Author Topic: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)  (Read 13089 times)

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Offline EstefanTT

Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2016, 10:50:20 pm »
+5% +5% +5%  for the initiative !!!


some thoughts...

I think if you want to stick to the "best" 20 crypto's you should use the first 20 with the biggest volume NOT the 20 with the  biggest marketcap.... because we will see many shitcoins on the list very often....
if bit20 is depended from marketcap only it will be very misleading...  And not only use the 24h volume of course... we can use the top 20 crypto with the biggest weekly or monthly volume....

if you want to stick only with the marketacap then I prefer a bit10 index instead of the bit20 so that crap coins get out-filtered...
That's an interesting idea !

On the other hand, it would be sad for the data we already have collected since July 2015 on the Bit20 vs Fiat10, other fiat and cryptos.

My first though is the volume can vary quickly and it would change the composition of the Bit20 too often. Also, a coin loosing his reputation and his market cap with a lot of sellers and volume would climb up in the index when it should go down.
The weight can also be very challenging to define if we don't use the MC.

Any other comments on this idea ?
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
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Offline liondani

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Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2016, 11:17:16 pm »
My first though is the volume can vary quickly and it would change the composition of the Bit20 too often.

No if you use the average weekly or monthly volume!


PS you can use both (marketcap + volume) but give 70% weight to volume and 30% weight to marketcap for example...

Offline jz831

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Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2016, 02:36:35 am »
My first though is the volume can vary quickly and it would change the composition of the Bit20 too often.

No if you use the average weekly or monthly volume!


PS you can use both (marketcap + volume) but give 70% weight to volume and 30% weight to marketcap for example...

 +5%

This is a great idea, and discussion.  I look forward to seeing what develops.
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Offline JonnyB

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Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2016, 04:39:32 am »
+5% +5% +5%  for the initiative !!!


some thoughts...

I think if you want to stick to the "best" 20 crypto's you should use the first 20 with the biggest volume NOT the 20 with the  biggest marketcap.... because we will see many shitcoins on the list very often....
if bit20 is depended from marketcap only it will be very misleading...  And not only use the 24h volume of course... we can use the top 20 crypto with the biggest weekly or monthly volume....

if you want to stick only with the marketacap then I prefer a bit10 index instead of the bit20 so that crap coins get out-filtered...

I support this point. Market cap is a bad measure of performance. Issue trillions of shit coins and get #1 market cap. Look at ripple for example. Trade volume is the only good way to evaluate crypto token performance.

trade volume is also easily faked
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Offline liondani

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Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2016, 08:01:24 am »
trade volume is also easily faked

thats true !

Maybe that is one more reason to use both parameters... Volume + Marketcap (with a 70%-30% weight or something like that)
we could optimally  use even  more data, to choose the top cryptos for our bit20 index but I am afraid it will get too complicated ...

a very good example of doing this "pickup"  is
https://cyber.fund/

they seem to have made a good job with "Scoring Coefficients"
https://github.com/cyberFund/cyberrating/blob/master/scoring.md

In reality they could  ([member=20504]21xhipster[/member]) already use their idea and link their "cyber-fund" with a BTS created smartcoin  instead of a UIA they created using "colored coins"...
I bet they would gain much more traction from the cryptospace    ;)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 08:05:33 am by liondani »

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Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2016, 06:34:28 pm »
I'd buy bit 20 :)

Offline 21xhipster

Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2016, 10:03:11 pm »
trade volume is also easily faked

thats true !

Maybe that is one more reason to use both parameters... Volume + Marketcap (with a 70%-30% weight or something like that)
we could optimally  use even  more data, to choose the top cryptos for our bit20 index but I am afraid it will get too complicated ...

a very good example of doing this "pickup"  is
https://cyber.fund/

they seem to have made a good job with "Scoring Coefficients"
https://github.com/cyberFund/cyberrating/blob/master/scoring.md

In reality they could  ([member=20504]21xhipster[/member]) already use their idea and link their "cyber-fund" with a BTS created smartcoin  instead of a UIA they created using "colored coins"...
I bet they would gain much more traction from the cryptospace    ;)

My methodology is quite raw now and need to be (1) fine tuned and polished. That is iterative job. But when I started this thing the goal in fact was to design a set of criteria for any kind of indexes. I'd be happy to hear any feedback and improvements proposals. We are going (2) to switch to our personal price feeds (http://api.cyber.fund) from Coinmarketcap feeds - they are ready and wait for integration with supply info. Also there is a task (3) to get supply info (for correct weighting) for top rated systems directly from nodes and not from trusted (CMC get it from simple url from anywhere) and often incorrect sources like CMC. Once we finish this 3 tasks I think there will be a place for reliable industrial grade index like bit-20 smartcoin or cyber-20 :-) or whatever. Until this done this index would look like a toy for a sandbox. Probably we should keep things much more simple and start from what we have now. What do you think?
https://cyber.fund/ - Decetnralized Investment Platform

Offline kingslanding

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Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2016, 10:28:10 pm »
Coingecko has an interesting mix.  Mouse over the ?'s to see explanation of each weighting.

https://www.coingecko.com/en
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Offline 21xhipster

Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2016, 11:34:03 pm »
BTW
I've create prototype asset. http://cryptofresh.com/a/CYIND.
Would like hear your recommendations how this thing can be configured for better, as to be honest I don't clearly understand all parameters behind.
I'd also like to know why I was not able to create Smartcoin wth permissions witnesses/committee permissions?

[member=8591]kingslanding[/member] I like some things in Coingecko approach, guys did a huge job, but (1) lack of really meaningful assets like Factom, Synereo, Augur, etc., (2) incorrect methodology of cap calculation (like CMC, cutted Ripple, Stellar, Storj supply and as result artificial overvaluation) and (3) non natural or dumb logic of weighting. As result you can see Litecoin (which is stagnating even against USD) in the 3d place and beautiful and really growing (in terms of account and transactions) BitShares at 9th place, or Vertcoin (! what the hell) is 13 and Storj which is awesome at 25 position. You can compare Coingecko with our results if you sort by rating on https://cyber.fund and you'll see a difference.
Update:
Our rating has some obvious fuckups, but they are because of content which is in work though.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 11:36:49 pm by 21xhipster »
https://cyber.fund/ - Decetnralized Investment Platform

Offline yvv

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Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 11:51:18 pm »
BTW
I've create prototype asset. http://cryptofresh.com/a/CYIND.
Would like hear your recommendations how this thing can be configured for better, as to be honest I don't clearly understand all parameters behind.
I'd also like to know why I was not able to create Smartcoin wth permissions witnesses/committee permissions?

[member=8591]kingslanding[/member] I like some things in Coingecko approach, guys did a huge job, but (1) lack of really meaningful assets like Factom, Synereo, Augur, etc., (2) incorrect methodology of cap calculation (like CMC, cutted Ripple, Stellar, Storj supply and as result artificial overvaluation) and (3) non natural or dumb logic of weighting. As result you can see Litecoin (which is stagnating even against USD) in the 3d place and beautiful and really growing (in terms of account and transactions) BitShares at 9th place, or Vertcoin (! what the hell) is 13 and Storj which is awesome at 25 position. You can compare Coingecko with our results if you sort by rating on https://cyber.fund and you'll see a difference.
Update:
Our rating has some obvious fuckups, but they are because of content which is in work though.

So, this is a real problem, to come up with a good methodology for index. Creating a coin after that is really trivial task.

Offline EstefanTT

Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2016, 12:22:38 am »
There is plenty of ways to weight an index. In the crypto currencies world, there will be probably, in the future, lots of indexes.

For now, I have a good one running since july 2015 and giving an acurate information about the evolution of the crypto currencies in a global way vs fiat money. I just have to make the economical input information scripts a little more reliable and create the smartcoin. It probbaly can be done in a matter of days.

I made this thread to brainstorm with this community on the index before creating it. When I see that 21xhipster rushed into creating some sort of Bit20 without understanding fully the details of it, I feel that I shouldn't have share publicly my idea about the index I was going to create.

BitShares is a free market place, everyone is free to do whatever he wants on it. I knew there were the possibility that someone could try to create an index before I do.

Anyway, from now on, I won't share any more details on the index composition and structure, nor the website and other related projects. I'll only participate to the debate and brainstorn to avoid giving to much information. The bit20 website is also disable at the moment, it will be available again soon, after I remove the sensitive information from tne public side.

Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
(BitShares French ConneXion - www.bitsharesfcx.com)

Offline 21xhipster

Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2016, 12:26:56 am »
There is plenty of ways to weight an index. In the crypto currencies world, there will be probably, in the future, lots of indexes.

For now, I have a good one running since july 2015 and giving an acurate information about the evolution of the crypto currencies in a global way vs fiat money. I just have to make the economical input information scripts a little more reliable and create the smartcoin. It probbaly can be done in a matter of days.

I made this thread to brainstorm with this community on the index before creating it. When I see that 21xhipster rushed into creating some sort of Bit20 without understanding fully the details of it, I feel that I shouldn't have share publicly my idea about the index I was going to create.

BitShares is a free market place, everyone is free to do whatever he wants on it. I knew there were the possibility that someone could try to create an index before I do.

Anyway, from now on, I won't share any more details on the index composition and structure, nor the website and other related projects. I'll only participate to the debate and brainstorm to avoid giving to much information. The bit20 website is also disable at the moment, it will be available again soon, after I remove the sensitive information from tne public side.
First nothing was actually created yet. I've just was curious how I can use in what I invested almost two years ago :-) We have our own methodology we are working for 2 years already which was published long time ago :-) I don't understand what you are worrying about really :-)
Update: BTW everything we do is fully open source and we are not worrying that somebody steal that :-) Take it, really! https://github.com/cyberFund
And I think I understand a litle deeper than you think how that index should work. Check it http://academia.edu/22691395/cyber_Rating_Crypto_Property_Evaluation
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 12:39:39 am by 21xhipster »
https://cyber.fund/ - Decetnralized Investment Platform

Offline EstefanTT

Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2016, 12:29:37 am »
A few month ago, there was a debate on the "PERCENT OFFSET OF FORCED SETTLEMENTS" and the "Max force settle vol" for BitUSD and other smartcoins. I think TCNY have done it differently that BitUSD.

Do someone have an opinion on wich kind of values would fit better to an index ?
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
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Offline EstefanTT

Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2016, 12:43:54 am »
There is plenty of ways to weight an index. In the crypto currencies world, there will be probably, in the future, lots of indexes.

For now, I have a good one running since july 2015 and giving an acurate information about the evolution of the crypto currencies in a global way vs fiat money. I just have to make the economical input information scripts a little more reliable and create the smartcoin. It probbaly can be done in a matter of days.

I made this thread to brainstorm with this community on the index before creating it. When I see that 21xhipster rushed into creating some sort of Bit20 without understanding fully the details of it, I feel that I shouldn't have share publicly my idea about the index I was going to create.

BitShares is a free market place, everyone is free to do whatever he wants on it. I knew there were the possibility that someone could try to create an index before I do.

Anyway, from now on, I won't share any more details on the index composition and structure, nor the website and other related projects. I'll only participate to the debate and brainstorm to avoid giving to much information. The bit20 website is also disable at the moment, it will be available again soon, after I remove the sensitive information from tne public side.
First nothing was actually created yet. I've just was curious how I can use in what I invested almost two years ago :-) We have our own methodology we are working for 2 years already which was published long time ago :-) I don't understand what you are worrying about really :-)

I just expressed my concerns about the fact that it wasn't maybe a good idea to openly discuss my plan on making a crypto index on BitShares.

Competion is good and more indexes on this platform will benefit BitShares wich is the most important to me.

You'll agree with me that it's completely natural that I don't want to give more information about my project on creating a index of the top 20 crypto by MC when I see two days after I create a thread about it that someone create a >>>

"cyber•Index 20
Cyber Index. Include Top-20 assets by capitalization"


I'm sure you can understand my position.

If I may suggest, you have been working on a way to select the best crypto currencies with sophisticated process. That's an impressiv work ! You should take advantage of all this work and create a index different from what I'm doing, something based on what you have in cyber.fund. It would be great to see how our both indexes are progressing vs fiat money and vs each other !


 
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
(BitShares French ConneXion - www.bitsharesfcx.com)

Offline Erlich Bachman

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Re: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2016, 12:48:24 am »
wow, great initiative, and super easy to market !

who doesn't want a piece of the crypto action right now!

And this is the lowest risk way to play the market
You own the network, but who pays for development?