Author Topic: DEX Proposal  (Read 9316 times)

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Offline Thom

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I suggest that you not let the outspoken shareholders hold you hostage. They claim you are holding them hostage, but that couldn't be further from the truth. They need to learn how to get organized, find talent (developers), and fund development of the projects they want to see developed. This is their problem, not yours alone (or CNX's), and it is better they learn how to properly use Bitshares' features now rather than later. Let them organize the projects, find developers, fund them, etc... to build out the features as they want them built. It will be a good lesson for the community and a proof of concept of sorts for Bitshares' features. They need to learn nothing is free and to stop being so cheap. The first independent developer thread has started and they're already talking about outsourcing the work overseas to some quasi sweatshop worker that will work for $5 a hour... let them learn the hard way.

You were right to deduce that your time will be better spent working on MAS than the DEX. Your idea of mutual aid societies will have a much bigger effect on the Bitshares token price than "finishing" the DEX will. MAS has no competition in the cryptosphere... the DEX has AT LEAST 4 competing projects fighting over a small and limited user base (most of which has already made up their minds one way or the other about Bitshares.) Swing for the fences. These guys can't see your vision right now and how much more lucrative it is than "finishing" the DEX, but they will be thanking you a year from now if you push on with your MAS idea and the user base expands exponentially because of such (along with the value of the BTS token and ironically the liquidity/volume of the DEX.) The PR alone from this will be worth its weight in bitGOLD.

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Sorry Data, but to  characterize this issue as "Holding BM hostage" is so wrong on several levels.

1) First and foremost nobody is taking BM's choice away to do what he wants. BM chose to create BitShares and he can walk away anytime. Of course his rep will be severely impacted, even more than it already has been by the crypto marketplace.

2) BM chose to publish his intentions concerning MAS as well as continually operate in a highly transparent fasion, thus inviting comments from anyone. He has said many things, including his departure from the "If I build it they will come" attitude, but I see MAS as exactly that. Better if his passion drove him to start researching how to do MAS, gaining advocates, sponsors, market research etc FIRST, THEN make an announcement and proposal to act on that information. I think MAS is a good idea, but I also see it as a premature announcement that is just one more in a series of his poor judgement of how shareholders might react.

3) If the shareholders strongly vocalize their desires in a different direction than BM wants to go BM still basically has 3 choices:
     A - Ignore the feedback and do whatever he damned well pleases
     B - Forget the idea and continue with his previous development efforts (and what are those this week? Attract devs? Best DEX?)
     C - Come up with a new plan

I'm actually somewhat surprise DSN, as you're usually the voice of reason when it comes to doing market research and making a solid business plan based on it. Perhaps you have inside information swaying you? But I see no such plan presented, just a concept and a pitch. Part of that plan should be "opportunity costs" for business lost in one market b/c the focus is shifted to another one. All we ask as shareholders is accountable transparency. I thought this forum and specifically this discussion of priorities, DEX / MAS was part of that process.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline GaltReport

A lot of people have expressed interest in having me/CNX focus on the DEX. 

If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 

Otherwise we will have to find other ways to make money.

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I don't think this is unfair and is just what it costs CNX to do more work at this stage.

It would be good to see estimated timelines for each feature.

Given that we can possibly get Latvian/other Devs for $12k a year, I think CNX's focus should also be on trying to create a second team of overseas devs that are outsourced whatever work it is possible for them to handle.

BTS's value would increase substantially with another team or group of developers working on improving BTS at the same time & for much less than US based devs could.

Helping get as many new devs up and running would also free you to work on MAS/personal passion and focus on the more lucrative banking/other contracts CNX has.

I like this idea. why not create a worker proposal to train up a bunch of cheaper devs from eastern europe so that company can compete against CNX.

I think this is the direction Jakub is going, probably at a more realistic place & KenCode seems like someone who could ultimately manage such a team - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20823.0.html

I wouldn't say compete with CNX as new visionary features are something BM & CNX are ideal for, but completing the periphery work at a price BTS can afford as well as the more mundane work, could be ideal for a cheaper group of BTS proficient E. European devs.
Maybe CNX can manage these cheaper, hands-on developer teams for awhile and overtime they may become more self-reliant.


Offline Empirical1.2

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A lot of people have expressed interest in having me/CNX focus on the DEX. 

If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 

Otherwise we will have to find other ways to make money.

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I don't think this is unfair and is just what it costs CNX to do more work at this stage.

It would be good to see estimated timelines for each feature.

Given that we can possibly get Latvian/other Devs for $12k a year, I think CNX's focus should also be on trying to create a second team of overseas devs that are outsourced whatever work it is possible for them to handle.

BTS's value would increase substantially with another team or group of developers working on improving BTS at the same time & for much less than US based devs could.

Helping get as many new devs up and running would also free you to work on MAS/personal passion and focus on the more lucrative banking/other contracts CNX has.

I like this idea. why not create a worker proposal to train up a bunch of cheaper devs from eastern europe so that company can compete against CNX.

I think this is the direction Jakub is going, probably at a more realistic place & KenCode seems like someone who could ultimately manage such a team - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20823.0.html

I wouldn't say compete with CNX as new visionary features are something BM & CNX are ideal for, but completing the periphery work at a price BTS can afford as well as the more mundane work, could be ideal for a cheaper group of BTS proficient E. European devs.



If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline Ben Mason

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What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I suggest that you not let the outspoken shareholders hold you hostage. They claim you are holding them hostage, but that couldn't be further from the truth. They need to learn how to get organized, find talent (developers), and fund development of the projects they want to see developed. This is their problem, not yours alone (or CNX's), and it is better they learn how to properly use Bitshares' features now rather than later. Let them organize the projects, find developers, fund them, etc... to build out the features as they want them built. It will be a good lesson for the community and a proof of concept of sorts for Bitshares' features. They need to learn nothing is free and to stop being so cheap. The first independent developer thread has started and they're already talking about outsourcing the work overseas to some quasi sweatshop worker that will work for $5 a hour... let them learn the hard way.

You were right to deduce that your time will be better spent working on MAS than the DEX. Your idea of mutual aid societies will have a much bigger effect on the Bitshares token price than "finishing" the DEX will. MAS has no competition in the cryptosphere... the DEX has AT LEAST 4 competing projects fighting over a small and limited user base (most of which has already made up their minds one way or the other about Bitshares.) Swing for the fences. These guys can't see your vision right now and how much more lucrative it is than "finishing" the DEX, but they will be thanking you a year from now if you push on with your MAS idea and the user base expands exponentially because of such (along with the value of the BTS token and ironically the liquidity/volume of the DEX.) The PR alone from this will be worth its weight in bitGOLD.

 +5%
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Offline JonnyB

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A lot of people have expressed interest in having me/CNX focus on the DEX. 

If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 

Otherwise we will have to find other ways to make money.

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I don't think this is unfair and is just what it costs CNX to do more work at this stage.

It would be good to see estimated timelines for each feature.

Given that we can possibly get Latvian/other Devs for $12k a year, I think CNX's focus should also be on trying to create a second team of overseas devs that are outsourced whatever work it is possible for them to handle.

BTS's value would increase substantially with another team or group of developers working on improving BTS at the same time & for much less than US based devs could.

Helping get as many new devs up and running would also free you to work on MAS/personal passion and focus on the more lucrative banking/other contracts CNX has.

I like this idea. why not create a worker proposal to train up a bunch of cheaper devs from eastern europe so that company can compete against CNX.
I run the @bitshares twitter handle
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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I suggest that you not let the outspoken shareholders hold you hostage. They claim you are holding them hostage, but that couldn't be further from the truth. They need to learn how to get organized, find talent (developers), and fund development of the projects they want to see developed. This is their problem, not yours alone (or CNX's), and it is better they learn how to properly use Bitshares' features now rather than later. Let them organize the projects, find developers, fund them, etc... to build out the features as they want them built. It will be a good lesson for the community and a proof of concept of sorts for Bitshares' features. They need to learn nothing is free and to stop being so cheap. The first independent developer thread has started and they're already talking about outsourcing the work overseas to some quasi sweatshop worker that will work for $5 a hour... let them learn the hard way.

You were right to deduce that your time will be better spent working on MAS than the DEX. Your idea of mutual aid societies will have a much bigger effect on the Bitshares token price than "finishing" the DEX will. MAS has no competition in the cryptosphere... the DEX has AT LEAST 4 competing projects fighting over a small and limited user base (most of which has already made up their minds one way or the other about Bitshares.) Swing for the fences. These guys can't see your vision right now and how much more lucrative it is than "finishing" the DEX, but they will be thanking you a year from now if you push on with your MAS idea and the user base expands exponentially because of such (along with the value of the BTS token and ironically the liquidity/volume of the DEX.) The PR alone from this will be worth its weight in bitGOLD.

 +5%
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Offline valtr

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Honestly I can not guess if MAS would be better in attracting users, but I think BitShares needs advance in DEX.
Please make a proposal for shareholders voting.

Offline Empirical1.2

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A lot of people have expressed interest in having me/CNX focus on the DEX. 

If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 

Otherwise we will have to find other ways to make money.

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I don't think this is unfair and is just what it costs CNX to do more work at this stage.

It would be good to see estimated timelines for each feature.

Given that we can possibly get Latvian/other Devs for $12k a year, I think CNX's focus should also be on trying to create a second team of overseas devs that are outsourced whatever work it is possible for them to handle.

BTS's value would increase substantially with another team or group of developers working on improving BTS at the same time & for much less than US based devs could.

Helping get as many new devs up and running would also free you to work on MAS/personal passion and focus on the more lucrative banking/other contracts CNX has.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

jakub

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If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 
I appreciate it a lot that you've made this proposal. Even if the price is quite high, at least we are offered a choice.
 
If you spend 75% of your time - how many months (roughly) will it take?
Also, is it safe to assume that you'll need $20k to devote 50% of your time?

Offline morpheus

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Put it to the ultimate test - shareholder vote.  That is the only way you are going to find out which way this project is truly headed.  Find out whether stakeholders want to focus on the dex, mas or both.  Fortunately all the forum disdain for stakeholders doesn't matter with DPOS.  The only thing that matters is stakeholder vote.

The dex needs to be finished... and if we were perhaps to capture a portion of the global derivatives market, then it may never truly be finished.  Mas is just a distraction at this point IMO.

Offline bitacer

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I suggest that you not let the outspoken shareholders hold you hostage. They claim you are holding them hostage, but that couldn't be further from the truth. They need to learn how to get organized, find talent (developers), and fund development of the projects they want to see developed. This is their problem, not yours alone (or CNX's), and it is better they learn how to properly use Bitshares' features now rather than later. Let them organize the projects, find developers, fund them, etc... to build out the features as they want them built. It will be a good lesson for the community and a proof of concept of sorts for Bitshares' features. They need to learn nothing is free and to stop being so cheap. The first independent developer thread has started and they're already talking about outsourcing the work overseas to some quasi sweatshop worker that will work for $5 a hour... let them learn the hard way.

You were right to deduce that your time will be better spent working on MAS than the DEX. Your idea of mutual aid societies will have a much bigger effect on the Bitshares token price than "finishing" the DEX will. MAS has no competition in the cryptosphere... the DEX has AT LEAST 4 competing projects fighting over a small and limited user base (most of which has already made up their minds one way or the other about Bitshares.) Swing for the fences. These guys can't see your vision right now and how much more lucrative it is than "finishing" the DEX, but they will be thanking you a year from now if you push on with your MAS idea and the user base expands exponentially because of such (along with the value of the BTS token and ironically the liquidity/volume of the DEX.) The PR alone from this will be worth its weight in bitGOLD.
+5%

Offline CoinHoarder

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What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I suggest that you not let the outspoken shareholders hold you hostage. They claim you are holding them hostage, but that couldn't be further from the truth. They need to learn how to get organized, find talent (developers), and fund development of the projects they want to see developed. This is their problem, not yours alone (or CNX's), and it is better they learn how to properly use Bitshares' features now rather than later. Let them organize the projects, find developers, fund them, etc... to build out the features as they want them built. It will be a good lesson for the community and a proof of concept of sorts for Bitshares' features. They need to learn nothing is free and to stop being so cheap. The first independent developer thread has started and they're already talking about outsourcing the work overseas to some quasi sweatshop worker that will work for $5 a hour... let them learn the hard way.

You were right to deduce that your time will be better spent working on MAS than the DEX. Your idea of mutual aid societies will have a much bigger effect on the Bitshares token price than "finishing" the DEX will. MAS has no competition in the cryptosphere... the DEX has AT LEAST 4 competing projects fighting over a small and limited user base (most of which has already made up their minds one way or the other about Bitshares.) Swing for the fences. These guys can't see your vision right now and how much more lucrative it is than "finishing" the DEX, but they will be thanking you a year from now if you push on with your MAS idea and the user base expands exponentially because of such (along with the value of the BTS token and ironically the liquidity/volume of the DEX.) The PR alone from this will be worth its weight in bitGOLD.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 05:51:54 am by CoinHoarder »
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Offline NewMine

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Holy shit. This proposal is amazing.

Offline tonyk

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A lot of people have expressed interest in having me/CNX focus on the DEX. 

If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 

Otherwise we will have to find other ways to make money.

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

ohh danny  how much is it gonna cost us for you to not take your ball and continue playing whatever game you like?

how much is it gonna cost us for you to stop crying anytime not everybody kneels in total admiration when you decide that "this game is not so good but the next one is gonna be great"?
 :'( :'( :'(


Do you know what? It is your baby left without a hand (or a leg), for you deciding you are no longer interested enough to work on his non-essential and boring parts...
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 05:01:58 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline btswildpig

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A lot of people have expressed interest in having me/CNX focus on the DEX. 

If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 

Otherwise we will have to find other ways to make money.

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

How about get 30K per months by working for other people/company/big banks/ who wants a DEX and BTS get all the features as to what you implied from the upgrade threads of BTS2.0 ?
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