Author Topic: Regarding MAS and my Vision  (Read 3234 times)

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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2016, 10:25:06 am »
you have the right to select your way to make profit.
but please push/speed up the decentralizaiton  process of Bitshares.
now we have voting, it's more decentralized than 1.0 stage.
but it is still too centralized, one reason is the voting rule, as each account can vote as many committee members as he/she like. so if one person hold 5% of BTS, he can actually control the committee.
maybe we can restrict that one account can only vote at most 3 committee members, then it will do good to decentralization and prevent dictatorship.

Offline Musewhale

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Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2016, 11:29:27 am »
Originally in your ideal, want to save the financial slaves, is your own  :P :P :P
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Offline woolcii

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Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2016, 11:30:43 am »
cool

Offline abit

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Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2016, 11:49:02 am »
you have the right to select your way to make profit.
but please push/speed up the decentralizaiton  process of Bitshares.
now we have voting, it's more decentralized than 1.0 stage.
but it is still too centralized, one reason is the voting rule, as each account can vote as many committee members as he/she like. so if one person hold 5% of BTS, he can actually control the committee.
maybe we can restrict that one account can only vote at most 3 committee members, then it will do good to decentralization and prevent dictatorship.
Good idea. Rather than asking BM to do this, how about submit a proposal (perhaps a BSIP or "voting" worker proposal)? I think it's not hard to implement the limit but may need some efforts to maintain backward-compatibility.
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Offline Samupaha

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Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2016, 02:29:05 pm »
Within the realm of a DEX there are several business opportunities I could pursue:

1. Become a licensed money transmitter and host our own wallet.  Under this model I would be competing with OpenLedger and others.
2. Create, Market, and Promote Prediction Markets.  Under this model I would be operating something that could be perceived as gambling. This is a business area that is not safe to enter in the US. 
3. Attempt to become a market maker.  This is not my area of expertise and requires significant capital and liquid markets.
4. Build another business on top of the BitShares network.

What about creating new features with FBA and demanding a fair share of the FBAs as a salary? If the feature is successful, you'll get automatic income. You don't have to build the features all by yourself, but only to help others to build their businesses.
MAKER is such an effort, but it seems no much fund has interest in it. See https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/MAKER_BTS

MAKER is still completely Cryptonomex project. I meant more like a consulting job, where the salary is not cash (at least only), but FBAs. So basically Bytemaster will get royalties every time people use those features that he has consulted. If Bitshares will be successful, some of those features will be also very successful and bring lots of money for FBA owners.

The biggest reason MAKER hasn't got any interest is that it isn't marketed yet in any way. Most of the forum users don't know how much worth it is, and pretty much every outsider doesn't even know that it exists.

Offline bitcrab

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Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2016, 02:39:06 pm »
you have the right to select your way to make profit.
but please push/speed up the decentralizaiton  process of Bitshares.
now we have voting, it's more decentralized than 1.0 stage.
but it is still too centralized, one reason is the voting rule, as each account can vote as many committee members as he/she like. so if one person hold 5% of BTS, he can actually control the committee.
maybe we can restrict that one account can only vote at most 3 committee members, then it will do good to decentralization and prevent dictatorship.
Good idea. Rather than asking BM to do this, how about submit a proposal (perhaps a BSIP or "voting" worker proposal)? I think it's not hard to implement the limit but may need some efforts to maintain backward-compatibility.

seems some more discussion are needed before creating a BSIP-issue, let me post in a new thread.

Offline JonnyB

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Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2016, 02:40:21 pm »
"1. Become a licensed money transmitter and host our own wallet.  Under this model I would be competing with OpenLedger and others."

I think you should run your own DEX that competes with openledger. You are in a prime position to do so and everyone would trust you and use it.
then you could sell shares in it once its built and well established in a year or so.
CNX probably have some shares of openledger or similar so it's not so good for them to compete.

[member=5]bytemaster[/member]  can you confirm this, do you or CNX have any shares in openledger?
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Offline Stan

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Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2016, 02:45:16 pm »
Within the realm of a DEX there are several business opportunities I could pursue:

1. Become a licensed money transmitter and host our own wallet.  Under this model I would be competing with OpenLedger and others.
2. Create, Market, and Promote Prediction Markets.  Under this model I would be operating something that could be perceived as gambling. This is a business area that is not safe to enter in the US. 
3. Attempt to become a market maker.  This is not my area of expertise and requires significant capital and liquid markets.
4. Build another business on top of the BitShares network.

What about creating new features with FBA and demanding a fair share of the FBAs as a salary? If the feature is successful, you'll get automatic income. You don't have to build the features all by yourself, but only to help others to build their businesses.

Yes, FBA's are one of the best ways to "Build another business on top of the BitShares network" and, in fact, are central to our business model for Cryptonomex. 

Doing that also drives more traffic to BitShares in the form of usage fees, new member referrals, the need to come to the DEX to trade the underlying FBA's and acquire BTS "fuel", and generally surging network effect.

Most importantly, it breaks out of the overcrowded cryptocurrency tribes and targets completely new markets that have never even heard of bitcoin.  This is the key to conquering cryptospace - grow with support from outside cryptospace.

 



« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 02:58:56 pm by Stan »
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2016, 03:32:53 pm »
The so called community is just a group trap for BM, I like the vision. And honestly it is very important for us to know.

I am no different than anyone else in the community. It isn't like the combined effort of the other 95% of stakeholders is doing significantly more for BitShares than what I have personally funded over the past year.  This is not to downplay the efforts of other community members which have also made huge contributions that are even more disproportionate than mine relative to their stake.

The group trap is nothing but a prisoners dilemma where individuals profit more by defecting than by contributing. If everyone defected then everyone would lose, but if no one defected then everyone would profit more. Fortunately, we have many people in the community, myself included, that do contribute to the greater cause despite the group trap.

All I am doing is calling attention to the obvious fact that incentives are not currently aligned. 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 03:39:26 pm by bytemaster »
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2016, 03:50:03 pm »
I am no different than anyone else in the community. It isn't like the combined
effort of the other 95% of stakeholders is doing significantly more for
BitShares than what I have personally funded over the past year.  This is not to
downplay the efforts of other community members which have also made huge
contributions that are even more disproportionate than mine relative to their
stake.

The group trap is nothing but a prisoners dilemma where individuals profit more
by defecting than by contributing. If everyone defected then everyone would
lose, but if no one defected then everyone would profit more. Fortunately, we
have many people in the community, myself included, that do contribute to the
greater cause despite the group trap.

All I am doing is calling attention to the obvious fact that incentives are not
currently aligned. 
This reminds me of a long lasting discussion of how to fund open source
development.

You guys know Angry birds, I guess. Did you also know that they used an open
source library for their spectacular physics engine and didn't 'invent' it on
their won? Would you belive that they paid ZERO to the developer of that
library?
Now guess what: The developer doesn't even complain because that is the WHOLE
IDEA of open source software.

It feels the same in Bitcoin and BitShares. Some invest time and money out of
curiosity and make the other's shares be worth more eventually. But in the end,
those that DO invest their time to LEAR and CONTRIBUTE get something worth more
and that is KNOWLEDGE and REPUTATION.

[member=5]bytemaster[/member]: do you think we can use the MAS concept to help the open source
community out of their usual funding issue? Lot's of small and great projects
have no means to fund their their work (even if it only was a THANKS token)
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Offline MarkoPaasila

Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2016, 04:18:49 pm »
Sorry about the sidestep, but in reply to this:

[member=5]bytemaster[/member]: do you think we can use the MAS concept to help the open source
community out of their usual funding issue? Lot's of small and great projects
have no means to fund their their work (even if it only was a THANKS token)

I started to learn coding so that I could do something about an idea I have for funding open source projects. It would use bitshares. It's here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,11540.msg152143.html#msg152143


Offline merivercap

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Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2016, 01:26:45 am »
Your decision making process all makes sense [member=5]bytemaster[/member] ..

Glad to hear you're working on something on the Bitshares platform rather than outside although Plasma does sound like a great complementary project.
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