Author Topic: Pre-Mine concerns  (Read 29051 times)

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Offline seraphim

Yes, please back up your accusation with some facts.
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Offline seraphim

I am a bit late to the whole premine controversy but can someone just sum it up for me. Did freetrade only get 160 000 MMC and thats causing all this fuss ?

Look at the shit thats called Ripple with a few billion effective premine and central authority and backed by google, it is doing reasonably well and everyone is losing their fucking toys over 160 000 / $32000 worth of premine coins ?

If all this chaos is only because of voting power I guess there is some reason for it but still overcoming the 160k vote is fairly easy combining just a few big miners coin votes.

Please correct me if I am wrong or inform me of the actual total premine in case it is much higher than that.

No, you're not wrong.

It started with a campaign which stated that the cXo get paid too many coins (the campaign wanted to distribute those coins between the people voting for it). When they realized they don't get enough support they started whining about FreeTrade having too many coins and that they can't win because of that.

The whole premine has been transparent from the start, just not the amount FreeTrade got. He regarded this as a private issue. And while most of the active members of the community agreed with him on that, some others didn't. Finally he posted the "interview" https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.0 to stop the fuss.

In the end it's not really been a scandal in my opinion, but just a few greedy jealous people making lots of noise.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 04:58:16 pm by seraphim »
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Offline bppsp1

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I am a bit late to the whole premine controversy but can someone just sum it up for me. Did freetrade only get 160 000 MMC and thats causing all this fuss ?

Look at the shit thats called Ripple with a few billion effective premine and central authority and backed by google, it is doing reasonably well and everyone is losing their fucking toys over 160 000 / $32000 worth of premine coins ?

If all this chaos is only because of voting power I guess there is some reason for it but still overcoming the 160k vote is fairly easy combining just a few big miners coin votes.

Please correct me if I am wrong or inform me of the actual total premine in case it is much higher than that.

Offline FreeTrade

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I guess you're talking about the interview -

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2288.msg27422#msg27422

I think good luck with a coin that doesn't hold any elections for six months. They'll call you worse names even than they called me.

Truth is, it's difficult to get a coin like this bootstrapped . . . it might be a bit easier now that everyone understands a little better how a coin like this is supposed to work, but I'd guess not much. MemoryCoin doesn't have shaky foundations at all - we're laying down a very positive culture for growth here.
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Offline Empirical1

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Just wanted to give you guys the point of view of a potential investor...

On the positive side, MMC2 has the attributes of what I think the Bitcoin Beating coin will have.

1. They need central bank proof mining. (They may already control Bitcoin network.)
2. Central Bank proof developers. (Most core devs are already compromised.)

Your coin addresses this. It has a commitment to keeping mining distributed and you have a voting system that allows suspected compromised individuals to be voted out.

I was really excited, it's exactly what the successor of Bitcoin needs, but of course then we get to the pre-mine scandal.

The fact that you gave yourself 160k coins is not a big deal, the fact that this lets you influence the voting in the beginning is actually a good thing. (Personally I would have had the voting system only kick in after 6 months so it gives the founding team the ability & incentive to develop the coin and prove themselves, and only if we feel they're compromised, eg. by joining circle, or they are not up to task then they would be voted off.)

Unfortunately what is a big deal is that you thought you were entitled to some priivacy regarding the pre-mine!? Pre-mining etc. is very controversial anyway and if it is done it needs to be as clear and transparent as possible. The way you avoided, deflected and justified not answering the questions is SO disappointing. Even the tongue in cheek/humorous way you finally addressed it was wrong and paragraphs like this are still very dubious...

Quote
fork all the balances from the old coin, but dilute anyone who wasn't voting, or just voting to share the grants out amongst the winning voters. So the fork rewarded people who were really engaged and trying to make the project work, but still kept balances for everyone.

People in crypto are literally waiting for a coin that has the ability to stay true to the vision Satoshi created, I believe that coin will look a lot like MemoryCoin, but I can't see anything of substance being built on such a shaky foundation.

At the moment my conclusion is that MemoryCoin has managed to snatch defeat from the Jaws of victory.

It's a pity because if it wasn't for this I would have bought a boat-load. 

But good luck, you never know. If you can re-lay the foundation you might still be able to build something, but I doubt it.

Offline isaacgoldbourne

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Offline isaacgoldbourne

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There's seems to be a really bad vibe with MemoryCoin2.

Any interesting features are overshadowed by rumors of corruption. And the air isn't cleared.

Bad community = no interest for me.  I can go back to XPM or PTS.

Best luck!
XPM and ProtoShares are very good, innovative currencies, but neither of them went smoothly initially.

We are working on it, we have a few people who post a lot of negative things but largely the community here is outstanding. In just a few short weeks we have more tools available than even litecoin, it is rather unfair for you to say the community "has a bad vibe". I would say we are actually incredibly productive
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Offline btc2084

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There's seems to be a really bad vibe with MemoryCoin2.

Any interesting features are overshadowed by rumors of corruption. And the air isn't cleared.

Bad community = no interest for me.  I can go back to XPM or PTS.

Best luck!

Offline isaacgoldbourne

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A lot of fud is spread at the moment, but I'm optimistic that the facts speak for themselves and the haters will give up soon.

The market was crashed by someone selling about 25k coins at once a few days ago. Plus, regarding profitability we're still ahead of scrypt coins for GPU miners, and they tend to sell fast. Price will recover soon, and with the fast decline of the block reward we can expect a bright future  :)
I hadn't taken miners into account, but looking at market volume vs coins mined per day they are fairly similar
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Offline seraphim

A lot of fud is spread at the moment, but I'm optimistic that the facts speak for themselves and the haters will give up soon.

The market was crashed by someone selling about 25k coins at once a few days ago. Plus, regarding profitability we're still ahead of scrypt coins for GPU miners, and they tend to sell fast. Price will recover soon, and with the fast decline of the block reward we can expect a bright future  :)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 08:02:40 pm by seraphim »
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Offline Giga

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There seems to be alot of allegations and attacks agains memorycoin and freetrade going on in bitcointalk, especially regarding a massive pre-mine freetrade owns. I hope these allegations can be refuted.

Offline jae208

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It's unfortunate FreeTrade would rather let this unknown pre-mine hang over the head of his currency than demonstrate a little transparency.

You should write an article or do a podcast on this. Indeed it is very unfortunate. This is a ponzi scheme. Freetrade will most likely dump his coins once there is a price increase.
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Offline SlyWax

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The idea behind the coin is fantastic, really! But look at it like this... you life in a country where some dictator says; we have a democracy and people are free to vote!! But behind the scenes there is one absolute power that overrules all votes and only organizes elections to give a fake feeling to the people that they actually have a choice... There are still many countries in the world where this happens
you mean like in the USA ?
Where the money pay for add on TV and only rich people get elected !

and if i get it right this is the opposite of why crypto's are invented. Makes sense right?

In the first place it was a big mistake to gave the votes power by how many coins they are backed. I think this was perfectly thought of before it was implemented.... How can you create a fair democratic coin if only the rich have power?
You misunderstand the technical reality/difficulty here.
There is no way to enforce 1 man 1 vote on cryptocurrency, unless you use a central certifying authority.
Other ways are to be found yet. (Web of trust is a possibility but could be cheated)

So the only way right now is one coin one vote. And it's like any other shareholder voting in regular corporation (one stock one vote).

Offline stickhead

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Jeeez what a soap story this coin... It's a shame this happens on the bitsharestalk board and it only hurts the good reputation of Invictus. If this coin was honest all this drama never happened!!

Sorry to say but this coin is doomed and can never be used for a honest voting system after all what happened... What goes around comes around!? Maybe launch GreedCoin where MMC2 will be included in the genesis block... I think this name fits a whole bunch off people involved with MMC
I had nothing to do with 1.0, protoshares and was not included in the genesis block either?

I think it has potential, I believe freetrade will disperse the coins he gave himself to those who create things for the coin.

For example he gave 5000 coins to the people who created the optimized miner

The idea behind the coin is fantastic, really! But look at it like this... you life in a country where some dictator says; we have a democracy and people are free to vote!! But behind the scenes there is one absolute power that overrules all votes and only organizes elections to give a fake feeling to the people that they actually have a choice... There are still many countries in the world where this happens and if i get it right this is the opposite of why crypto's are invented. Makes sense right?

In the first place it was a big mistake to gave the votes power by how many coins they are backed. I think this was perfectly thought of before it was implemented.... How can you create a fair democratic coin if only the rich have power?
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Offline isaacgoldbourne

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Jeeez what a soap story this coin... It's a shame this happens on the bitsharestalk board and it only hurts the good reputation of Invictus. If this coin was honest all this drama never happened!!

Sorry to say but this coin is doomed and can never be used for a honest voting system after all what happened... What goes around comes around!? Maybe launch GreedCoin where MMC2 will be included in the genesis block... I think this name fits a whole bunch off people involved with MMC
I had nothing to do with 1.0, protoshares and was not included in the genesis block either?

I think it has potential, I believe freetrade will disperse the coins he gave himself to those who create things for the coin.

For example he gave 5000 coins to the people who created the optimized miner
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