poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal

[Akado]

@bitcrab
Your idea is destructive.

This is what we know for sure that will happen if we go through with your concept:
- it will be the end of the referral program (including the concept of LTM) and all businesses that have based their business plans on this program will be screwed
- it will be the end of OpenLeger and its fiat gateway
- it will be the end of our percentage-based fee initiative
And once again BitShares will confirm its lack of respect for stable rules.

You offer no argument whatsoever why lowering the transfer fee to 1 BTS will help anything.
Your only argument is your belief. So you want to sacrifice all the above just because you believe it will help.

Your "reasoning" is based on this unproved hypothesis:
There are potential users who would like to transfer amounts above the equivalent of $5 but are not doing so because "the fees are too high".

I think this hypothesis of yours is worth exactly this: 1 BTS.

If referrers show us their great performance s for last four months, this debate will be resolved more easily.

4 months is not enough, people don't change exchanges that easily. They're creatures of habits. Is not easy to come and in 4 months replace major exchanges like that.
 
We've been though these pumps lately but BitShares volume seems to be growing. From the moment we're growing it's proven we're succeeding as we are atm. No need for change.

Plus people are still working and developing their own stuff. Give time for CCEDK's gateway directly into OpenLedger to develop and gain a bit of traction for example.


Like @jakub said, you're acting under nothing but an assumption with no concrete proof or data. You can't prove your point atm. Not to mention if we're growing which we might do if BTC pumps this summer due to halving, alts growing etc, we don't need to change anything. With these simplu pumps our volume spikes. Sure, it's still small but did you honestly expect it to be that much on a project so despised by anyone and that on top of competing with other coins (other peoples pov) is also competing with exchanges?  This simple pumps got us a $50k spike. imagine what happens if there's the huge btc pump during the halving and alts consequently grow too.

We need time, both to prove our or your point. We are developing. Volume reacted fine during this pumps which might be a signal we are slightly growing.

Don't fix what's not broken.

[clayop]

@bitcrab
Your idea is destructive.

This is what we know for sure that will happen if we go through with your concept:
- it will be the end of the referral program (including the concept of LTM) and all businesses that have based their business plans on this program will be screwed
- it will be the end of OpenLeger and its fiat gateway
- it will be the end of our percentage-based fee initiative
And once again BitShares will confirm its lack of respect for stable rules.

You offer no argument whatsoever why lowering the transfer fee to 1 BTS will help anything.
Your only argument is your belief. So you want to sacrifice all the above just because you believe it will help.

Your "reasoning" is based on this unproved hypothesis:
There are potential users who would like to transfer amounts above the equivalent of $5 but are not doing so because "the fees are too high".

I think this hypothesis of yours is worth exactly this: 1 BTS.

If referrers show us their great performance s for last four months, this debate will be resolved more easily.

[jakub]

@bitcrab
Your idea is destructive.

This is what we know for sure that will happen if we go through with your concept:
- it will be the end of the referral program (including the concept of LTM) and all businesses that have based their business plans on this program will be screwed
- it will be the end of OpenLeger and its fiat gateway
- it will be the end of our percentage-based fee initiative
And once again BitShares will confirm its lack of respect for stable rules.

You offer no argument whatsoever why lowering the transfer fee to 1 BTS will help anything.
Your only argument is your belief. So you want to sacrifice all the above just because you believe it will help.

Your "reasoning" is based on this unproved hypothesis:
There are potential users who would like to transfer amounts above the equivalent of $5 but are not doing so because "the fees are too high".

I think this hypothesis of yours is worth exactly this: 1 BTS.

[Akado]

I think we should just find another solution other than changing fees. Why not peg the fees to USD or CNY? What are people afraid of? That when BTS rises to a few cents that the fees will grow exponentially? They will be reduced accordingly.

The thing we need to consider here is if the cost of changing the fees to 1 BTS is worth jeopardizing other projects' business model. It's like asking do you prefer keeping OpenLedger or reduce fees in hopes of something to happen?

We don't have any solid, concrete proof that the benefits outweight the potential bad outcomes, hence it doesn't make sense to change that now.

We're not even sure if that will bring advantages. We are just taking a shoot in the dark in hopes a miracle will happen and suddenly BitShares will grow. That's not going to happen plus, at the same time we're throwing to waste everything that was built around this fee model (openledger and other potential businesses/partners that might already be building something).

It just isn't logical to throw away something we're building now just in hopes it will magically solve BitShares' problems. That's just gambling with this project's future and pissing on everyone's efforts so far.

Not to mention, even if it succeeds which it won't just because of that (unless you provide proof there are a lot of players willing to come in if that happens), BitShares will - once again - have its image damaged. People will only have the confirmation that BitShares is in a ever changing loop that doesn't let any businesses sink in because it constantly forces business models to change. What do you think other people will think of it? It will only tarnish BitShares' image once again and make it even look worse. Just when finally we're settling down, someone comes around and changes everything all again

Guess what, it's not in 3 or 4 months that a project will be successful or the #1. Give time to time.  Let things settle down and let's not be impatient. This will only confirm everyone's idea that BitShares acts in the following way: Let's try this solution. If in 1 month it doesn't work then let's come up with something random again in hopes of going to the top. Things dont work like that. We need a plan and to stick with it.

BitShares didn't even have time to settle. People are only knowing about OpenLedger now imo. They're only giving it a chance now. We need time. It's not because we didn't take over the world in 3 months that we're wrong or bad. Maybe we need more time for the world to prove ourselves to the world.

I would agree with you if no one was working and we had no solutions. But people are working and doing their own stuff so let them be. They didn't even come halfway with their projects and we already want to change things because they didn't succeed? We didn't even give them to chance to do it in the first place!

We want to make BitShares run when we're just learning how to crawl yet! Take it easy, give it time. It needs time. 3 months is nothing. Have you seen the list of exchanges here?
http://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/volume/24-hour/

We have $25k volume atm. That's just awesome and we're still at the beggining! Of course this is during these pumps but you know what? There are exchanges way older than us with way less volume! That already means we're succeeding better than others. We just need to continue! $25k should make us proud. Would never think we would reach that any time soon. We have more volume than C-CEX just now @ccedk   

If we take our time, do what we have to do and take advantage of the favourable conditions that seem to be forming (pumps, bull market, etc), we will be able to grow. Just be confident and work. These $25k might just disappear in the next hour but still, it's a lot for a new exchange like us! We should all be proud imo. That's an achievement.

[openledger]

and that is even the point here, there are many other business points, but to start suggesting to remove an opportunity for the ones who are in fact doing good to promote the whole platform is not the right approach

could you please share some more detailed data relevant to the referrer performance of openledger? such as how much revenues the referrals contribute, what I only know is that openledger referred 489 users up to now, however this number is not weird as openledger is at the key access point of Bitshares.

For what could you use this information right now. It is irrelevant as this referral system has only just started. It is as I said, when you have say 50k users, then you can start discussing the data and whether it is relevant or not. How can you base any poll on something as important as referral system where the residual income is only coming later, that' is the idea with this anyways. It's not to have money in your pocket same day you refer someone. Untill now we still dont have all the money generating businesses like bond market, prediction market etc, and as I said 5000 user is far too little to base any decision on whether the referral systems is good or not.

To turn it around, what bad does it do, apart from allowing all who pays the upgrade to have returned 80% of their expenses. Is that a bad thing?

You are asking as if this is something that is holding bts growth down!!! I guess you need to elaborate why you think this is holding bts down, and I dont you think you can really do this considering this platform only has been existing for a little more than 3 months and the referral system even less.

It is really strange to ask for this at this stage, and gives no sense whatsoever business wise.

And I added OpenLedger as a referral at the time I was sharing 50/50 with cryptonomex simply to see what outcome my marketing efforts did, and the proof you have in the amount of referrals (10% of the total is really not bad) and the total amount of users signed up via the faucet on OpenLedger. Just look at dac.play where no media attention has been made and look at Openledger where it i being mentioned all the time. That is all a part of what any LT member could get involved in and to start getting a piece of the action/income which is bound to come the moment the bigger money generators are added to platform.

Right now all marketeers adding referrers are building a foundation for the future, and if the idea is to have any money back big style right now, I guess they should consider some other of the business options on bts which sounds from other users is already here, although the referral system is meant to tie it all up together in the end, so stupid not to get the referrers as many as possible at this stage.

[bitcrab]

and that is even the point here, there are many other business points, but to start suggesting to remove an opportunity for the ones who are in fact doing good to promote the whole platform is not the right approach

could you please share some more detailed data relevant to the referrer performance of openledger? such as how much revenues the referrals contribute, what I only know is that openledger referred 489 users up to now, however this number is not weird as openledger is at the key access point of Bitshares.

[openledger]

There are some good referral program design in Internet times, one example is DIDI(a Uber-like company in China), when one user finish one order, he/she share his inviting code to his friends and get some cashback(have been 5-10CNY), and the friend can also save about 5-10 CNY while using DIDI next time with the code. everyone is happy and the marketing is succesful, surely DIDI will pay for this, but it worth to pay.

Comparing to this, the Bitshares referral program is of bad design. in essence it just let the referral pay to the referrer. I don't think there's referral be happy when he/she understand this clearly. and the observed facts showed this referral program does not work.

There are some good referral program design in Internet times, one example is DIDI(a Uber-like company in China), when one user finish one order, he/she share his inviting code to his friends and get some cashback(have been 5-10CNY), and the friend can also save about 5-10 CNY while using DIDI next time with the code. everyone is happy and the marketing is succesful, surely DIDI will pay for this, but it worth to pay.

Why not introduce this on dac.play first, then we see if it works?

Comparing to this, the Bitshares referral program is of bad design. in essence it just let the referral pay to the referrer. I don't think there's referral be happy when he/she understand this clearly. and the observed facts showed this referral program does not work.

Not true, this is not a pyramid scheme, where you are constantly paying to the referrer, unlike these ponzi schemes you are here able to to achieve a 60% of all the fees from future referred users, an it is obviously only if you do something about it.

The referral will only benefit the ones who market the platform, its as simple as that, and will not really do anything  for future resisual income if you decide to lean back and let everyone else do the hard work.

Its time for some action and less time for these constant votes for something very little to base  your vote on in any case.

Lets consider this after some unique users ahve signed up on Openledger bts platform this year, then you have a user base worth making a poll on.

I think there are many other business on bts system beside referral program system

and that is even the point here, there are many other business points, but to start suggesting to remove an opportunity for the ones who are in fact doing good to promote the whole platform is not the right approach

[BTSdac]

There are some good referral program design in Internet times, one example is DIDI(a Uber-like company in China), when one user finish one order, he/she share his inviting code to his friends and get some cashback(have been 5-10CNY), and the friend can also save about 5-10 CNY while using DIDI next time with the code. everyone is happy and the marketing is succesful, surely DIDI will pay for this, but it worth to pay.

Comparing to this, the Bitshares referral program is of bad design. in essence it just let the referral pay to the referrer. I don't think there's referral be happy when he/she understand this clearly. and the observed facts showed this referral program does not work.

There are some good referral program design in Internet times, one example is DIDI(a Uber-like company in China), when one user finish one order, he/she share his inviting code to his friends and get some cashback(have been 5-10CNY), and the friend can also save about 5-10 CNY while using DIDI next time with the code. everyone is happy and the marketing is succesful, surely DIDI will pay for this, but it worth to pay.

Why not introduce this on dac.play first, then we see if it works?

Comparing to this, the Bitshares referral program is of bad design. in essence it just let the referral pay to the referrer. I don't think there's referral be happy when he/she understand this clearly. and the observed facts showed this referral program does not work.

Not true, this is not a pyramid scheme, where you are constantly paying to the referrer, unlike these ponzi schemes you are here able to to achieve a 60% of all the fees from future referred users, an it is obviously only if you do something about it.

The referral will only benefit the ones who market the platform, its as simple as that, and will not really do anything  for future resisual income if you decide to lean back and let everyone else do the hard work.

Its time for some action and less time for these constant votes for something very little to base  your vote on in any case.

Lets consider this after some unique users ahve signed up on Openledger bts platform this year, then you have a user base worth making a poll on.

I think there are many other business on bts system beside referral program system

[clayop]

The referral should base on mature application、user numbers、outside funding
We got none of this now，

what do you base your opinion on? do you even know how many users register through the referral program (hint: A LOT)

But I found many of them rarely use BTS system. We need more detailed data.

[openledger]

There are some good referral program design in Internet times, one example is DIDI(a Uber-like company in China), when one user finish one order, he/she share his inviting code to his friends and get some cashback(have been 5-10CNY), and the friend can also save about 5-10 CNY while using DIDI next time with the code. everyone is happy and the marketing is succesful, surely DIDI will pay for this, but it worth to pay.

Comparing to this, the Bitshares referral program is of bad design. in essence it just let the referral pay to the referrer. I don't think there's referral be happy when he/she understand this clearly. and the observed facts showed this referral program does not work.

There are some good referral program design in Internet times, one example is DIDI(a Uber-like company in China), when one user finish one order, he/she share his inviting code to his friends and get some cashback(have been 5-10CNY), and the friend can also save about 5-10 CNY while using DIDI next time with the code. everyone is happy and the marketing is succesful, surely DIDI will pay for this, but it worth to pay.

Why not introduce this on dac.play first, then we see if it works?

Comparing to this, the Bitshares referral program is of bad design. in essence it just let the referral pay to the referrer. I don't think there's referral be happy when he/she understand this clearly. and the observed facts showed this referral program does not work.

Not true, this is not a pyramid scheme, where you are constantly paying to the referrer, unlike these ponzi schemes you are here able to to achieve a 60% of all the fees from future referred users, an it is obviously only if you do something about it.

The referral will only benefit the ones who market the platform, its as simple as that, and will not really do anything  for future resisual income if you decide to lean back and let everyone else do the hard work.

Its time for some action and less time for these constant votes for something very little to base  your vote on in any case.

Lets consider this after some unique users ahve signed up on Openledger bts platform this year, then you have a user base worth making a poll on.

[openledger]

It is my firm belief that the referral system is one of the best incentives for future growth on BitShares platform.

It has not worked on dac.play so I guess the asumption is then that it will not work on OpenLedger and similar as well, but that is a completely wrong attitude, and I will personally pull out of anything related with BitShares if this is voted out, as I will have no belief or incentive in the continous pull for getting BTS and OpenLedger known worldwide.

Now I said it, and I will not repeat it, but the whole business is built around inviting marketeers to get involved and taking away an incentive essentially of great importance for marketeers to want to get involved in this project will kill the reasons for any future growth.

[Moon]

全球最保值虚拟货币BTS低调来袭！这里你买不到吃亏买不到上当！全年均价0.02分，上浮利率远远赶超央妈利率！是你投资理财佳品！气死你我们更专业！气死你我们更用心！

[sudo]

The referral should base on mature application、user numbers、outside funding
We got none of this now，

what do you base your opinion on? do you even know how many users register through the referral program (hint: A LOT)

“A lot”user means 300 transer volumn per day as a global transer system？and most of them are just sending to polonex and btc38？ Please don't  make me laugh.

 

[Moon]

The referral should base on mature application、user numbers、outside funding
We got none of this now，

what do you base your opinion on? do you even know how many users register through the referral program (hint: A LOT)

“A lot”user means 300 transer volumn per day as a global transer system？and most of them are just sending to polonex and btc38？ Please don't  make me laugh.

Who wants to reduce fees? user

[deer]

The referral should base on mature application、user numbers、outside funding
We got none of this now，

what do you base your opinion on? do you even know how many users register through the referral program (hint: A LOT)

“A lot”user means 300 transer volumn per day as a global transer system？and most of them are just sending to polonex and btc38？ Please don't  make me laugh.