Let's create a foundation for competition among BTS developers

[abit]

Before we go searching for talented C++ coders outside of the BitShares community, might it not be wise to inquire as to which of our local bts community talents could be persuaded to put time into such an effort?  @xeroc is already well along in his efforts.  What about @svk?  Might a sufficiently well paid worker proposal be able to persuade some of our highly talented friends to focus on developing this 'foundation'?

If we're going to spend bts for such efforts, if possible I'd prefer to see it go towards people whose reputations and interests are already firmly aligned with the success of BitShares.

Thoughts?

Please contact @hybridd and @kuro112 .
I am not sure how good they are with c++, but they could possibly help.

Hybridd has been providing support for sharebits in the freebie section and kuro has written tutorials in the past (with no expectations of compensation ) -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19612.msg251784.html

Regards
Xypher

People from Freebie have being showing passions and efforts for a long time. Imo it's a good chance for them now.

[Xypher]

Before we go searching for talented C++ coders outside of the BitShares community, might it not be wise to inquire as to which of our local bts community talents could be persuaded to put time into such an effort?  @xeroc is already well along in his efforts.  What about @svk?  Might a sufficiently well paid worker proposal be able to persuade some of our highly talented friends to focus on developing this 'foundation'?

If we're going to spend bts for such efforts, if possible I'd prefer to see it go towards people whose reputations and interests are already firmly aligned with the success of BitShares.

Thoughts?

Please contact @hybridd and @kuro112 .
I am not sure how good they are with c++, but they could possibly help.

Hybridd has been providing support for sharebits in the freebie section and kuro has written tutorials in the past (with no expectations of compensation ) -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19612.msg251784.html

Regards
Xypher

[lovejoy]

Before we go searching for talented C++ coders outside of the BitShares community, might it not be wise to inquire as to which of our local bts community talents could be persuaded to put time into such an effort?  @xeroc is already well along in his efforts.  What about @svk?  Might a sufficiently well paid worker proposal be able to persuade some of our highly talented friends to focus on developing this 'foundation'?

If we're going to spend bts for such efforts, if possible I'd prefer to see it go towards people whose reputations and interests are already firmly aligned with the success of BitShares.

Thoughts?

[abit]

I would spend more time on the code, not sure how much time I can put in though, nor any result is able to be guaranteed right now.

[xeroc]

5. What subjects will the documentation by xeroc cover as opposed to the documentation aimed at developers?

Let's let Xeroc answer that.  He is free to focus where he feels he can do the most good.

Ideally, I would like to see it grow beyond just my inputs .. Like a community project.
Sources for docs.bitshares.eu are publicly available, are written in ReStructureText (similar to markdown) and pull requests are welcome.

[Stan]

This is a great example of seeing a problem and doing something to fix it!

I can answer a few of the questions, until BM has a chance to weigh in:

1. How big is the Graphene source code? (in terms of lines of code) How much time do you expect an experienced C++ developer (not familiar with the blockchain concept) would require to become productive with Graphene?

I'll leave the size statistics to someone familiar withe the GitHub library.  The Graphene Devs invented it from scratch in about three months. Three more to achieve deployment quality.  Generally a new developer can become productive at some narrow specialty area in a few weeks.  I'd like to hear from any of our developers what their personal experience has been.

2. The current status of the Graphene documentation/tutorials and CNX plans in this regard for the next 1-3 months.

We will support whatever community leaders like yourself are able to develop as a viable funded plan.

3. To what extent is the documentation embedded in the source code useful? Are there any examples there?

BM's Blog Article states:  "Anyone can create new smart contracts for BitShares today. There is ample documentation and examples within the code and a community of developers ready to answer any questions those developers may have. A simple tutorial could be drafted on how to write contracts for BitShares."

4. If I hire a C++ developer and give them the task of becoming a fully-fledged Graphene developer able to create smart contracts and deploy them - where should s/he start? What is the path s/he should follow to learn these skills?

Bytemaster would be happy to personally mentor such a person to get them an initial vector and help get them unstuck from time to time.

5. What subjects will the documentation by xeroc cover as opposed to the documentation aimed at developers?

Let's let Xeroc answer that.  He is free to focus where he feels he can do the most good.

[kenCode]

- thoroughly learn Graphene and its API,
- document it by expanding the existing documentation,
- create friendly tutorials for C++ developers wanting to work with Graphene,
- launch a test network,
- and for the next 2-3 months afterwards play the role of an "ask me anything" expert at our full disposal

Except for
  "- create working examples of "hello world" smart contracts and operations,"
that is exactly what I am doing already for quite some time

Exactly. Without xeroc's docs (hey, that rhymes!) my devs would not be able to understand BitShares for a very long time. Xeroc saved the day.
https://docs.bitshares.eu

[xeroc]

- thoroughly learn Graphene and its API,
- document it by expanding the existing documentation,
- create friendly tutorials for C++ developers wanting to work with Graphene,
- launch a test network,
- and for the next 2-3 months afterwards play the role of an "ask me anything" expert at our full disposal

Except for
  "- create working examples of "hello world" smart contracts and operations,"
that is exactly what I am doing already for quite some time

Anyone willing to help out with the documentations is free to do so. Sources are
open and pull requests are welcome. Read the "Meta" page in the docs.

Required skills:
- solid expertise in C++
- proficiency in spoken and written English

Preferred experience:
- familiarity with the blockchain concept and/or BitShares
- already worked as a CNX contractor

I wish I knew C++ as well as it is required. At least, I can read the code
However, I think I may be able to help out any newcomer by answering most basic
questions about the code (not the specifics though)

Besides that: Well done, let's get some talented coders motivated to work for
BitShares!

[jakub]

@bytemaster @Stan
As you can see, we are attempting to make a first step aimed at organizing ourselves in the area of code development (thus relieving the pressure from CNX).
But paradoxically, during this process of becoming more independent from CNX, we are going to be quite dependent on CNX.

So please help us by answering the questions listed in OP.
A blog post would be the perfect form for this but if that is too demanding, posting your input here will do.

[BitShares News]

Nowadays nobody outsider knows what's happening in Bitshares because everything is in here on the forum. If somebody doesn't know what to search for, it's kinda hard to get onboard with development.

FWIW we've been posting the "big topics" on the forum to Twitter, Reddit, Google+ and on BitSharesNews.info.

Hangouts are nice of course, but I have found it difficult to get anybody outsider listen to an hour of talking.

Send them to BitSharesNews.info to read the transcripts.

[jakub]

It looks to me that ken's approach is valuable but not for this particular task.

For this task we need someone really experienced, someone who knows what type of guidelines are needed the most for less experienced developers.
Someone who has made a lot of mistakes in the past and has learned from them.
Someone who will feel confident enough to ask stupid questions and to bother CNX as long as it takes to extract the answers from them.
And good English writing skills is a must.
So we need someone who has both the technical experience and a talent for explaining things. Maybe this means a team of two people, who will share their pay.

As for ken's access to cheaper (yet more dedicated) developers outside the US and Western Europe - I think this would be ideal in the next stage, once the terrain is mapped out and the quality of the work can be validated.
I guess we won't want our first project done without CNX to be a flop. It's better to overpay on the first job than to tarnish our reputation on the very first step of our independence.

[Samupaha]

I'd like to see more posts on the blog. Nowadays nobody outsider knows what's happening in Bitshares because everything is in here on the forum. If somebody doesn't know what to search for, it's kinda hard to get onboard with development. Hangouts are nice of course, but I have found it difficult to get anybody outsider listen to an hour of talking.

Also the technology page on the website needs continuous updating to reflect what's been done and what's unfinished and when it might get finished.

I've been planning to get some referral income, but I want authoritative texts to link to. I can get people somewhat interested to Bitshares but I can't be the only source of information. It's awkward to say "there is not much info on this right now, try to find something on the forum or listen to this hangout where it was discussed a little bit..."

Let's take one example: Fee Backed Assets. Great tool to fund development and possibility for investors to make money.

Is it mentioned on the website? No, not anywhere.

Is there a mention on the blog that we have this kind of feature coming? No. Actually it hasn't been updated in a long time. There is not even a mention that 2.0 has come out.

If the website and official blog aren't updated, for most people it is sign that development is freezed and nothing is happening so they lose their interest.

[kenCode]

I & think most would support an initiative to bring in new Latvian/other devs as individuals or even ultimately as a team under your management, with your position being paid more generously of course, if that's something you'd consider.

I can tell you one thing, I'll get this stuff built a hell of a lot faster with a little fukn support. need coffee now hmmf

[Empirical1.2]

I have been outsourcing since 1993.
I did have a large office with in-house devs and all that overhead for over 16 years but to stay in business you HAVE to outsource and learn how to write detailed project descriptions with milestones, know who the buzzword "devs" are, know who the high value devs are, learn to simplify your english so that you can communicate with anyone in any country, always crosstrain everyone, know what to pay them (don't pay them too little and certainly do not pay them too much (for numerous reasons)).. the list goes on and on. Fuzzy and I chatted about this for a bit, maybe we can chat about this more during the mumble on friday.
 
Call them slaves if you like, but the fact is, $900 goes a looooong way in some countries and those guys drive nice cars, they certainly do not feel like slaves. They feel very successful. They work their ass off too, stay with me for years, never complain about vacation time, or their work hours, or need a fukn gym membership or health benefits from me either. I could go on and on why I only outsource with freelancers. Do you know how much stuff I could build with $45,000? JEEZ
 
This friday (tomorrow) fuzzy and I will be talking about OPENPOS (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20762.0/all.html) and what that 19K project has built and is still building. Those little 2BTS donations (http://i.imgur.com/JyNtgOU.jpg) at the cash registers and mobile wallets will go a long way for us and provide a hell of a lot of instant liquidity and cashflow so that I can build us even more products and take BitShares to the moon.

Shareholders would go crazy for a second team of developers that worked on what they wanted and for a fraction of CNX. That could add immediate substantial value to BTS in their eyes from a cost, direction and decentralisation perspective. I would probably buy into BTS again.

It would also free up BM & CNX to work on whatever they were passionate about and had funding for, independent of BTS shareholders.

I & think most would support an initiative to bring in new Latvian/other devs as individuals or even ultimately as a team under your management, with your position being paid more generously of course, if that's something you'd consider.

Will be very interested in what you and others can bring to the table in this regard.

[kenCode]

I have been outsourcing since 1993.
I did have a large office with in-house devs and all that overhead for over 16 years but to stay in business you HAVE to outsource and learn how to write detailed project descriptions with milestones, know who the buzzword "devs" are, know who the high value devs are, learn to simplify your english so that you can communicate with anyone in any country, always crosstrain everyone, know what to pay them (don't pay them too little and certainly do not pay them too much (for numerous reasons)).. the list goes on and on. Fuzzy and I chatted about this for a bit, maybe we can chat about this more during the mumble on friday.
 
Call them slaves if you like, but the fact is, $900 goes a looooong way in some countries and those guys drive nice cars, they certainly do not feel like slaves. They feel very successful. They work their ass off too, stay with me for years, never complain about vacation time, or their work hours, or need a fukn gym membership or health benefits from me either. I could go on and on why I only outsource with freelancers. Do you know how much stuff I could build with $45,000? JEEZ
 
This friday (tomorrow) fuzzy and I will be talking about OPENPOS (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20762.0/all.html) and what that 19K project has built and is still building. Those little 2BTS donations (http://i.imgur.com/JyNtgOU.jpg) at the cash registers and mobile wallets will go a long way for us and provide a hell of a lot of instant liquidity and cashflow so that I can build us even more products and take BitShares to the moon.