anyone holding out for banking partners getting on board any existing public chain in a meaningful way needs a wakeup call.   

BitShares needs to provide VALUE to the average joe.  A DEX doesn't provide that value on its own.  A bond market doesn't provide that value on its own. 

Selling people "peace of mind" and an opportunity to "change the world" and "fight the empire" and "fight Obamacare" is a much easier sell in my own market research.

Please, someone tell me the market value of Poloniex.. how much is their exchange worth?  How much is BitStamp worth?  BitFinex?    The combined revenue of all crypto currency exchanges is less than $25 million per year.  If we assume these exchanges operate with a 50% profit margin then that means $12 million per year in profit.  Based upon a 5% dividend, this would put the combined value of all exchanges in the cryptocurrency space at  $240M dollars and my guess is that is very high.

So if BitShares grew to become the only exchange in the entire market it would be worth at most 24x its current valuation. 

Bitcoin is valued because of the COMMUNITY of freedom activists that are using it and promoting it.  It has no revenue based valuation.  A DEX doesn't inspire a community following like Bitcoin has.   

Lets gain some perspective before calling for the DEX to be "finished" as if that will magically make BTS grow in value 10x.

"Bitcoin is valued because of the COMMUNITY of freedom activists that are using it and promoting it. "


Bitcoin is valued simply because big speculative capital (including the ones owns big mining operations) have enough capital to hold it .
 freedom activists have zero money to lead bitcoin this far . They're insignificant . However , they speak things people likes to hear , so they become the main role in front of media .

Bitcoin's rise is not a result of promotion , usage . Bitcoin is a perfect speculative object for capitals to gain profit , the basic rules can not be changed , it doesn't controlled by single person , that's perfect for capital to speculative on it .
If you can't see that , no matter how many different community you try to attract , you will never copy the same success of Bitcoin .

well said.  +5% +5% +5%
I don't believe a person in crypto world for over five years didn't recognize this.
give me money, I will do...

Offline bitacer

OMG! More ideological BS. Stop dreaming and make a decent exchange which could be used by merchants.

What are some of those merchants , could you name a few ?

Offline sittingduck

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The dex is finished.
No. Until it has decent profit model (percent based fee system) it is not finished.

There are percentage based fees. 

Offline topcandle

I thought Bytemaster had a roadmap for protecting freedom....  is that changing now.  he needs a roadmap to make money?
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Offline bitacer

The dex is finished.
No. Until it has decent profit model (percent based fee system) it is not finished.

I dont think he meant "completed" .

Offline clayop

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The dex is finished.
No. Until it has decent profit model (percent based fee system) it is not finished.
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Offline sittingduck

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The dex is finished. 

Offline merivercap

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BTW GoFundMe was a tremendous success...  WePay piggy-backed off GoFundMe from what I understand, but WePay had incredible fraud detection technology so they were a good fit for each other.  For a two-sided marketplace with everyday donors/funders and high potential for fraud we need a strong reputation or web of trust system.  Anyways there's a lot of potential for a system like this and you can probably use multisig accounts for tighter controls as well.... you also can have blockchain accountability for larger projects... 

A project similar to GoFundMe would be great.
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Offline btswildpig

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The DEX is "done" except for perhaps the MAKER proposal which isn't even necessary.  SVK and CASS are working on improving the User Interface of the DEX.  Michael is working on improving the API to be similar to poloniex. 

The key to bootstrapping any exchange is having UNIQUE assets to trade.  This is something that FBA and new business models will have.

I haven't forgotten the DEX, it is a critical component. I have just learned through experience that selling a DEX is a hard niche market.

Banking partners are telling all blockchain companies the same thing: "we don't want your chain, we want our own".   Anyone holding out for banking partners getting on board any existing public chain in a meaningful way needs a wakeup call.   

BitShares needs to provide VALUE to the average joe.  A DEX doesn't provide that value on its own.  A bond market doesn't provide that value on its own. 

Selling people "peace of mind" and an opportunity to "change the world" and "fight the empire" and "fight Obamacare" is a much easier sell in my own market research.

Please, someone tell me the market value of Poloniex.. how much is their exchange worth?  How much is BitStamp worth?  BitFinex?    The combined revenue of all crypto currency exchanges is less than $25 million per year.  If we assume these exchanges operate with a 50% profit margin then that means $12 million per year in profit.  Based upon a 5% dividend, this would put the combined value of all exchanges in the cryptocurrency space at  $240M dollars and my guess is that is very high.

So if BitShares grew to become the only exchange in the entire market it would be worth at most 24x its current valuation. 

Bitcoin is valued because of the COMMUNITY of freedom activists that are using it and promoting it.  It has no revenue based valuation.  A DEX doesn't inspire a community following like Bitcoin has.   

Lets gain some perspective before calling for the DEX to be "finished" as if that will magically make BTS grow in value 10x.

"Bitcoin is valued because of the COMMUNITY of freedom activists that are using it and promoting it. "


Bitcoin is valued simply because big speculative capital (including the ones owns big mining operations) have enough capital to hold it .
 freedom activists have zero money to lead bitcoin this far . They're insignificant . However , they speak things people likes to hear , so they become the main role in front of media .

Bitcoin's rise is not a result of promotion , usage . Bitcoin is a perfect speculative object for capitals to gain profit , the basic rules can not be changed , it doesn't controlled by single person , that's perfect for capital to speculative on it .
If you can't see that , no matter how many different community you try to attract , you will never copy the same success of Bitcoin .
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 03:18:07 am by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline mike623317

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I think BM is right here. I did not agree at first, but think about it for a second - look at StartCoin that max keiser started. StartJoin is all about helping young people start a business with community backing. Its taking off because of the idea behind it and look at the multiple aspects to it that are all professionally done.

Offline clayop

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Lets gain some perspective before calling for the DEX to be "finished" as if that will magically make BTS grow in value 10x.

If we don't finish the DEX and move to MAS, BTS value may decrease 10x...

Because people will think that BitShares has no roadmap and focus, just dreaming bigger things without making any decent products.
Regardless of the value of exchange, we should finish up "basic" DEX, that can generate income, first.
What's the major income source of exchanges? Percentage based fees (BSIP 4).

If BSIP 4 does not require significantly great efforts, please go to this first.
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Offline lovejoy

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Quote
Selling people "peace of mind" and an opportunity to "change the world" and "fight the empire" and "fight Obamacare" is a much easier sell in my own market research.

HAHAHAA!!! You have have to come up with something better than this bullshit. Try selling a place in Paradise in afterlife. Many crooks do it successfully.

You're arguing against yourself now since you are just reaffirming that you can indeed use ideology to sell, oftentimes against all reasonings of self interest, as you've just pointed out with your wonderful example. =)

PS.  Still trying to figure out what you mean by this riddle of yours...
That's ok. You are free to do whatever you want. Just don't forget, being determines consciousness, not vice versa.

Offline clayop

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The DEX is "done" except for perhaps the MAKER proposal which isn't even necessary.  SVK and CASS are working on improving the User Interface of the DEX.  Michael is working on improving the API to be similar to poloniex. 

Why do you ignore the percentage based fee? (BSIP 4) I think this is much more important than MAKER, because it can increase profits.

As an active trader (you can see I'm on the top 10 list of trading in DEX), I don't care about maker/taker system. Liquidity can be improved by market making bots. But without percentage based fee (and order creation fee should be lowered just to prevent spam), DEX cannot be profitable.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 02:01:52 am by clayop »
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