Author Topic: Lessons Learned from Alt Coins  (Read 8471 times)

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Offline BTSdac

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Offline bitacer

Aim high , do not settle only for speculation.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 06:36:01 pm by bitacer »

Offline bitacer

Non-profit foundations can utilize and benefit from open ledger and stable MPAs such as bitUSD .

Offline bitacer

Initiate a great PR campaign , get a well known respectable charity to use the platform since its open and suitable for that purpose . Become the first to be used at a time of  a major earth quake or natural disaster or a refugee crises somewhere in the world,  most charities are tax exempt anyways. As a community set up funds for that purpose , offer little support to those who are in need,  advertise yourself as a platform where good deeds are achieved. Use major events as occasions ...

Offline Empirical1.2

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Lessons learned

1. Long term development costs.

Obviously as sound money, you can't dilute for development at a later stage without destroying your core value proposition so a new coin needs a development budget baked into allocation model. 

DASH and new currency Decred do this via a reward subsidy and it is also possible to pre-allocate a % in a POS coin with a long term release schedule.

However a currency gains value from certainty, stability and very few changes, so the development budget can actually be quite conservative & ongoing basic development should actually be quite limited/restrained imo. 

2. Utility, Utility, Utility.

In property it's location, location, location. With a currency the key value is utility.

A currency gains value whenever it is added to an exchange/payment processor/large retailer/Atms/Vending Machines etc.

I suggest a coin should have 'Utility Reward Milestones' built in.   

These would incentivize third parties who are capable of adding utility value. It also creates a compelling future because as the coin grows in value those rewards will become large enough to incentivize even the biggest players to integrate the coin, especially over otherwise equal competitors without such incentives.

3. Charity - The Moral High Ground

Imagine 5% of total allocation was awarded to the 100 most widely supported charities in the world.
0.05% Each paid out over 50 years from the date the charity's official twitter/other account announces they'd like to start receiving their donation.

At Bitcoin's size this would be $3 million per charity or >$50 000 a year.

Now you have a global currency with a conscious. Not a currency only for the benefit of central bankers, governments, speculators or early adopters but one that helps make the world a better place. Imagine if at the end of every Bitcoin news segment, they also had to mention that with this new global currency that 5% was allocated to the world's most popular wildlife, children and other charities...

Again very few charities would have heard about or will claim during the growth phase of the coin, so you get all the positivity associated with this addition without any price pressure early on.

4. Bitcoin Sharedrop

I'm not a big fan of sharedrops but a large BTC sharedrop would be popular and well supported & ultimately help distribute the coin. However because BTC has such a high value vs. a new coin. The sharedrop would only be worth 1/2000th or less of a person's BTC position, so very few would claim in the first few years. Thereby giving you the PR sharedrop benefit but without the price suppressive effects associated with most sharedrops/giveaways.

5. POW

Pow is extremely wasteful but extremely popular. I think Coinhoarders approach is a good one, with a rapid tapering off of POW rewards over time.

Quote
Ca. Use several different mining algorithms, with each having an their own separate difficulty and the same chance to find the next block (implemented in several coins.. MyriadCoin was the first)
Cb. Use at least one algorithm per different types of mining hardware (one for Scrypt ASICs, one for SHA256 ASICs, one for CPUs, one for ATI GPUs, one for NVIDIA GPUs, etc..)
Cc. The point of this is to allow people with all types of minin hardware to participate so it is inclusive of everyone.

6. Putting the supply in the Name '21 Million' / '2 Billion'

If the coin will have any element of POS there will always be the fear that supply could be changed, even though this will be detrimental to value. By somehow incorporating the total supply into the brand name you would further ensure that supply changes would be untenable.

Even for newcomers to BTC, this is one of the most popular questions. How many will there be? Who creates them out of thin air? So branding these non physical coins in reference to the total supply could be positive here as well. 

7. Masternodes/Lock Up Rewards.

Everything above is about addressing the demand side of the equation. Creating a popular, distributed currency that will have development support and increase in utilty over time.

However just as important is addressing the supply side. Once the POW reward rapidly tapers off, I think a currency should have a very cost effective system and also have built in rewards in the early years for reducing available supply.

Examples:
- If you crowfund for some initial equity, claiming that equity before year 3 should be heavily penalized.
- Up to 5% could be set aside for those willing to lock up their stake for 12 months in the first few years.

8. Referral Programme

The referral programme is a good concept but currently BTS doesn't have a compelling product/service to sell which is also the reason BTS wouldn't make a compelling addition to Microsoft Azure's BAAS yet either.

With a currency, the currency is the product so the referral programme would work quite well.

As a crypto-currency you would have to have competitive or percentage based TX fees, which may not make the referral programme lucrative for many Western marketers initially, which is OK.

9. USP  Unique Selling Point

For BTSX it was the idea that a limited currency could be profitable and BitAssets.  I would suggest a currency with only 4 BitAssets USD, Yuan, Gold, Silver. So the value proposition is very simple and clear.

A limited, high performance, low waste currency that also lets users and retailers hold balances in USD, Yuan, Gold and Silver.

I previously mentioned how Auroracoin achieved a short term $1 Billion valuation, through having very limited supply on the market and a compelling USP (Attempting to bootstrap Iceland, a community/economy that seemed small enough for a popular crypto-currency to realistically target and one that was jaded with traditional banking after their recent banking crisis).The market knows now that sharedrops of this kind suppress price and don't create adoption, however it's a good example of how a great USP works.

Imagine if instead of sharedropping a large amount of Aurora on the few hundred thousand Icelandic citizens, Auroracoin had instead directed the incentives to a few hundred Icelandic businesses & a payment processor only if they agreed to accept Auroracoin as payment for an agreed time period. Then you would have a currency that was accepted at hotels, restaurants, shops and vending machines all around Iceland and could easily be converted to Krona. So while I would direct the utility rewards suggested above primarily at third parties that already at least accept BTC, it may be worth revisiting the idea of creating a USP around bootstrapping a specific community but with a focus on providing currency utility within that community,
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 05:51:35 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline Musewhale

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Offline bitcrab

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share 2 stories first:

1.several days ago, I visited ***pay.com to seek cooperation chance, after 2 hours told me "we do not want to introduce BTS things, it is a little complex, there is a big learning cost for our programmers, more important, we do not feel safe for BTS, there's always unexpected terrible issues happen".

2.after you posted the POW blog, many discussion in China QQ group, rumor spread that dilution will come, and some BTC guys mocked that POS failed. - the blog is just a simple discussion on some ideas, but it cause these only reflect that the market are not confident on BTS.

I think we should:

1. build a real decentralized infrastructure, which will convince user that BTS platform are stable and security, not under any single people's control,then they will feel safe.

2. reduce transfer fees, the high fee make no sense with such a low transfer volume.

these are the basis for marketing, and is the best marketing.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 12:06:21 pm by bitcrab »
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Offline Geneko

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From me lesson about alt coins is a lesson about one simple idea.
Lesson about alt coins is the lesson about money.

Its all about fundamentals.
And as Mises explained, money is the most marketable commodity.

Alt coins are or should be computer based commodities that should be simply exchanged true internet.
In order to be a commodity its should provide some property of value to the people. In Pow coins it represents proof of computer work.
In Pos coins it represents proof of previous computer work. In both cases these are certificates for wide accepted property of value.
The ultimate alt coin should provide certificates of greater value to people, probably some kind of human work.

It makes me wonder. Imagine proof of text typing token. Would it be successful alt coin. I bet it would be.

Offline fibbleblock

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Someone suggested I post this from reddit.com/r/bitshares. My original comments on bootstrapping Btishares are in the thread https://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/401wqp/any_chance_of_bitshares_going_up/ as comment https://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/401wqp/any_chance_of_bitshares_going_up/cyrzvt2

I'd add that a possible spin on the original idea would be to create a simple open source market project, hosted on github that runs through TOR  and can be installed and run by any willing participant to offer whatever they desire (legal or otherwise). You would then heavily promote the availability of this free, no strings attached, idiot proof project on reddit.com/r/darknetmarkets and other forums - One advantage of this is that it could be funded within the Bitshares eco-system with clear development goals and a time-frame (E.g. 3 months for an initial offering).

Crucial requirements would be;

-> Heavy integration of BitUSD and Bitcoin (no plugin architecture for alts, this should be a product that is free but designed to promote Bitshares). Can be forked, but commits should centre on tying in Bitshares features.

-> Hedging (The big use case); Allowing a vendor who receives an order in Bitcoin to hedge into BitUSD. BitUSD could be supplied by either the exchange's personal balance or by soliciting P2P funds in exchange for any hedge premium the vendor may pay. Note; the flawed centralized hedging implementation provided by Silkroad is described here; https://www.deepdotweb.com/2015/01/25/silk-goxed-how-dpr-used-mtgox-for-hedging-lost-big/ - Bitshares can pretty much completely avoid this scenario...

-> Integration of a P2P liquidity system similar to that offered on the Bitcoin exchange Bitfinex. This would allow any instance of the marketplace to solicit funds in exchange for a hedge premium (say 4%) to offer those vendors that want to hedge their consumer sales. Possible amendments would allow vendors to cash out hedged orders as Bitcoin or BitUSD (See below)

-> Ability to withdraw in Bitcoin or BitUSD (and possibly Bitshares).

-> Ability to exchange BitUSD for Bitcoin within the market. Bitshares will gain adoption, but the fiat on/off ramps will remain overwhelmingly Bitcoin until critical mass is reached. Any vendor holding hedged BitUSD would need to have confidence they could exchange to Bitcoin for withdrawal to enable the transition to fiat.

-> Easy to install and configure; Obviously, if a user wants to sell illegal wares it's on them to understand the technologies and not to rely on any one offering themselves, however getting *something* running easily is a psychological plus and makes it more likely you'll see marketplaces with a bitshares backend proliferating.

If this offering were tabled and developed with a targeted marketing campaign at the only sector that is really driving crypto, Bitshares would likely start seeing the growth is so desperately deserves.

A currency only works when there is a network effect of people who trust and use it. Bitshares doesn't have that yet, but by targeting the market that most uses crypto in a real-world setting this could be remedied.

There is no other way to *make* Bitshares popular unfortunately and history is littered with technically competent solutions waylaid by their inferior counterparts. Don't let it happen to Bitshares - decentralized USD is just awesome and there is a very real need for it!

Offline merivercap

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re: Dogecoin

It was popular in the US before, but doesn't seem as active here anymore.  Oddly enough China seems like the big player.  Nearly 70% of the price spike volume was coming from BTC38.

Here is a thread on how Doge might have been introduced to many in China: https://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/3o2t5x/dogecoin_and_china/

People are familiar with Doge in China and that's huge.  There might even be a cultural connection with the Shiba Inu..lol

BTW a small amount of Dogecoin popped up in my BTC38 account so there might be a marketing push going on right now.....maybe they are giving people Doge, spreading the word and helping pump up prices..  Anyways China markets are getting crushed and crypto is generally a good safe haven asset anyways and so it's a good opportunity to promote Doge this way. 

Can someone from China comment?  BTW what is going on with the Yuan?  It seems the government is trying to support it by selling a lot of US dollar reserves.  There seems to have been massive debt money created the last few years in China as well and a lot of it is probably going bad...anyways.

Takeaway?  It seems China is very important.

doge marketing is good . but the capital that supports it is more important . especially those LTC miners who get doge on the way. the liquidity on doge is huge compare to bitshares .

if not capital support it , you can advertise it all you want , all people will see that it's not worth involving in it .

Bitcoin  and  doge are where it is today because of capital , not because of some freedom lovers and cute dog lovers .,

in fact , bitshares is as famous as doge in China . but bitshares is famous for its dilution now .

Ah yes that makes sense.  Thanks for the input.  The LTC merged mining is significant and does create a lot of liquidity.   That's another advantage of POW because it does attract mining capital whether or not people think it's wasteful.     Hopefully we can change the perception of Bitshares, but the awareness is just as important sometimes.   As they say any publicity is good publicity. 

I'd like add this last point:

* Launch first in china, then consider the rest of the world

Yeah China is a great market for crypto because the learning curve is so much lower for adoption


BTW a small amount of Dogecoin popped up in my BTC38 account so there might be a marketing push going on right now.....maybe they are giving people Doge, spreading the word and helping pump up prices..  Anyways China markets are getting crushed and crypto is generally a good safe haven asset anyways and so it's a good opportunity to promote Doge this way. 
Due to late of upgrading BTS to 2.0, and to attract more deposit/volume after they upgraded BTS to 2.0, BTC38 recompense the customers who have a BTS balance in their exchange at a dedicated time by dropping some Dogecoin to the customer's account at 10:1 ratio.


Thanks for the clarification.  Nice of them to do that..and they are effectively marketing Doge to BTS users.. Wow. much coolness. :)   
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Offline abit

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BTW a small amount of Dogecoin popped up in my BTC38 account so there might be a marketing push going on right now.....maybe they are giving people Doge, spreading the word and helping pump up prices..  Anyways China markets are getting crushed and crypto is generally a good safe haven asset anyways and so it's a good opportunity to promote Doge this way. 
Due to late of upgrading BTS to 2.0, and to attract more deposit/volume after they upgraded BTS to 2.0, BTC38 recompense the customers who have a BTS balance in their exchange at a dedicated time by dropping some Dogecoin to the customer's account at 10:1 ratio.
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Offline monsterer

I'd like add this last point:

* Launch first in china, then consider the rest of the world
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Offline btswildpig

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re: Dogecoin

It was popular in the US before, but doesn't seem as active here anymore.  Oddly enough China seems like the big player.  Nearly 70% of the price spike volume was coming from BTC38.

Here is a thread on how Doge might have been introduced to many in China: https://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/3o2t5x/dogecoin_and_china/

People are familiar with Doge in China and that's huge.  There might even be a cultural connection with the Shiba Inu..lol

BTW a small amount of Dogecoin popped up in my BTC38 account so there might be a marketing push going on right now.....maybe they are giving people Doge, spreading the word and helping pump up prices..  Anyways China markets are getting crushed and crypto is generally a good safe haven asset anyways and so it's a good opportunity to promote Doge this way. 

Can someone from China comment?  BTW what is going on with the Yuan?  It seems the government is trying to support it by selling a lot of US dollar reserves.  There seems to have been massive debt money created the last few years in China as well and a lot of it is probably going bad...anyways.

Takeaway?  It seems China is very important.

doge marketing is good . but the capital that supports it is more important . especially those LTC miners who get doge on the way. the liquidity on doge is huge compare to bitshares .

if not capital support it , you can advertise it all you want , all people will see that it's not worth involving in it .

Bitcoin  and  doge are where it is today because of capital , not because of some freedom lovers and cute dog lovers .,

in fact , bitshares is as famous as doge in China . but bitshares is famous for its dilution now .
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Offline Shentist

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in my opinion it doesn't matter if you use POW or POS

POW "was" good to get the first people on the boat. the people who are understanding more.

this is not really needed anymore, because POS is better in confirmation the transactions, so the question should be

"How can we get new people on board?"

- the first idea was a referral program, but i am not sure if this will not hinder us, because of this we need to keep high transaction fees

at the moment we need something that facebook or whatsapp used to get more people on board. if you use facebook or whatsapp you "want" that your friends
are using it too, so if you get 1 he will try to convince many people to do the same. the user cares little of insentives.

take a look at @JonnyBitcoin project telebit.org. With this service i can use bitcoin on telegram without the need to have my own bitcoin wallet. i have nothing to install etc.

so with this service you add value to the users of telegram, because now you could use bitcoin without the hard part, saving my own wallet. we should think
about something similar and do it for whatsapp and telegram for bitshares.

Offline xeroc

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Dan, I think you're very brilliant, but way ahead of the market.
Everyone that understands the implications of MAS should know that by now. But IMHO this has always been a big 'issue' of this community. The whole community is like a think tank and CNX may just be 'too' innovative. Similar to how universities dont havr as much funding as reasearch departments of big companies (if they werent supported by the gov. most universities could probably not do as much reasearch as they do)

Just my 2cents