Author Topic: Local Money System  (Read 2075 times)

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Offline bitacer

I highly recommend you to watch this video :  https://youtu.be/wdyQqgmkwiM
http://www.qoin.org

@bitacer  Cool video indeed. I have much better understanding of what do you mean. Imo, this local money system could be easily brought to blockchain with a smart asset which replaces collateral with trust. UIA is sort of this type of asset, but the problem is that you can't borrow it. Here is how this could work.

A committee, which is elected by community, creates an asset. Let's call it community dollar (CD).  Every community member, i.e. white listed account, is able to issue CDs to existence by borrowing them up to certain limit, which is defined by community. No interest, no collateral. Then the member can buy goods and services for his CDs or sell them on exchange for other assets. When the member reaches his credit limit, he needs to repay debt by providing services to community or by buying CDs on the market. Credit limit can increase or decrease for each member according to the reputation rules defined by community.

Imo, purely trustless bitAssets and purely based on trust assets must have on blockchain. Both have plenty of applications.

Yes , these guys are working on that model: http://desperado-theory.blogspot.com

Offline yvv

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I highly recommend you to watch this video :  https://youtu.be/wdyQqgmkwiM
http://www.qoin.org

@bitacer  Cool video indeed. I have much better understanding of what do you mean. Imo, this local money system could be easily brought to blockchain with a smart asset which replaces collateral with trust. UIA is sort of this type of asset, but the problem is that you can't borrow it. Here is how this could work.

A committee, which is elected by community, creates an asset. Let's call it community dollar (CD).  Every community member, i.e. white listed account, is able to issue CDs to existence by borrowing them up to certain limit, which is defined by community. No interest, no collateral. Then the member can buy goods and services for his CDs or sell them on exchange for other assets. When the member reaches his credit limit, he needs to repay debt by providing services to community or by buying CDs on the market. Credit limit can increase or decrease for each member according to the reputation rules defined by community.

Imo, purely trustless bitAssets and purely based on trust assets must have on blockchain. Both have plenty of applications.

Offline bitacer

Quote
So there is a need for new feature for asset: it's value should be able to go negative.

It does not matter if there is a minus sign in front of the value, or it is written in a separate "liability" column. When you issued a token, it has to be reflected in your account budget. This is your debt.

Yeah, but how to do this in a user-friendly way?

Localmoney/timebank/etc systems are not going to be able serve large crowds, but they can work in a small groups where most of the people know each other. I don't see a big market there for Bitshares, but it would be nice to have those people onboard too, especially if it doesn't require much customization.

Self powering nature of community currencies could spread like a wild fire once their benefits are thoroughly understood,  yes they dont serve large crowds in the sense national currencies do but the diversity they provide can set a much more robust and resilient financial system . And if a platform like BitShares can function as a credit clearing exchange system by utilising market makers and pathfinding mechanisms across its markets people will create their own currencies. The idea here is to have hundreds of thousands of communities using one platform so their credit can find corresponding value. At the end of the day the goal is to exchange values, and value is not in tools like money or numbers you use but in individuals . Otherwise we will keep inventing debt based solutions. 

I highly recommend you to watch this video :  https://youtu.be/wdyQqgmkwiM
http://www.qoin.org
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 07:32:17 pm by bitacer »

Offline Samupaha

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Quote
So there is a need for new feature for asset: it's value should be able to go negative.

It does not matter if there is a minus sign in front of the value, or it is written in a separate "liability" column. When you issued a token, it has to be reflected in your account budget. This is your debt.

Yeah, but how to do this in a user-friendly way?

Localmoney/timebank/etc systems are not going to be able serve large crowds, but they can work in a small groups where most of the people know each other. I don't see a big market there for Bitshares, but it would be nice to have those people onboard too, especially if it doesn't require much customization.

Offline yvv

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Quote
So there is a need for new feature for asset: it's value should be able to go negative.

It does not matter if there is a minus sign in front of the value, or it is written in a separate "liability" column. When you issued a token, it has to be reflected in your account budget. This is your debt.


Offline bitacer

Seems like User Issued Assets could be very useful for him: https://bitshares.org/technology/user-issued-assets/

Yes , but it seems that all those I contacted dont want features of a typical money, in fact they are not interested in money at all. Most of them interested in some sort of credit system where users are credited and debited with assets such as units of time . With UIAs you can either have it or not, you cant be minus.

Good point, didn't think of that.

So there is a need for new feature for asset: it's value should be able to go negative. Or maybe a new asset type? This shouldn't be too difficult to implement?

Question then is, who will pay for it? Probably those users should fund it who will need it. If these local money people have software developers in their group, maybe they can implement it themselves and Bitshares needs only to accept it into the blockchain. This would be the easiest way. They will get to use a great blockchain and don't need to build their own. They can focus on user experience and UI and leave the rest of the stuff for Bitshares.

Some guys from either from Germany or Switzerland  have this idea where users create their own time based vouchers currencies - they call it Minutos . Very interesting idea. http://www.minutoportal.info/data/en/Minuto-informations-Dez2013.pdf . In their system one can create his or her own time vouchers but there is a catch two other person must back him up by stamping and signing his voucher along their detailed info like addressed and all that. They also predetermine and record on vouchers how many years his voucher will be valid for. Very cool idea. Minutos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU8OCx_MO4E
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 06:20:36 pm by bitacer »

Offline Samupaha

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Seems like User Issued Assets could be very useful for him: https://bitshares.org/technology/user-issued-assets/

Yes , but it seems that all those I contacted dont want features of a typical money, in fact they are not interested in money at all. Most of them interested in some sort of credit system where users are credited and debited with assets such as units of time . With UIAs you can either have it or not, you cant be minus.

Good point, didn't think of that.

So there is a need for new feature for asset: it's value should be able to go negative. Or maybe a new asset type? This shouldn't be too difficult to implement?

Question then is, who will pay for it? Probably those users should fund it who will need it. If these local money people have software developers in their group, maybe they can implement it themselves and Bitshares needs only to accept it into the blockchain. This would be the easiest way. They will get to use a great blockchain and don't need to build their own. They can focus on user experience and UI and leave the rest of the stuff for Bitshares.

Offline yvv

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Seems like User Issued Assets could be very useful for him: https://bitshares.org/technology/user-issued-assets/

Yes , but it seems that all those I contacted dont want features of a typical money, in fact they are not interested in money at all. Most of them interested in some sort of credit system where users are credited and debited with assets such as units of time . With UIAs you can either have it or not, you cant be minus.

What? How are UIA issued then? You don't have negative balance when you issue asset and give it away? That would be fundamentally wrong!

Offline bitacer

Seems like User Issued Assets could be very useful for him: https://bitshares.org/technology/user-issued-assets/

Yes , but it seems that all those I contacted dont want features of a typical money, in fact they are not interested in money at all. Most of them interested in some sort of credit system where users are credited and debited with assets such as units of time . With UIAs you can either have it or not, you cant be minus.

Offline Samupaha

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Seems like User Issued Assets could be very useful for him: https://bitshares.org/technology/user-issued-assets/

Offline bitacer

This is from someone else that I contacted about bitshares.

Thanks bitacer,

I've been thinking about blockchains for some years, but I never had a
developer other than myself to play with.
What I think is needed is a customised blockchain because credit
issuance is not at all like bitcoin issuance or like digital assets, and
I want to work with trust instead of trustlessness.
Here is some of my thinking on that if you are interested.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12zpjKmEQ9vWMYJz9BcNMgiDq6kbNfT5iZoQd1vJ1FpA/edit#
Matthew

Find out more about my work in local money systems:
Twitter: @matslats
http://matslats.net
http://matslats.net/complementary_currencies
Co-founder & CTO Community Forge[http://communityforge.net/]
Lead developer, Community Exchange
Systems[http://community-exchange.org/]
Maintainer, Global Ecovillage Network
'Sites'[http://sites.ecovillage.org/]