Author Topic: DEX Proposal  (Read 3688 times)

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Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2016, 03:49:40 pm »
A lot of people have expressed interest in having me/CNX focus on the DEX. 

If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 

Otherwise we will have to find other ways to make money.

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I don't think this is unfair and is just what it costs CNX to do more work at this stage.

It would be good to see estimated timelines for each feature.

Given that we can possibly get Latvian/other Devs for $12k a year, I think CNX's focus should also be on trying to create a second team of overseas devs that are outsourced whatever work it is possible for them to handle.

BTS's value would increase substantially with another team or group of developers working on improving BTS at the same time & for much less than US based devs could.

Helping get as many new devs up and running would also free you to work on MAS/personal passion and focus on the more lucrative banking/other contracts CNX has.

I like this idea. why not create a worker proposal to train up a bunch of cheaper devs from eastern europe so that company can compete against CNX.

I think this is the direction Jakub is going, probably at a more realistic place & KenCode seems like someone who could ultimately manage such a team - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20823.0.html

I wouldn't say compete with CNX as new visionary features are something BM & CNX are ideal for, but completing the periphery work at a price BTS can afford as well as the more mundane work, could be ideal for a cheaper group of BTS proficient E. European devs.



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Offline GaltReport

Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2016, 04:27:04 pm »
A lot of people have expressed interest in having me/CNX focus on the DEX. 

If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 

Otherwise we will have to find other ways to make money.

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I don't think this is unfair and is just what it costs CNX to do more work at this stage.

It would be good to see estimated timelines for each feature.

Given that we can possibly get Latvian/other Devs for $12k a year, I think CNX's focus should also be on trying to create a second team of overseas devs that are outsourced whatever work it is possible for them to handle.

BTS's value would increase substantially with another team or group of developers working on improving BTS at the same time & for much less than US based devs could.

Helping get as many new devs up and running would also free you to work on MAS/personal passion and focus on the more lucrative banking/other contracts CNX has.

I like this idea. why not create a worker proposal to train up a bunch of cheaper devs from eastern europe so that company can compete against CNX.

I think this is the direction Jakub is going, probably at a more realistic place & KenCode seems like someone who could ultimately manage such a team - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20823.0.html

I wouldn't say compete with CNX as new visionary features are something BM & CNX are ideal for, but completing the periphery work at a price BTS can afford as well as the more mundane work, could be ideal for a cheaper group of BTS proficient E. European devs.
Maybe CNX can manage these cheaper, hands-on developer teams for awhile and overtime they may become more self-reliant.


Offline Thom

Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2016, 04:33:18 pm »
What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I suggest that you not let the outspoken shareholders hold you hostage. They claim you are holding them hostage, but that couldn't be further from the truth. They need to learn how to get organized, find talent (developers), and fund development of the projects they want to see developed. This is their problem, not yours alone (or CNX's), and it is better they learn how to properly use Bitshares' features now rather than later. Let them organize the projects, find developers, fund them, etc... to build out the features as they want them built. It will be a good lesson for the community and a proof of concept of sorts for Bitshares' features. They need to learn nothing is free and to stop being so cheap. The first independent developer thread has started and they're already talking about outsourcing the work overseas to some quasi sweatshop worker that will work for $5 a hour... let them learn the hard way.

You were right to deduce that your time will be better spent working on MAS than the DEX. Your idea of mutual aid societies will have a much bigger effect on the Bitshares token price than "finishing" the DEX will. MAS has no competition in the cryptosphere... the DEX has AT LEAST 4 competing projects fighting over a small and limited user base (most of which has already made up their minds one way or the other about Bitshares.) Swing for the fences. These guys can't see your vision right now and how much more lucrative it is than "finishing" the DEX, but they will be thanking you a year from now if you push on with your MAS idea and the user base expands exponentially because of such (along with the value of the BTS token and ironically the liquidity/volume of the DEX.) The PR alone from this will be worth its weight in bitGOLD.

 +5%
+5%

Sorry Data, but to  characterize this issue as "Holding BM hostage" is so wrong on several levels.

1) First and foremost nobody is taking BM's choice away to do what he wants. BM chose to create BitShares and he can walk away anytime. Of course his rep will be severely impacted, even more than it already has been by the crypto marketplace.

2) BM chose to publish his intentions concerning MAS as well as continually operate in a highly transparent fasion, thus inviting comments from anyone. He has said many things, including his departure from the "If I build it they will come" attitude, but I see MAS as exactly that. Better if his passion drove him to start researching how to do MAS, gaining advocates, sponsors, market research etc FIRST, THEN make an announcement and proposal to act on that information. I think MAS is a good idea, but I also see it as a premature announcement that is just one more in a series of his poor judgement of how shareholders might react.

3) If the shareholders strongly vocalize their desires in a different direction than BM wants to go BM still basically has 3 choices:
     A - Ignore the feedback and do whatever he damned well pleases
     B - Forget the idea and continue with his previous development efforts (and what are those this week? Attract devs? Best DEX?)
     C - Come up with a new plan

I'm actually somewhat surprise DSN, as you're usually the voice of reason when it comes to doing market research and making a solid business plan based on it. Perhaps you have inside information swaying you? But I see no such plan presented, just a concept and a pitch. Part of that plan should be "opportunity costs" for business lost in one market b/c the focus is shifted to another one. All we ask as shareholders is accountable transparency. I thought this forum and specifically this discussion of priorities, DEX / MAS was part of that process.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

TravelsAsia

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2016, 04:54:12 pm »
A lot of people have expressed interest in having me/CNX focus on the DEX. 

If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 

Otherwise we will have to find other ways to make money.

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.
Where's percentage based fee? I'm wondering why you keep ignoring BSIP4. Do you think it is worthless?

 +5%

Please create a proposal.

38PTSWarrior

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2016, 05:32:04 pm »
#sharebits “CoinHoarder“ 1 CHATEAUX
Pro CoinHoarder. Also I believe that bytemaster should code away like he wants for best results and to keep the momentum. Flow flow flow.
A lot of voting going on. Maybe too much to get a good picture of what everyone votes.
When everyone here contributes with what he can, then we will get respect from outside.
Discussing things to death, please no, cheers

Offline btstip

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2016, 05:38:07 pm »
Hey 38PTSWarrior, here are the results of your tips...
Curious about ShareBits? Visit us at http://sharebits.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Created by hybridd

TravelsAsia

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2016, 08:28:54 pm »

Offline speedy

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2016, 11:08:49 pm »
A lot of people have expressed interest in having me/CNX focus on the DEX. 

If that is the case, I can create a worker proposal that will fund almost full time DEX development.  It will require about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time. 

Otherwise we will have to find other ways to make money.

What are your thoughts on such a proposal?  We would focus on API + Bond + Maker.

I thought you were working on the DEX. Isnt that what BitShares is supposed to be?

Offline sittingduck

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2016, 04:05:28 am »
He has been working on dex. But he needs to find a sustainable income source to continue. I for one am glad he is looking for options that don't dilute

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2016, 04:59:25 am »
I'm actually somewhat surprise DSN, as you're usually the voice of reason when it comes to doing market research and making a solid business plan based on it. Perhaps you have inside information swaying you? But I see no such plan presented, just a concept and a pitch. Part of that plan should be "opportunity costs" for business lost in one market b/c the focus is shifted to another one. All we ask as shareholders is accountable transparency. I thought this forum and specifically this discussion of priorities, DEX / MAS was part of that process.

I am... there is nothing that has been introduced thus far to suggest otherwise. It all begins with a vision.. followed by planning and then followed by research.

The only take away at this point and why BM is sharing his vision of what he wants to build on Bitshares, is that it is going to help Bitshare grow. Otherwise what business was/is it of ours? He is just excited about realizing a vision he has had for a long time that can now technically be possible.

BM really has no reason to be publishing a business plan or his own market research. Really do you want other communities to just be gobbling it up similar to what happened with BitAssets by implementing their own versions possibly quicker to market?

Seriously, I think everyone really needs to stop focusing on what BM and CNX does.. and really focus on what we (the stakeholders) are going to do with Bitshares. I am glad to see some members of the community finally getting this and starting to make such movements that are happening in other threads. THAT is what our discussion should be about. Everything else is misdirected/misplaced energy.

This thread was a result of that pressure from forum members (I didn't say stakeholders) in my estimation.

Thus my  +5% to some of the sentiments that [member=16778]CoinHoarder[/member] made.
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Offline lovejoy

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2016, 05:22:57 am »
I don't claim to know the best way for you, or anyone, to spend their time; However I for one would be perfectly fine with "about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time."  One way or another, development needs to continue on a multitude of fronts.

I have a hard time imagining how funding the very people who conceived, architected, and developed BitShares (this still not fully explored or understood powerhouse of a blockchain) could be anything but beneficial.

Knowing this crowd, I will be preemptive here and also say I would support a complimentary worker proposal that saw you mentoring other talented developers to help cultivate a plurality of skilled devs within the bts ecosystem.

All this said, a hearty  +5% to what was expressed by [member=16778]CoinHoarder[/member] here as well.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 05:25:04 am by lovejoy »

Offline bitacer

Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2016, 05:29:12 am »
I don't claim to know the best way for you, or anyone, to spend their time; However I for one would be perfectly fine with "about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time."  One way or another, development needs to continue on a multitude of fronts.

I have a hard time imagining how funding the very people who conceived, architected, and developed BitShares (this still not fully explored or understood powerhouse of a blockchain) could be anything but beneficial.

Knowing this crowd, I will be preemptive here and also say I would support a complimentary worker proposal that saw you mentoring other talented developers to help cultivate a plurality of skilled devs within the bts ecosystem.

All this said, a hearty  +5% to what was expressed by [member=16778]CoinHoarder[/member] here as well.

 +5%

Offline xeroc

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2016, 09:34:55 am »
I don't claim to know the best way for you, or anyone, to spend their time; However I for one would be perfectly fine with "about $30K per month to have Val, Ben, James, and I working on the DEX 75% of the time."  One way or another, development needs to continue on a multitude of fronts.

I have a hard time imagining how funding the very people who conceived, architected, and developed BitShares (this still not fully explored or understood powerhouse of a blockchain) could be anything but beneficial.

Knowing this crowd, I will be preemptive here and also say I would support a complimentary worker proposal that saw you mentoring other talented developers to help cultivate a plurality of skilled devs within the bts ecosystem.

All this said, a hearty  +5% to what was expressed by [member=16778]CoinHoarder[/member] here as well.

 +5%
+5%
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline mindphlux

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2016, 09:48:15 am »
I support paying bytemaster and crew 30k USD per month for continuing to improve the DEX
Please consider voting for my witness mindphlux.witness and my committee user mindphlux. I will not vote for changes that affect witness pay.

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Re: DEX Proposal
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2016, 10:20:02 am »
I support paying bytemaster and crew 30k USD per month for continuing to improve the DEX

For me this is also probably worth the money, but a lot here depends on the time span.
How much (roughly) can be done in one month if we decide to employ 75% of CNX workforce for 30k USD / month?


This thread was a result of that pressure from forum members (I didn't say stakeholders) in my estimation.

As BM has not bothered to be more specific, I also have this impression that he actually prefers us to reject this offer.
If we accepted, how would this be reconciled with the manpower needed for Stealth and MAS? This is all very unclear to me.

Maybe this approach is more realistic: after Stealth is completed (Feb/March) and before the work for MAS has started, why don't we come to an agreement to pay CNX 30k per month and have 75% of CNX manpower in that single month devoted to one purpose only: tutorials, FAQs, educational materials, third-party training. In other words, for 30k USD we could set up a Graphene school and increase the number of people with a Graphene skill-set by 100 or 200%.

For me, this 30k USD investment in manpower inside the ecosystem is worth more than any DEX feature that CNX is able to deliver within a period of one month.
It will slow us down by one month, but in exchange it will give us an enormous acceleration afterwards.

[member=5]bytemaster[/member] , what are your thoughts?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 01:35:19 pm by jakub »