Author Topic: exchange preparing for voting  (Read 9387 times)

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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2016, 02:45:31 pm »
This is a terrible idea. Exchanges didn't expend any capital to acquire that voting stake, so if they so chose, they can attack the network with zero cost using their stake to vote.

 +5% +5% +5% +5% +5%

The only plus side if this starts is stake holders should be moving their funds back to the DEX... unless those holders really do not care about voting.. in which case though they may inadvertently be enabling players to affect their holdings by them using their voting power for self interests instead of BTS interests.
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Offline wallace

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Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2016, 02:48:59 pm »
unrelated info , BTC38's reputation was hurt badly by the DNS merger .

I think exchanges should have a say in bitshares .  because they sell BTS to people , if BTS screw with the users and investors , exchanges will be hurt more and maybe even legally responsible .

those who don't wish exchanges vote with their stake , just withdraw it .

Since when do exchanges have ANY say in what ANY cryptos do? Just because we have a voting system they should just be handed over those rights?

I park my car in a parking garage for a week.. gives them the right to do whatever they want with my car.. take it for spin.. sell it.. use it as collateral for other things?

How many people would park their cars in that garages if that's what was going on?

That is exactly what is about to happen here if exchanges start voting.

No, you can park your car to the other place, people are free to trade BTS on centrelize exchanges or trade on DEX. and I also don't think all centrelize exchange will vote, so you always have a choise if you don't like it.

acutally I'm very interested and want to see what will happen.
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Offline Akado

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Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2016, 02:49:42 pm »
This is nice. Fast forward a few months when BitShares actually competes with these exchanges and they can vote against anything that can harm them at zero cost, while keeping BitShares from evolving. Well thought, definitely  ;)
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Offline lil_jay890

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Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2016, 02:52:59 pm »
unrelated info , BTC38's reputation was hurt badly by the DNS merger .

I think exchanges should have a say in bitshares .  because they sell BTS to people , if BTS screw with the users and investors , exchanges will be hurt more and maybe even legally responsible .

those who don't wish exchanges vote with their stake , just withdraw it .

Since when do exchanges have ANY say in what ANY cryptos do? Just because we have a voting system they should just be handed over those rights?

I park my car in a parking garage for a week.. gives them the right to do whatever they want with my car.. take it for spin.. sell it.. use it as collateral for other things?

How many people would park their cars in that garages if that's what was going on?

That is exactly what is about to happen here if exchanges start voting.

How do you expect to prevent an exchange from voting? It's a moot point unless some sort of manual intervention is done.  They are responsible for the security of the BTS being held on their exchange, so I believe it is fair for them to vote.  And they are using a proxy, so I don't believe voter apathy will be as big of an issue.

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2016, 03:14:16 pm »
unrelated info , BTC38's reputation was hurt badly by the DNS merger .

I think exchanges should have a say in bitshares .  because they sell BTS to people , if BTS screw with the users and investors , exchanges will be hurt more and maybe even legally responsible .

those who don't wish exchanges vote with their stake , just withdraw it .

Since when do exchanges have ANY say in what ANY cryptos do? Just because we have a voting system they should just be handed over those rights?

I park my car in a parking garage for a week.. gives them the right to do whatever they want with my car.. take it for spin.. sell it.. use it as collateral for other things?

How many people would park their cars in that garages if that's what was going on?

That is exactly what is about to happen here if exchanges start voting.

How do you expect to prevent an exchange from voting? It's a moot point unless some sort of manual intervention is done.  They are responsible for the security of the BTS being held on their exchange, so I believe it is fair for them to vote.  And they are using a proxy, so I don't believe voter apathy will be as big of an issue.

"How many people would park their cars in that garages if that's what was going on?"

Not many I believe.. I already outlined how... exchanges would only hurt their own volume... thats all they care about.. they won't do anything that might rock that boat. In this instance one small one has been convinced by someone with some weight to start making such moves. How that is going to work out for them remains to be seen.
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Offline Samupaha

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Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2016, 03:37:09 pm »
I guess you are behind this bitcrab? You have been very vocal against Bytemaster, so you decided to go and urged this exchange (is it Yunbi?) to start voting?

yes, I am behind this, I am not against bytemaster, but I believe Bitshares need more decentralization in decision making.

so I'd like to get more stake into voting.

I am not able to urge anyone, all what I can do is to tell them my ideas and suggest.

Come on, you have been protesting everything that Bytemaster does very actively, this is clearly an attack purely against him.

If you had honestly wanted to help the progress of decentralization you would have asked opinions of other members of the community first. There are very good reasons for why this is not good for Bitshares.

That said, I'm not totally against of exchangest voting. But that would require a few things to happen:
- The exchange informs all customers about this, and preferably also asks them explicitely if this is accetable or not. Did they do it on this case?
- The exchange informs the Bitshares community about this. In this case they didn't.
- The exchange explains their motivation to vote. Are they going to be an active member of the community? Are they going to do more business with Bitshares than just selling BTS? This is really important because exchanges can be our competitors. It might be a serious problem if our competitors start to influence our decisions.
- If exchange is using a proxy, the proxy should explains it's reasons for voting. In this case they are voting laomao who has not published any information of his voting reasoning.

If an exchange is seriously interested in Bitshares and wants to become an active member of the community because they believe in Bitshares, we can welcome them.

But this case is totally fucked up. So what should we do about it? Should we contact Yunbi and ask them to remove their votes?

Offline wallace

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Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2016, 03:50:52 pm »
I guess you are behind this bitcrab? You have been very vocal against Bytemaster, so you decided to go and urged this exchange (is it Yunbi?) to start voting?

yes, I am behind this, I am not against bytemaster, but I believe Bitshares need more decentralization in decision making.

so I'd like to get more stake into voting.

I am not able to urge anyone, all what I can do is to tell them my ideas and suggest.

Come on, you have been protesting everything that Bytemaster does very actively, this is clearly an attack purely against him.

If you had honestly wanted to help the progress of decentralization you would have asked opinions of other members of the community first. There are very good reasons for why this is not good for Bitshares.

That said, I'm not totally against of exchangest voting. But that would require a few things to happen:
- The exchange informs all customers about this, and preferably also asks them explicitely if this is accetable or not. Did they do it on this case?
- The exchange informs the Bitshares community about this. In this case they didn't.
- The exchange explains their motivation to vote. Are they going to be an active member of the community? Are they going to do more business with Bitshares than just selling BTS? This is really important because exchanges can be our competitors. It might be a serious problem if our competitors start to influence our decisions.
- If exchange is using a proxy, the proxy should explains it's reasons for voting. In this case they are voting laomao who has not published any information of his voting reasoning.

If an exchange is seriously interested in Bitshares and wants to become an active member of the community because they believe in Bitshares, we can welcome them.

But this case is totally fucked up. So what should we do about it? Should we contact Yunbi and ask them to remove their votes?

why? exchanges have the right to do anything they want. they only have responsibility to their users, it can do above things you want, it can do not. if a wallet have BTS, it's one of the community and have the right to vote.
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2016, 04:56:16 pm »
I guess you are behind this bitcrab? You have been very vocal against Bytemaster, so you decided to go and urged this exchange (is it Yunbi?) to start voting?

yes, I am behind this, I am not against bytemaster, but I believe Bitshares need more decentralization in decision making.

so I'd like to get more stake into voting.

I am not able to urge anyone, all what I can do is to tell them my ideas and suggest.

Come on, you have been protesting everything that Bytemaster does very actively, this is clearly an attack purely against him.

If you had honestly wanted to help the progress of decentralization you would have asked opinions of other members of the community first. There are very good reasons for why this is not good for Bitshares.

That said, I'm not totally against of exchangest voting. But that would require a few things to happen:
- The exchange informs all customers about this, and preferably also asks them explicitely if this is accetable or not. Did they do it on this case?
- The exchange informs the Bitshares community about this. In this case they didn't.
- The exchange explains their motivation to vote. Are they going to be an active member of the community? Are they going to do more business with Bitshares than just selling BTS? This is really important because exchanges can be our competitors. It might be a serious problem if our competitors start to influence our decisions.
- If exchange is using a proxy, the proxy should explains it's reasons for voting. In this case they are voting laomao who has not published any information of his voting reasoning.

If an exchange is seriously interested in Bitshares and wants to become an active member of the community because they believe in Bitshares, we can welcome them.

But this case is totally fucked up. So what should we do about it? Should we contact Yunbi and ask them to remove their votes?

exactly speaking, I am against bytemaster in some cases, but in most cases I support him, otherwise I would have left Bitshares for months,I think Bitshares need him, I think the relation between bytemaster and committee should be as that between CEO and board, or President and Congress.

Opposition make sense, especially in bitshares community where there are too much simple followers.

yes, things should be better if there's more communication in advance, but it is not late even the communication begin from now.

I'd like to provide more info about yunbi according to my understanding about them and communication with them, I don't guarantee it's exact.

yunbi is an exchange that believes very much on decentralization and application value,   they have taken off litecoin and dogecoin because they don't think these coins make sense, they are only simple altcoins.

they do not want to be active members in community, because they do not have so much time/resource for BTS, they get many information of BTS from my side, they vote mainly because they would like to help to make the committee more diversified/dencentralized.

laomao is the COO of yunbi, he do not have much time to spend on BTS. if you think community know too little about laomao, maybe I can suggest them to set me as proxy?

there is a QQ group of yunbi, 2442579, if you need to contact them and get known more, you can join to find laomao and the CEO.

don't complain why they do not want to spend time on BTS, they have told me:"we really hope BTS can have a good future, but we have little confidence on this, we are not sure it is decentralized, we can keep the trading pair, but we do not want to pay more resource on it."

they now only put their hot wallet in voting, they may put also the cold wallet in voting next week.







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Offline CoinHoarder

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Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2016, 05:03:12 pm »
I prefer that all exchanges set proxies. Bitshares is more secure that way and there is more of a balance of power in regards to voting. If you don't like the proxy an exchange chooses then switch exchanges.

I personally feel so strongly about this that I think we should force exchanges to set a proxy by only using the ones that do.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 05:04:52 pm by CoinHoarder »
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Offline btswolf

Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2016, 05:24:18 pm »
I personally feel so strongly about this that I think we should force exchanges to set a proxy by only using the ones that do.
By lending your money to an exchange you are not only accepting the counterparty risk but also lending your voting power and every right that is linked to that stake.
That`s the game.

Offline Pheonike

Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2016, 05:57:44 pm »
unrelated info , BTC38's reputation was hurt badly by the DNS merger .

I think exchanges should have a say in bitshares .  because they sell BTS to people , if BTS screw with the users and investors , exchanges will be hurt more and maybe even legally responsible .

those who don't wish exchanges vote with their stake , just withdraw it .

Since when do exchanges have ANY say in what ANY cryptos do? Just because we have a voting system they should just be handed over those rights?

I park my car in a parking garage for a week.. gives them the right to do whatever they want with my car.. take it for spin.. sell it.. use it as collateral for other things?

How many people would park their cars in that garages if that's what was going on?

That is exactly what is about to happen here if exchanges start voting.

People park their money in banks and that's exactly what they do.

Offline vegolino

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Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2016, 06:56:57 pm »
This is a terrible idea. Exchanges didn't expend any capital to acquire that voting stake, so if they so chose, they can attack the network with zero cost using their stake to vote.
+5%

Offline bytemaster

Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2016, 09:15:35 pm »
Whenever there is voting power threating the king bytemaster will lead to the rule changes. BTS is bytemaster's private toy, he won't allow being challenged.

I welcome the challenge and feel no need to control.  I just try to help.
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Offline lil_jay890

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Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2016, 09:38:28 pm »
Whenever there is voting power threating the king bytemaster will lead to the rule changes. BTS is bytemaster's private toy, he won't allow being challenged.

I welcome the challenge and feel no need to control.  I just try to help.

Having the exchanges vote should bring in more stability to bitshares... changes should be a process and debated by as many players as possible.  This is a good thing.

Offline Akado

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Re: exchange preparing for voting
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2016, 09:39:56 pm »
On the bright side, can we use that for some marketing? I mean, most exchanges don't care about coins, they just add the ones with volume with profit.

This way we can claim that exchanges actually care about BitShares. That means something.
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