Author Topic: Radical ideas for liquidity  (Read 11339 times)

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Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2016, 04:44:06 pm »
I agree with applying an easy to implement radical solution to get a single BitAsset tightly pegged and cost effective to enter/exit.

I think there are varying ideas on how best to achieve it but I believe we should be trying the most simple to implement + cost effective measure that is likely to work on a single BitAsset & then gauge the results.

It shouldn't take to long to gauge it's efficacy and try something else if it's not.

We should also work on a more long term sustainable solution to the problem.





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Offline Akado

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2016, 06:02:58 pm »
Committee should start by using the fees from the pool they collected. That would be a start. With these pumps and our volume reaching $50k that could help us go even higher. It's a chance we might not get!

But atm everyone will be busy discussing fees and once again, ignoring this.

Committee, could you please discuss how to use the fee pool? With this amount of volume this is a good chance!
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Offline Bhuz

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Offline puppies

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2016, 10:52:51 pm »
A worker proposal funding committee-trade, which then sets a sell wall and a buy wall held by a bot would be perfect.  We don't need to worry about our bot making money.  It would be a service provided by the blockchain, and the only dilution would be funds that the account lost due to taking bad trades.

I would like to see sell walls at 2% above feed, and buywalls at 99% of feed.  If we could guarantee the ability to purchase USD, CNY, and BTC at 2% above feed then our gateways could use real bitassets rather than UIA's.  They would just need to charge a 2% transfer fee.  The closer we can get to the peg, the lower they could get their fees. 

I think BTC or USD would be the best market to start with.

Best of all this requires no real development.  I could write the bot myself, and would do so free of charge.  We could solve our problems ourselves without having to wait for the devs.
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Offline CoinHoarder

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2016, 06:42:24 am »
snip

Your posts confuse me. I am never certain if you are being sincere or sarcastic. Were you in favor of my proposal or not... I am confused.

I say we kick Nubits/Nushares in the teeth. If we implement a proposal similar to what I have proposed, then we will have a superior product in multiple ways. As it currently stands I cannot say that. They have done a much better job at liquidity which is pretty much the only thing people seem to care about (judging by Nubit/Tether/etc volume). I at first dismissed Nushares/Nubits, but have come to respect their implementation. Say what you will about it, but it works and it works well. I am now an investor in B&C and Nushares, simply because Bitshares has blown its lead, Nubits is highly liquid and popular (a lot more so than bitUSD), and I wanted to hedge my bet. I could see either implementation winning out, but I would prefer Bitshares win the war since it was my first love (as far as DEXs go).  8)

My proposal would give us a leg up on them because the liquidity would be provided autonomously... their liquidity system is very convoluted and requires the cooperation of a lot of people. We also have more than just a few FIAT derivatives, and can function as a well diversified exchange with GOLD, NASDAQ, etc... I personally want to use our exchange for many different assets but am not willing to pay the huge premium for things like gold, silver, etc.. I really want to purchase other commodities such as oil, stocks, and stock indexes but I can't.

As I mentioned in the first post.. it can be a temporary solution to liquidity and we can take the training wheels off if the exchange gains natural liquidity. It is a means to an end. It is intended to jump start activity on the exchange.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 06:58:18 am by CoinHoarder »
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2016, 07:48:15 am »
I agree with applying an easy to implement radical solution to get a single BitAsset tightly pegged and cost effective to enter/exit.

I think there are varying ideas on how best to achieve it but I believe we should be trying the most simple to implement + cost effective measure that is likely to work on a single BitAsset & then gauge the results.

It shouldn't take to long to gauge it's efficacy and try something else if it's not.

We should also work on a more long term sustainable solution to the problem.
How about we run a contest similar to the one on the testnet payed by a worker proposal. Something along the lines:

- 2 weeks preparations time
- fund your account with your own money
- trade for 4 weeks
- everyone can proof your profits on the chain
- the winner gets $1k paid by either the committee or a worker proposal
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Offline karnal

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2016, 11:15:03 am »
The dex is not a decentralized exchange without a functioning smartcoin. Trading UIAs is nice but can be done faster and cheaper on poloniex.
We are 4 months in to bts 2.0 and none of the smartcoins are liquid. Something big needs to change.

Before even reading the rest of the thread... this x 1 million.

Offline karnal

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2016, 11:16:26 am »
- Abandon all smartcoins except BitUSD to drive liquidity to it and then think about adding another smartcoin in a years time.

Spoke too soon  :o

Offline tbone

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2016, 05:41:59 pm »
I've been saying from the start that we have too many versions of BTC, which is killing liquidity and adding to another problem i.e. a dizzying array of trading pairs.  So unifying the BTC tokens will solve more than one problem.  More on that below.

Regarding BitAssets, I don't think we need to abandon any, but perhaps the only BitAssets that should trade against BTS, at least for now, are BTC, CNY and USD.  Further, aside from unifying the BTC tokens, we should focus on supporting the creation of (and providing liquidity for) only one BItAsset, USD.  In addition to that, all other BitAssets aside from CNY (e.g. BitEUR, BitGold, BitSilver, BitOIL, etc.) should trade against USD only.  I'm 99% sure [member=5]bytemaster[/member] made a suggestion similar to this during a mumble session, so maybe he can talk about what it would take to make this happen. 

Back to unifying BTC.  This is critical.  But our hands have been tied because gateways all want their own tokens so they can capture the trading fees.  On one hand, I can't really blame them.   On the other hand, it defeats one of the purposes of the DEX -- pooled liquidity.  And since we desperately need liquidity, we MUST unify the BTC tokens into one main BTC asset that everything else trades against (aside from the BitAssets that trade only against BitUSD, as mentioned above). 

So how can we satisfy these seemingly conflicting interests?  I have an idea.  What if the fees generated by trades against the unified BTC asset were split among the gateways based on the % of BTC each is responsible for getting onto the DEX?   So let's say 10% of the BTC is on the DEX due to gateway services provided by metaexchange, 10% due to blocktrades, 20% due to OL, and the remaining 60% was purchased directly on the DEX.  So any trade against BTC would then be split based on those percentages.  I'm not sure how this would be implemented, but I'm sure it's possible and we need to do something!

By the way, keep in mind that the measures I'm proposing above must be done in conjunction with some of the other liquidity-building measures, as proposed by [member=37127]JonnyBitcoin[/member] and others.  Thoughts?

Offline karnal

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2016, 06:15:49 pm »
Regarding BitAssets, I don't think we need to abandon any, but perhaps the only BitAssets that should trade against BTS, at least for now, are BTC, CNY and USD

BTC is highly volatile.
CNY is not exactly stable right now.
USD is backed by a government ~$20 trillion in debt and a Federal Reserve not shy to keep on printing.

SGD, CHF, GOLD and SILVER maybe? I don't think we should do away with EUR/USD/BTC/CNY, to clarify. These (EUR/etc) are good for other things.. guess I'm looking at this more like a saver.

Totally with you on the unifying the BTC tokens though. And I see the same thing coming with OPEN.EUR etc. Soon enough there'll be dozens of markets for the same thing, all of them centralized solutions.. precisely the problem smartcoins proposed to solve.


edit: to clarify, I think serving as a stable store of value is one of the things missing from the crypto-space right now - and as you can likely tell from the text above, I don't think EUR/USD/CNY is the currency to do so.

There's hundreds of options already for speculating, but little to none to act as (stable/predictable) stores of value in the cryptospace (with one or two exceptions, but by and large the market is up for grabs). I think this might be an interesting market to capture.. all other crypto-traders coming in and out of the BTS ecosystem to store their profits while waiting for the right move to get back in the game, that kind of thing.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 06:51:13 pm by karnal »

Offline yvv

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2016, 06:45:09 pm »
Quote
- Abandon all smartcoins except BitUSD to drive liquidity to it and then think about adding another smartcoin in a years time.

This is already being done by bitcash.

Offline yvv

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2016, 06:50:36 pm »
"Abandon all smartcoins except BitUSD to drive liquidity to it and then think about adding another smartcoin in a years time."
Definitely NOT. We don't use Dollars over here in Europe and neither does China.
 
The POS systems need AT LEAST those top 3 as liquid choices:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMECm8bqKaE&index=5&list=PLjbx3qSmDe7RYkRMIEuFyYyG7_vvKgou0
 
The free market UIA's will also become liquid as demand increases.
Just because it's slow to grow doesn't mean it's broke.

Focusing on bitUSD makes sense for establishing robust on/off ramps. This is the major obstacle for using bitshares now. Of course we will eventually need markets between major fiat currencies.

Offline speedy

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2016, 11:23:40 pm »
Best way to add liquidity: Autobridging

For example at the moment OpenBTC:USD has 0 orders. However OpenBTC can be traded for BTS via OpenBTC:BTS, which can be traded for USD at BTS:USD.

Therefore autobriding could combine those 2 operations into one atomic operation, and the GUI could automatically fill in the OpenBTC:USD market with the offers that can be filled by those atomisized operations.

The result is that all those separate UIA tokens on Openledger automatically become integrated. Of course the spread would be higher, but it would at least kickstart the OpenBTC:USD etc markets.

I asked BM a while back about whether Autobriding could appear in BitShares, and there were technical details to do with how order matching is done. Perhaps these are no longer the case in 2.0?

The concept comes from Ripple: https://wiki.ripple.com/Autobridging

Offline yvv

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2016, 11:38:14 pm »
The concept comes from Ripple: https://wiki.ripple.com/Autobridging

This is one of two best thing which ripple has. The other one is path finding, which means that you can have whatever asset in your wallet, and you can send payments in any other asset to receivers wallet, and the system finds the best exchange path for you.

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Re: Radical ideas for liquidity
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2016, 11:46:49 pm »
Best way to add liquidity: Autobridging
...
The concept comes from Ripple: https://wiki.ripple.com/Autobridging

yup.  Here's an old thread.  never went anywhere.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15118.msg195232.html#msg195232