Author Topic: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution  (Read 4194 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2016, 12:56:39 am »
I think that changing our reported supply would lead to a drop in bts price of at least 200 sats.  If we are going to do this then I would sell the majority of my bts first so I could buy more back later.

Don't know what the specific price fall would be but yes I'm fairly certain the price would fall >25%.

Adding the reserve pool to the total would be similar to what XRP did but I think it would have a negative price effect.

We survived that just a couple weeks ago. Imagine going through that again and then never hearing the words Dilution and Bitshares in the same sentence ever again...

However I don't think the price would change much. Typically with something like this it changes because the market is flooded with huge sell pressure. In this case the order books haven't moved at all because the supply on the open market hasn't actually changed. We'd just be reporting how many BTS actually exist.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 12:59:10 am by Riverhead »

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2016, 01:34:08 am »
In practical terms how would we go through a process like this?
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | Decentralized Gaming Built with Graphene - Now with BookiePro!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2016, 01:41:32 am »
I think that changing our reported supply would lead to a drop in bts price of at least 200 sats.  If we are going to do this then I would sell the majority of my bts first so I could buy more back later.

Don't know what the specific price fall would be but yes I'm fairly certain the price would fall >25%.

Adding the reserve pool to the total would be similar to what XRP did but I think it would have a negative price effect.

We survived that just a couple weeks ago. Imagine going through that again and then never hearing the words Dilution and Bitshares in the same sentence ever again...

However I don't think the price would change much. Typically with something like this it changes because the market is flooded with huge sell pressure. In this case the order books haven't moved at all because the supply on the open market hasn't actually changed. We'd just be reporting how many BTS actually exist.

The market has kind of priced in the reserve fund already but when you actually change the stated supply to reflect that large amount the market will price it in fully.

BitShares is actually getting to a very good place in terms of dilution, in that it's only 9 months away from paying off the merger and it's also been very conservative/circumspect with additional dilution above the 2.5 billion mark.

Adjusting the supply to 3.7 billion could be viewed as the next big negative dilutionary event, shareholders will also be concerned that we'll see more wasteful dilution when it's 'hidden' within the new total as opposed to being held more accountable with current approach.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 01:43:53 am by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline Riverhead

Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2016, 01:48:30 am »
In practical terms how would we go through a process like this?
There isn't really a process. Most people here know there are 3.7BB BTS. We just typically subtract the reserve fund when communicating supply.

Offline mint chocolate chip

Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2016, 05:13:54 am »
In practical terms how would we go through a process like this?
There isn't really a process. Most people here know there are 3.7BB BTS. We just typically subtract the reserve fund when communicating supply.

I like the idea myself, mainly because when a BTS is actually burned, it would reflect a reduce in supply that would be noticeable. As of now, burned shares would sort of get lost in the daily supply changes. Remember how great this thread sounded... https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19014.0/all.html

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12896
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2016, 09:42:04 am »
In practical terms how would we go through a process like this?
There isn't really a process. Most people here know there are 3.7BB BTS. We just typically subtract the reserve fund when communicating supply.
Essentially, we just need to convince Gliss from CMC to change the supply in his database ..
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3891
    • View Profile
    • Steemit Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2016, 10:14:53 am »
Can you guys organize a professional PR team and marketing team, and make a plan, and execute according to the plan? Everyday some ideas show up and get buried after some days. Actions?
BTS account: abit
BTS committee member: abit
BTS witness: in.abit

Offline Shentist

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
    • View Profile
    • metaexchange
  • BitShares: shentist
Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2016, 10:20:58 am »
i am not sure if we want to do this, but i also don't like the discussions and threads about dilution.

but i think it would be wrong to add it on coinmarketcap. with the same agrument bitcoin could say we have to change the numbers also.

makes no sense to report the shares als "availabel" if you can not sell them. the same problem exists with the vesting shares.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2016, 10:37:57 am »
i am not sure if we want to do this, but i also don't like the discussions and threads about dilution.

but i think it would be wrong to add it on coinmarketcap. with the same agrument bitcoin could say we have to change the numbers also.

makes no sense to report the shares als "availabel" if you can not sell them. the same problem exists with the vesting shares.

The difference between Bitshares and Bitcoin here is that their supply is locked up with POW. They are unlocking them literally as fast as humanly possible. Our supply could be released tomorrow with enough votes.

Offline Shentist

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
    • View Profile
    • metaexchange
  • BitShares: shentist
Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2016, 10:42:53 am »
i am not sure if we want to do this, but i also don't like the discussions and threads about dilution.

but i think it would be wrong to add it on coinmarketcap. with the same agrument bitcoin could say we have to change the numbers also.

makes no sense to report the shares als "availabel" if you can not sell them. the same problem exists with the vesting shares.

The difference between Bitshares and Bitcoin here is that their supply is locked up with POW. They are unlocking them literally as fast as humanly possible. Our supply could be released tomorrow with enough votes.

i thought we have a limit of 400.000 BTS? or can this also be changed? if this is, i didnt have the right information and the available shares should be adjusted on CMC.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2016, 10:50:34 am »
Can you guys organize a professional PR team and marketing team, and make a plan, and execute according to the plan? Everyday some ideas show up and get buried after some days. Actions?

I understand your frustration at the ad hoc nature of these discussions and the seemingly arbitrary implementation or discarding of ideas. The problem is that there isn't a "you guys". Unless you mean the committee? Right now it's just a brainstorming thread IMHO.

Perhaps the proposal put forth for a vote can include a budget for a PR and Marketing team and the making of a plan. Since this is more of a semantic change anyway marketing is basically all this would be.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12896
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2016, 11:42:43 am »
Can you guys organize a professional PR team and marketing team, and make a plan, and execute according to the plan? Everyday some ideas show up and get buried after some days. Actions?

I understand your frustration at the ad hoc nature of these discussions and the seemingly arbitrary implementation or discarding of ideas. The problem is that there isn't a "you guys". Unless you mean the committee? Right now it's just a brainstorming thread IMHO.

Perhaps the proposal put forth for a vote can include a budget for a PR and Marketing team and the making of a plan. Since this is more of a semantic change anyway marketing is basically all this would be.
@abit IIRC @bunketchain-labs has had an idea for a PR worker ..
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3891
    • View Profile
    • Steemit Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2016, 12:15:15 pm »
i am not sure if we want to do this, but i also don't like the discussions and threads about dilution.

but i think it would be wrong to add it on coinmarketcap. with the same agrument bitcoin could say we have to change the numbers also.

makes no sense to report the shares als "availabel" if you can not sell them. the same problem exists with the vesting shares.

The difference between Bitshares and Bitcoin here is that their supply is locked up with POW. They are unlocking them literally as fast as humanly possible. Our supply could be released tomorrow with enough votes.

i thought we have a limit of 400.000 BTS? or can this also be changed? if this is, i didnt have the right information and the available shares should be adjusted on CMC.
If enough share holders agree, we can easily change that 400K BTS per day limitation. Even possible a hard fork to change the 3.7BB limitation. IMO it's no need to discuss right now at all.
BTS account: abit
BTS committee member: abit
BTS witness: in.abit

Offline abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3891
    • View Profile
    • Steemit Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2016, 12:17:18 pm »
Can you guys organize a professional PR team and marketing team, and make a plan, and execute according to the plan? Everyday some ideas show up and get buried after some days. Actions?

I understand your frustration at the ad hoc nature of these discussions and the seemingly arbitrary implementation or discarding of ideas. The problem is that there isn't a "you guys". Unless you mean the committee? Right now it's just a brainstorming thread IMHO.

Perhaps the proposal put forth for a vote can include a budget for a PR and Marketing team and the making of a plan. Since this is more of a semantic change anyway marketing is basically all this would be.
[member=18687]abit[/member] IIRC @bunketchain-labs has had an idea for a PR worker ..
My opinion is always making actions first, if it's a right way, then consider worker or fund raise or something else. Just like what you did with you worker.
BTS account: abit
BTS committee member: abit
BTS witness: in.abit

Offline lil_jay890

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
    • View Profile
Re: Appearance of Deflation vs No Dilution
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2016, 12:42:04 pm »
You will kill bts if you adjust the supply to 3.7 billion.  That number is only true if it is used up in worker proposals or witness pay.  The price is bts will be cut by a 3rd and traders are going to get margin called and stopped out. Think of what happened to the swiss Frank after they said they were abandoning the euro peg. The frank rose 20% causing exchanges to blow up while many traders were carried out in body bags.

This would be the most detrimental thing ever to happen to bitshares... It will be much worse than the merger.