voting of refund400k from 50M to 1.48M, so I delete my old post

[Empirical1.2]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

Daniel pushed hard for bringing privacy to the front of the development que, he believes it will attract a lot of users and hopefully pull BTS ahead of DASH. Obviously Stealth was privately funded, but it gets released soon, so lets see if he's right this time...

My "gut" tells me that crypto-diehards are looking for an easy to use ANONYMOUS currency and those of us that are freedom loving actually want and need this.  Our current lack of privacy is a turnoff to many in the crypto and banking world.

If we have the best of breed privacy then it will put us well ahead of the competition.  Hopefully helping pull us up to Dash.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

thank you for playing so many words to explain

read this page replies, I most want to say is: please do not use China, the United States, Europe to divide our community, and should be the point of view A, B, C. We came here not because of the geographical location, but for some ideals and goals.

  do it!!!

[Musewhale]

I have been wondering, why the AGS funds so soon  dry up, that's a big sum of money. I thought he would be able to support three or four years.

I'd say you haven't paid much attention to the volitile price of Bitcoins then. When the price was high, sure looked like funding was secured for at least a couple of years. After the bottom fellv out of the market it was an entirely different story. That's what happened. I'm definitely NOT saying money was spent furgally, there were plenty of bad decisions and expenditures IMO.

Why all the complaining right now at this point? Look at all the innovative ideas coming forth, look at our rising marketcap. I think you really need to think about the reason for any dilution and not just dogmatic economic theory. Also consider that BM & the dev staff of BitShares 1.0 could have walked away or popped up under a new name to run "another" scam pump & dump, but instead they regrouped, found another plan of attack and the means to put food on the table while developing graphine, which was rolled out with FAR less problems than 1.0 was.

I'm not excusing the blunders and mistakes, but I also am not going to give up right when I start to see the fruits of all the labor start to pay off. You have efforts like:

1) BitShares mobil wallet and OpenPOS that kencode and chris4210 are doing
2) Stealth GUI additions and FBA about to be released
3) Abit's rate limiting enhancements to implement FREE transactions
4) Numerous GUI improvements nearly every single week
5) Xeroc's docs - growing day by day

It's taken quite awhile, but I'm finally beginning to see some real community enthusiasm. Why you bring up this old issue and threaten to stop all this momentum and progress, just as we begin to see marketcap impact? It makes little sense.

If you 're so certain the small amount of dilution we're currently spending to get all this accomplished will be worse than taking the hard-line, absolute zero dilution position, then show us your data that makes your case. Stop claiming you know it will hurt our rep AND marketcap despite the evidence to the contrary that others can dilute FAR more and grow. Show us the numbers that prove your point and we will listen.

thank you for playing so many words to explain

read this page replies, I most want to say is: please do not use China, the United States, Europe to divide our community, and should be the point of view A, B, C. We came here not because of the geographical location, but for some ideals and goals.

[Thom]

I have been wondering, why the AGS funds so soon  dry up, that's a big sum of money. I thought he would be able to support three or four years.

I'd say you haven't paid much attention to the volitile price of Bitcoins then. When the price was high, sure looked like funding was secured for at least a couple of years. After the bottom fellv out of the market it was an entirely different story. That's what happened. I'm definitely NOT saying money was spent furgally, there were plenty of bad decisions and expenditures IMO.

Why all the complaining right now at this point? Look at all the innovative ideas coming forth, look at our rising marketcap. I think you really need to think about the reason for any dilution and not just dogmatic economic theory. Also consider that BM & the dev staff of BitShares 1.0 could have walked away or popped up under a new name to run "another" scam pump & dump, but instead they regrouped, found another plan of attack and the means to put food on the table while developing graphine, which was rolled out with FAR less problems than 1.0 was.

I'm not excusing the blunders and mistakes, but I also am not going to give up right when I start to see the fruits of all the labor start to pay off. You have efforts like:

1) BitShares mobil wallet and OpenPOS that kencode and chris4210 are doing
2) Stealth GUI additions and FBA about to be released
3) Abit's rate limiting enhancements to implement FREE transactions
4) Numerous GUI improvements nearly every single week
5) Xeroc's docs - growing day by day

It's taken quite awhile, but I'm finally beginning to see some real community enthusiasm. Why you bring up this old issue and threaten to stop all this momentum and progress, just as we begin to see marketcap impact? It makes little sense.

If you 're so certain the small amount of dilution we're currently spending to get all this accomplished will be worse than taking the hard-line, absolute zero dilution position, then show us your data that makes your case. Stop claiming you know it will hurt our rep AND marketcap despite the evidence to the contrary that others can dilute FAR more and grow. Show us the numbers that prove your point and we will listen.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

I think this depends on the point of view. The ones who say "Dilution" try thinking about this. Bitcoin, Ethereum and every single coin has it at the moment. Some in form of PoW. You only need to see this as PoW, because if you think about it, it is. Instead of the work being done is mining blocks, the work is development and improvement of our own blockchain with people who can actually code.

Bitcoin, PoW, dilution via miners.
BitShares, in a sense, PoW too because dilution is done via worker proposals, real work improving the blockchain for the better.

So instead of having random people mining, you have coders with skills to improve the blockchain. Imo it's much more fair because you have actual job and improvement done, plus everyone can vote if they want it or not.

If you look at it that way, our model is better assuming it can maintain the same level of security. It's just a matter of perception. The problem here is knowing when and if worker proposals and the job done to improve the blockchain is worth the "dilution" it caused.

Well stated comparison there Akedo.. 

[Akado]

I think this depends on the point of view. The ones who say "Dilution" try thinking about this. Bitcoin, Ethereum and every single coin has it at the moment. Some in form of PoW. You only need to see this as PoW, because if you think about it, it is. Instead of the work being done is mining blocks, the work is development and improvement of our own blockchain with people who can actually code.

Bitcoin, PoW, dilution via miners.
BitShares, in a sense, PoW too because dilution is done via worker proposals, real work improving the blockchain for the better.

So instead of having random people mining, you have coders with skills to improve the blockchain. Imo it's much more fair because you have actual job and improvement done, plus everyone can vote if they want it or not.

If you look at it that way, our model is better assuming it can maintain the same level of security. It's just a matter of perception. The problem here is knowing when and if worker proposals and the job done to improve the blockchain is worth the "dilution" it caused.

[CryptoPrometheus]

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Nothing to add...
Thanks for the reminder, will give it a try ..

@cass,

Your work is extremely valuable to BitShares, and many people know this.

Right now, it is very difficult to convince more people to care enough to vote. This has nothing to do with you, and it does not take away from the fact that BitShares would be much worse off if you were not here.

If I had my way, I would vote for you (and many other people) to get 3x as much BTS for your efforts. Unfortunately, we have a situation where different cultures have different ideas about when and how people should be paid for their work. If we are lucky, these differences will make BitShares stronger in the end, even though they tend to create friction in the short term.

P.S. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about how the world should work, but with BitShares some people's opinions are weighted more heavily than others. This is the most fair system that has ever been created, IMO.

All people are Not equal. Sure, perhaps all people should have equal opportunities, etc, but each person has to earn their place at the table based on the actions they take. In this case, I am referring to the BTS that they have chosen to buy, sell, or hold.

If some people choose to vote based on long term strategies, that is their own decision to make. Likewise, some some might choose to vote with short term gains in mind. Most people (including myself) will never have the full picture about what the best strategies would, should, or could be. So all we can hope for is that people keep caring enough to speak their opinion.

The VERY WORST thing that could ever happen to BitShares, IMO, is that people stop caring enough to vote. Even if everybody is pissed off at each other all the time, as long as the robust discussions continue then we are moving in the right direction!

[abit]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Where are the Chinese developers?  What makes it ok to constantly scream that people are not doing something for you free, but then do little development from what I have heard? 

US job market is going great right now, real developers are rare. There are tons of shitty developers who decided to get into it because it pays well.  The type of developer needed for blockchain type work is one of these "rare" developers.  They would have to be screwed up socially in a very very strange way, have a criminal records, or unwilling to relocate etc to not be able to get a job. You are so clueless to think guys who can fix BItShares couldn't find a good job.  You are on a different planet.

If you are going to insult someone, insult Dan Larimer who made all the decisions unilaterally but with input.  I don't know why you think developers owe you more. It makes more sense for them to get a job, then wait and invest their money in BTS or not.

If someone was to "take accountability" and only be paid if the marketcap doubled, how do they know what thousands of quasi-irrational people are going to do ? It would be foolish to take such a deal without asking to be paid far FAAARRRR above market rates when the market cap doubles. No one would like that either.

I am not commenting on the past, but startups can blow through cash like crazy.  That is not going on currently.  If you want to win, you need to advance. Not sit around fingers cross hoping and praying for some magic to occur.

I'd like to see more Chinese developers too.

Maybe there are just clearing the playing field to introduce their own Chinese developers?

Lot easier to do that when everyone else has given up.

No need to cross fingers or hope and pray when you know how the 'magic' trick works right?

I certainly hope that is not the case here, and that this is just a matter of a huge amount of misrepresented propaganda making it's way through eastern channels.

It's said that ETH attracted a lot of developers and capitals, but BitShares drove away a lot.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Where are the Chinese developers?  What makes it ok to constantly scream that people are not doing something for you free, but then do little development from what I have heard? 

US job market is going great right now, real developers are rare. There are tons of shitty developers who decided to get into it because it pays well.  The type of developer needed for blockchain type work is one of these "rare" developers.  They would have to be screwed up socially in a very very strange way, have a criminal records, or unwilling to relocate etc to not be able to get a job. You are so clueless to think guys who can fix BItShares couldn't find a good job.  You are on a different planet.

If you are going to insult someone, insult Dan Larimer who made all the decisions unilaterally but with input.  I don't know why you think developers owe you more. It makes more sense for them to get a job, then wait and invest their money in BTS or not.

If someone was to "take accountability" and only be paid if the marketcap doubled, how do they know what thousands of quasi-irrational people are going to do ? It would be foolish to take such a deal without asking to be paid far FAAARRRR above market rates when the market cap doubles. No one would like that either.

I am not commenting on the past, but startups can blow through cash like crazy.  That is not going on currently.  If you want to win, you need to advance. Not sit around fingers cross hoping and praying for some magic to occur.

I'd like to see more Chinese developers too.

Maybe there are just clearing the playing field to introduce their own Chinese developers?

Lot easier to do that when everyone else has given up.

No need to cross fingers or hope and pray when you know how the 'magic' trick works right?

I certainly hope that is not the case here, and that this is just a matter of a huge amount of misrepresented propaganda making it's way through eastern channels.

[bytemaster]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Look at it another way, you want the programmer to only get paid *if* the blockchain is a success, but success is not something the programmer can control.  A programmer can only control whether or not their CODE works and is delivered on time.

Would you take a job where you only get paid if your co-workers do their job?

[gamey]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Where are the Chinese developers?  What makes it ok to constantly scream that people are not doing something for you free, but then do little development from what I have heard? 

US job market is going great right now, real developers are rare. There are tons of shitty developers who decided to get into it because it pays well.  The type of developer needed for blockchain type work is one of these "rare" developers.  They would have to be screwed up socially in a very very strange way, have a criminal records, or unwilling to relocate etc to not be able to get a job. You are so clueless to think guys who can fix BItShares couldn't find a good job.  You are on a different planet.

If you are going to insult someone, insult Dan Larimer who made all the decisions unilaterally but with input.  I don't know why you think developers owe you more. It makes more sense for them to get a job, then wait and invest their money in BTS or not.

If someone was to "take accountability" and only be paid if the marketcap doubled, how do they know what thousands of quasi-irrational people are going to do ? It would be foolish to take such a deal without asking to be paid far FAAARRRR above market rates when the market cap doubles. No one would like that either.

I am not commenting on the past, but startups can blow through cash like crazy.  That is not going on currently.  If you want to win, you need to advance. Not sit around fingers cross hoping and praying for some magic to occur.

[Pheonike]

This is indeed a funny picture . Instead of building a house like the normal way on the ground , workers lift the house up and hold it up , and the house will be destroyed and hit the ground the hard way once the workers decided to leave .  Workers don't sign up for building the house on the ground , they sign up for holding the house in the air .  They're working really hard to hold the house in the air .

Tell me this is the kind of house that you'll feel comfortable to pay for .

You guys even interpret cartoon wrong. The is showing the workers are the foundation to build on. I guess the don't build houses with a foundation in China, that's why everything's falls apart so much over there.

[pc]

This is indeed a funny picture . Instead of building a house like the normal way on the ground , workers lift the house up and hold it up , and the house will be destroyed and hit the ground the hard way once the workers decided to leave .  Workers don't sign up for building the house on the ground , they sign up for holding the house in the air .  They're working really hard to hold the house in the air .

You're misunderstanding. They're not holding the house up, they're carrying the stones to the building site.

[cass]

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Nothing to add...
Thanks for the reminder, will give it a try .. 

[chryspano]

I find funny only the sophistry you used, btw your "no dilution at all costs" dogma is based on sophistry too. If you guys want to transform BTS in to another shitcoin just fork it and do whatever you want, you can hard code no "dilution for 17634526 years and start waiting for suckers to do all the hard work for free, it's hard to find those suckers right now but I'm sure all they are waiting for to show up in thousands is a fork.

It seems that I always forget the "succes" of pump and dump shitcoins lite dogecoin, what YOU forget is that dogecoin has inflation too, Ethereum has HUGE inflation too. But no more talks, we will surpas them all! we will do the unthinkable! we will do absolutly NOTHING and our marketcap will RISE because we know for sure that there are too many idiots out there that would buy another useless shitcoin! Not?
 
/rambling