Author Topic: BIT20 Smartcoin, top 20 cryptos weighted index (ETF like)  (Read 18045 times)

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Offline JonnyB

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+5% +5% +5%  for the initiative !!!


some thoughts...

I think if you want to stick to the "best" 20 crypto's you should use the first 20 with the biggest volume NOT the 20 with the  biggest marketcap.... because we will see many shitcoins on the list very often....
if bit20 is depended from marketcap only it will be very misleading...  And not only use the 24h volume of course... we can use the top 20 crypto with the biggest weekly or monthly volume....

if you want to stick only with the marketacap then I prefer a bit10 index instead of the bit20 so that crap coins get out-filtered...

I support this point. Market cap is a bad measure of performance. Issue trillions of shit coins and get #1 market cap. Look at ripple for example. Trade volume is the only good way to evaluate crypto token performance.

trade volume is also easily faked
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Offline jz831

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My first though is the volume can vary quickly and it would change the composition of the Bit20 too often.

No if you use the average weekly or monthly volume!


PS you can use both (marketcap + volume) but give 70% weight to volume and 30% weight to marketcap for example...

 +5%

This is a great idea, and discussion.  I look forward to seeing what develops.
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Offline liondani

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My first though is the volume can vary quickly and it would change the composition of the Bit20 too often.

No if you use the average weekly or monthly volume!


PS you can use both (marketcap + volume) but give 70% weight to volume and 30% weight to marketcap for example...

Offline EstefanTT

+5% +5% +5%  for the initiative !!!


some thoughts...

I think if you want to stick to the "best" 20 crypto's you should use the first 20 with the biggest volume NOT the 20 with the  biggest marketcap.... because we will see many shitcoins on the list very often....
if bit20 is depended from marketcap only it will be very misleading...  And not only use the 24h volume of course... we can use the top 20 crypto with the biggest weekly or monthly volume....

if you want to stick only with the marketacap then I prefer a bit10 index instead of the bit20 so that crap coins get out-filtered...
That's an interesting idea !

On the other hand, it would be sad for the data we already have collected since July 2015 on the Bit20 vs Fiat10, other fiat and cryptos.

My first though is the volume can vary quickly and it would change the composition of the Bit20 too often. Also, a coin loosing his reputation and his market cap with a lot of sellers and volume would climb up in the index when it should go down.
The weight can also be very challenging to define if we don't use the MC.

Any other comments on this idea ?
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
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Offline yvv

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+5% +5% +5%  for the initiative !!!


some thoughts...

I think if you want to stick to the "best" 20 crypto's you should use the first 20 with the biggest volume NOT the 20 with the  biggest marketcap.... because we will see many shitcoins on the list very often....
if bit20 is depended from marketcap only it will be very misleading...  And not only use the 24h volume of course... we can use the top 20 crypto with the biggest weekly or monthly volume....

if you want to stick only with the marketacap then I prefer a bit10 index instead of the bit20 so that crap coins get out-filtered...

I support this point. Market cap is a bad measure of performance. Issue trillions of shit coins and get #1 market cap. Look at ripple for example. Trade volume is the only good way to evaluate crypto token performance.

Offline EstefanTT

Great initiative.  Let me know if there is any way I can assist.
I will ! This thread is also a way to know people interested in the project ;)
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
(BitShares French ConneXion - www.bitsharesfcx.com)

Offline liondani

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 +5% +5% +5%  for the initiative !!!


some thoughts...

I think if you want to stick to the "best" 20 crypto's you should use the first 20 with the biggest volume NOT the 20 with the  biggest marketcap.... because we will see many shitcoins on the list very often....
if bit20 is depended from marketcap only it will be very misleading...  And not only use the 24h volume of course... we can use the top 20 crypto with the biggest weekly or monthly volume....

if you want to stick only with the marketacap then I prefer a bit10 index instead of the bit20 so that crap coins get out-filtered... 

Offline puppies

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Great initiative.  Let me know if there is any way I can assist. 
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Offline hcf27

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Oh yeah, something else:

I also think a ETF Share token should be issued so that contributors get some sort of reward, @EstefanTT mentioned an idea like this on a previous thread and I thought it was quite incentive and a perfect way to do some crowdfunding too.
I mentioned it in the other thread. I have been thinking about creating a UIA that would represent 100% of the benefits coming from the 0.1% cut taking on the trades of the index.
That would allow us to reward easily anyone helping in the project.
I will probably create the UIA when I create the smartcoin and a buyback or dividend system would be use.
+5%

Offline EstefanTT

Oh yeah, something else:

I also think a ETF Share token should be issued so that contributors get some sort of reward, @EstefanTT mentioned an idea like this on a previous thread and I thought it was quite incentive and a perfect way to do some crowdfunding too.
I mentioned it in the other thread. I have been thinking about creating a UIA that would represent 100% of the benefits coming from the 0.1% cut taking on the trades of the index.
That would allow us to reward easily anyone helping in the project.
I will probably create the UIA when I create the smartcoin and a buyback or dividend system would be use.
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
(BitShares French ConneXion - www.bitsharesfcx.com)

Offline hcf27

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Oh yeah, something else:

I also think a ETF Share token should be issued so that contributors get some sort of reward, @EstefanTT mentioned an idea like this on a previous thread and I thought it was quite incentive and a perfect way to do some crowdfunding too.


Offline EstefanTT

Well, we still have to understand the process of providing the price feed in graphene and test it so it will work properly.
I'll have time to work on a basic but serious web site at the same time we complete the smartcoin techy part.

Off course, when we are ready to create the smartcoin, even if the web site is not ready, we will do it without waiting ! The web site can come later.

BITTWENTY o BITWENTY could be a good name. We are still thinking about it. Any idea is welcome !
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
(BitShares French ConneXion - www.bitsharesfcx.com)

Offline hcf27

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First + 1 + 1 + 1  for going ahead with this.


 I definitely think you should use bitBTC as collateral. This also means btc should not be part of the index. [Using bitUSD is the only thing better but you will just not find people (in crypto space) believing that all/top crypto will go down against fiat, so no shorters..]

Why bitBTC :
- it is easy to bet on BTC as it is- you just hold btc. And 99.9% of the people already hold btc before even coming into BTS.
- you will have much more people interested in betting on top 20 cryptos against BTC (as opposed to against BTS)
- for the shorters - being short the index against BTS as easy as pie - you short bitBTC to yourself and use the bitBTC to short the bitTop20

I am absolutely positive going with BTS as collateral will be a big mistake. Drop me PM if you do not understand/want me to expand on the reasoning above.

I would prefer to create the debate in this thread than move it in a private channel.

Don't you think that we lack of liquidity in the BitShares BTC market to really kick off the Bit20 ?  Maybe if we had already the sidechain in place ... I don't want to wait we reach high liquidity in all our major smartcoins market to see grow the BIT20 but rather be able to start creating liquidity since the very first day.

I thought BTS was a good choice but the debate is pretty much alive !!

BTS has higher volatility than BTC, so more oportunities to make a profit will arise for buyers, sellers and shorters as the price spikes up and down.
That's also basically why I though BitUSD wouldn't be a great choice, I don't see anyone in his right mind shorting BIT20 Vs BitUSD.

Hello,

I am glad this project is going forward, count with me for anything you need, as I have said in several occasions I think this is a great idea.

I think collateral should be BTS, its just way simpler, most people dont even understand what BitBTC is... its like BTC but then its not... so if we used BitBTC we would be like shorting twice, you short bts to get bitBTC and then you short BitBTC to get Bit20, its just makes things really complicated for newbies IMO.

I love the name bit20 and the logo you have made, since we cant have number I would say  bitTWENTY so we can keep the logo with the numbers.

I agree that we should create the token and then start doing some marketing to get liquidity, I am sure people would love it.


 

Offline yvv

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This is great! Bit20 and fiat10 is a dream of investor. Make BTS as collateral.

Edit: Don't worry about web site, translations and other farts and whistles for now. Just make your tokens and let us trade.
 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 06:52:07 pm by yvv »

Offline tonyk

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First + 1 + 1 + 1  for going ahead with this.


 I definitely think you should use bitBTC as collateral. This also means btc should not be part of the index. [Using bitUSD is the only thing better but you will just not find people (in crypto space) believing that all/top crypto will go down against fiat, so no shorters..]

Why bitBTC :
- it is easy to bet on BTC as it is- you just hold btc. And 99.9% of the people already hold btc before even coming into BTS.
- you will have much more people interested in betting on top 20 cryptos against BTC (as opposed to against BTS)
- for the shorters - being short the index against BTS as easy as pie - you short bitBTC to yourself and use the bitBTC to short the bitTop20

I am absolutely positive going with BTS as collateral will be a big mistake. Drop me PM if you do not understand/want me to expand on the reasoning above.

I would prefer to create the debate in this thread than move it in a private channel.

Don't you think that we lack of liquidity in the BitShares BTC market to really kick off the Bit20 ? Maybe if we had already the sidechain in place ... I don't want to wait we reach high liquidity in all our major smartcoins market to see grow the BIT20 but rather be able to start creating liquidity since the very first day.

I thought BTS was a good choice but the debate is pretty much alive !!

BTS has higher volatility than BTC, so more oportunities to make a profit will arise for buyers, sellers and shorters as the price spikes up and down.
That's also basically why I though BitUSD wouldn't be a great choice, I don't see anyone in his right mind shorting BIT20 Vs BitUSD.


I think this:
- for the shorters - being short the index against BTS as easy as pie - you short bitBTC to yourself and use the bitBTC to short the bitTop20
So in other words -  in reality the lack of liquidity in bitBTC does not matter much. You do that to open a short position in bittop20 without needing any bitBTC on the market. Same goes to closing it - you free your bitBTC from the collateral and close your short bitBTC with them.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 06:25:47 pm by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.