Author Topic: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal  (Read 42433 times)

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Offline Shentist

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #135 on: January 28, 2016, 11:06:00 pm »
i am right that the tradingfees are not going to the referrals?

i think the real problem is that, not every fee is shared with the referral.

i agree that we should not change every day something. makes no sense if we want to get more people on board.

but it is obvious that our community lack the bigger picture

"in which business are?"

i think this is the fundamental problem here.

to pay for BIPS10 is the way better approach. We are more fexible this way. I think it is or was a mistake to not consider that 1 set of transferfee would be enough.

Offline abit

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #136 on: January 28, 2016, 11:24:15 pm »
i am right that the tradingfees are not going to the referrals?

i think the real problem is that, not every fee is shared with the referral.
Trading fee? You mean %-fee? If so, it's set by the issuer and go to the issuer for sure, why referrals?
I believe the 10 BTS order placing fee is shared with referral program.
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Offline merivercap

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #137 on: January 28, 2016, 11:56:07 pm »
1.  The referral program is one key to  success for Bitshares and Bitcash.  It's an extremely efficient way of allocating marketing resources.   If anyone thinks a product sells itself without any marketing that person doesn't understand business.  The technology is important, but any other system can emulate or even fork features so that makes marketing and distribution more critical.  Dropbox, Paypal, Square and many other companies have used referral systems extremely effectively.

2.  The referral program attracts and provides an incentive for a variety of businesses to use and build applications on Bitshares.  It provides some sustenance to these businesses.  Most other businesses that build on Bitcoin or other ecosysems are not sustainable.

3.  The price someone is willing to pay reflects the value something provides.  Bitshares has to be useful. Fees help us identify areas where we are solving the biggest problem.   We can solve a problem for merchants if we make it easy to use, charge lower processing fees, eliminate chargebacks, and bring in new potential customers.  We can solve problems for those that don't want to or can't use traditional banking systems.   Those users and merchants should be willing to pay fees.   Peer-to-peer payments are already free with Alipay, Wechat, Unionpay in China and it's free in the US with Paypal, Square, Facebook, Apple(soon) ..all these companies already have a huge network effect and billions to spend on marketing.  We can go after peer-to-peer payments later.  It's not wise to use resources to go against these giants directly.

4.  The fees are not the biggest issue, but in China I understand that overall prices are lower so regional pricing makes sense.

5.  The Bitshares system doesn't need to earn a profit in the beginning.  It just has to pay for marketing, witnesses, and software development.   All we have to do is set the bare minimum network fee for sustainability.  We can have a small budget for ongoing core development, but rely on FBA's for advanced features.   

6.  What if we:

a. Determine the lowest sustainable fee structure that will pay for witnesses and a reasonable amount of software development and maintenance in the long run.  This will be the network fee.  It can be in dollar/yuan terms. 

b.  Create a flexible fee structure so that certain Smartcoins (bitUSD,bitEUR), UIA's, Privatized bitAssets, FBA's can charge an additional fee to pay for marketing costs and utilize the existing referral program as is.  We can allow other Privatized bitAssets (TCNY) or Smartcoins (bitCNY) to charge no additional fee and find a way to market itself with no money and no referral program... or possibly find outside VC money for marketing somehow.

What do you guys think?
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Offline yvv

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #138 on: January 29, 2016, 12:41:34 am »

There is hundreds of hours of work there ! This work more the expenses didn't cost even 1 single bts to BitShares. Thanks to the referral program !

You byte 80% of fees from bitshares and claim that it does not cost it a single BTS? What a nonsense!

Offline Pheonike

Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #139 on: January 29, 2016, 12:50:24 am »

There is hundreds of hours of work there ! This work more the expenses didn't cost even 1 single bts to BitShares. Thanks to the referral program !

You byte 80% of fees from bitshares and claim that it does not cost it a single BTS? What a nonsense!

Anyone with LTM has prepaid for those transaction fees.  How many people do you think have recouped the cost of LTM in fees yet?? Very few if any, so the system has a surplus from LTM so far.

Offline clayop

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #140 on: January 29, 2016, 12:55:46 am »
Bitshares Korea - http://www.bitshares.kr
Vote for me and see Korean Bitshares community grows
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Offline EstefanTT

Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #141 on: January 29, 2016, 12:58:27 am »
Check the revenue of bitsharesfcx, the few accounts we have referred at the moment gave us a couple hundreds bts.
So, one year, 3 persons working on making BitShares accessible to any french speaker. All of that work for less than 200 bts ... 0.5$
You are right ! Shame on us !!! ;p

These ridiculous few bts we gain were not taking from BitShares, they came from the users. The very same users we place in the system.
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Offline yvv

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #142 on: January 29, 2016, 01:03:32 am »

There is hundreds of hours of work there ! This work more the expenses didn't cost even 1 single bts to BitShares. Thanks to the referral program !

You byte 80% of fees from bitshares and claim that it does not cost it a single BTS? What a nonsense!

Anyone with LTM has prepaid for those transaction fees.  How many people do you think have recouped the cost of LTM in fees yet?? Very few if any, so the system has a surplus from LTM so far.

You pay 80% of LTM fee to referrer, and only 20% to network.

Offline yvv

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #143 on: January 29, 2016, 01:07:50 am »
Check the revenue of bitsharesfcx, the few accounts we have referred at the moment gave us a couple hundreds bts.
So, one year, 3 persons working on making BitShares accessible to any french speaker. All of that work for less than 200 bts ... 0.5$
You are right ! Shame on us !!! ;p

These ridiculous few bts we gain were not taking from BitShares, they came from the users. The very same users we place in the system.

You just demonstrate here that referral system didn't work for you. You didn't bring active users into system, but you paid ridiculous LTM fee, 80% of which went to another referrer.


Offline EstefanTT

Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #144 on: January 29, 2016, 01:08:08 am »
This % can be lower by the community if some day it become too much but right now, it's one of best way we have to attract business on BitShares.
Why would you want to remove it ?
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Offline EstefanTT

Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #145 on: January 29, 2016, 01:15:33 am »
Check the revenue of bitsharesfcx, the few accounts we have referred at the moment gave us a couple hundreds bts.
So, one year, 3 persons working on making BitShares accessible to any french speaker. All of that work for less than 200 bts ... 0.5$
You are right ! Shame on us !!! ;p

These ridiculous few bts we gain were not taking from BitShares, they came from the users. The very same users we place in the system.

You just demonstrate here that referral system didn't work for you. You didn't bring active users into system, but you paid ridiculous LTM fee, 80% of which went to another referrer.
I'm not expecting to win money right now. I just wanted to help to spread information about BitShares with two friends.
When BM explain the RP in past june, it cheers up our little team and we push our project further because we saw that we could have fun with it but also maybe one day have some nice incomes from it.
So I would say, the RP works very well.
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jakub

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #146 on: January 29, 2016, 01:34:35 am »
You just demonstrate here that referral system didn't work for you. You didn't bring active users into system, but you paid ridiculous LTM fee, 80% of which went to another referrer.
No. It just demonstrates that without liquidity and efficient gateways BitShares is hard to sell to customers despite all the effort that EstefanTT has made.
And he admits he wouldn't have made this effort, if there was no referral system incentive.

If you are against the referral system, it's up to you, yvv, to demonstrate that BitShares would have had more users, if we didn't have the referral system and had very low transfer fees instead.
So far none of you has been able to produce any evidence for this.

You want to change something, then it's you who needs to demonstrate that the change has a valid reason and that BitShares would be better off after the change.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 01:41:55 am by jakub »

Offline Erlich Bachman

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #147 on: January 29, 2016, 01:41:20 am »
You pay 80% of LTM fee to referrer, and only 20% to network.

20% is not a bad reward for zero effort wouldn't you say?
You own the network, but who pays for development?

Offline yvv

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #148 on: January 29, 2016, 01:45:00 am »
You just demonstrate here that referral system didn't work for you. You didn't bring active users into system, but you paid ridiculous LTM fee, 80% of which went to another referrer.
No. It just demonstrates that without liquidity and efficient gateways BitShares is hard to sell to customers despite all the effort that EstefanTT has made.
And he admits he wouldn't have made this effort, if there was no referral system incentive.

If you are against the referral system, it's up to you, yvv, to demonstrate that BitShares would have had more users, if we hadn't had the referral system.
So far none of you has been able to produce any evidence for this.

I am not against the referral system. It is great to help a new user to set up account. I am against paying 80% of fees to referrer. Fees should go to network. I should not need to pay $100 to become a referrer. I don't need no reward for referring new users, but I need a refund for account creation fee which I will pay for them. The way referral system is set up now just does not work for me. Of course, others may have different opinion on this matter.

Offline yvv

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Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« Reply #149 on: January 29, 2016, 01:48:28 am »
You pay 80% of LTM fee to referrer, and only 20% to network.

20% is not a bad reward for zero effort wouldn't you say?

You mean 80% for zero effort? Hell yeah, it is not bad at all for referrers. But it is bad for network. Network needs to have all transaction fees. Referrers need to be refunded for their expenses only.