Author Topic: BitARS - SmartCoin Petition  (Read 10432 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1920
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab

Hey @bitcrab ,

Thanks for your input, I was also going to ask you what paremeters you thought were appropriate, given you have experience creating and runnnig a few smartcoins.

I agree that we need encourage shorters, in my opinion we should have something similar to TCNY :

"force_settlement_offset_percent": 0 ~ 1%,
 "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2%,

Now, I wanted to ask you @bitcrab, if as a Committee member you could create and put up the worker proposal?, we can create a different forum thread explaining the proposal so that it can be linked to the worker.

We will provide all the votes from argentinian members and I dont think we would have much resistence from other voters since the fees for creatig the asset will go back to the network.

Nota: @rnglab Gracias por tu bienvenida amigo, creo que Argentina se merece una smartcoin, un abrazo!

I just discussed with some committee members, currently no problem, just need some more time to get opinion from enough members and coordinate on how to do it.

 "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0 ~ 1%  need to determine 0 or 1%.

as a shorter of CNY, my debt position has been force settled for several times, but step by step I found this is not a big issue, in almost all the times I can hedge the risk by operate in negative direction in ex-markets. for TCNY, up to now no real force settlement happens, in other words, this liquidity-making method is not used for TCNY.

so I suggest to check whether there is BTS/ARS ex-market with enough depth for shorters to easily hedge risk, if no then 1% should be better than 0. if yes 0 should be better.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline hcf27

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: hcf27
below are the settlement relevant parameters of CNY.
Code: [Select]
"options": {
    "feed_lifetime_sec": 21600,
    "minimum_feeds": 3,
    "force_settlement_delay_sec": 86400,
    "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0,
    "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 200,
    "short_backing_asset": "1.3.0",
    "extensions": []
  },

in which these 2 need to discuss:
 "force_settlement_offset_percent"
  "maximum_force_settlement_volume"

current setting for different assets:
USD(also default setting):
 "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0%
  "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 20%

CNY:
 "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0%,
  "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2%,

TCNY:
"force_settlement_offset_percent": 1%,
"maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2%,

when settlement feature firstly comes, we are somehow scared and even had tried to close the settlement feature of CNY, and at last the discussion ended at reducing the force settlement volume from 20% to 2%.

settlement bring liquidity and make bitasset more acceptable, but it discourage/hurt shorters, so this is a problem of balance, I created TCNY as I have thought the settlement launcher need to compensate some price to the shorter, maybe 1% or 2%.

but now I changed my mind a little, seems even 0% compensation is OK, but 20% maximum settlement volume is too high, so I advice to set ARS parameters like this:
 "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0%,
 "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2~5%,

Hey @bitcrab ,

Thanks for your input, I was also going to ask you what paremeters you thought were appropriate, given you have experience creating and runnnig a few smartcoins.

I agree that we need encourage shorters, in my opinion we should have something similar to TCNY :

"force_settlement_offset_percent": 0 ~ 1%,
 "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2%,

Now, I wanted to ask you @bitcrab, if as a Committee member you could create and put up the worker proposal?, we can create a different forum thread explaining the proposal so that it can be linked to the worker.

We will provide all the votes from argentinian members and I dont think we would have much resistence from other voters since the fees for creatig the asset will go back to the network.

Nota: @rnglab Gracias por tu bienvenida amigo, creo que Argentina se merece una smartcoin, un abrazo!

« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 02:00:52 pm by hcf27 »

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1920
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
below are the settlement relevant parameters of CNY.
Code: [Select]
"options": {
    "feed_lifetime_sec": 21600,
    "minimum_feeds": 3,
    "force_settlement_delay_sec": 86400,
    "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0,
    "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 200,
    "short_backing_asset": "1.3.0",
    "extensions": []
  },

in which these 2 need to discuss:
 "force_settlement_offset_percent"
  "maximum_force_settlement_volume"

current setting for different assets:
USD(also default setting):
 "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0%
  "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 20%

CNY:
 "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0%,
  "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2%,

TCNY:
"force_settlement_offset_percent": 1%,
"maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2%,

when settlement feature firstly comes, we are somehow scared and even had tried to close the settlement feature of CNY, and at last the discussion ended at reducing the force settlement volume from 20% to 2%.

settlement bring liquidity and make bitasset more acceptable, but it discourage/hurt shorters, so this is a problem of balance, I created TCNY as I have thought the settlement launcher need to compensate some price to the shorter, maybe 1% or 2%.

but now I changed my mind a little, seems even 0% compensation is OK, but 20% maximum settlement volume is too high, so I advice to set ARS parameters like this:
 "force_settlement_offset_percent": 0%,
 "maximum_force_settlement_volume": 2~5%,


Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline rnglab

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: rnglab
I haven't talked about bitars except for elmato for a while with you guys. fran2k, etimarcus, dragonar, etc: I missed last meetups. A warm welcome to you @hcf27 , nice to see what you are doing.

I support this petition.  I'd also choose having the ARS bitasset available on the network instead of an uia in cases like this one.
It aims to open a lot of bridges to a large community, to let people take bitars and bitusd as their own in argentina. Not just for one or a few business and their users. This would be like a distributed official BitShares2 introduction to Argentina.  For me that means all fees should go back to the network, and  asset creation fee could also come from the network, accordingly.

A committee worker proposal sounds good to me for some specific bitassets at this price.

@bitcrab thanks for your input. Sorry but trading is not my strength and you have experience here: what parameters would you like to be able to change? I'd like to know specially the ones regarding forced settlement.

/*
btw, I still see traders surprised by the existence of forced settlement. Shouldn't  we prioritize working to introduce traders into that function through the UX, as a part of the game, or what am I missing?. It is something new for the most ,and it would be a shame to have users being surprised, scared, angry, or confused because of one misunderstood function.
*/

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1920
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
In order to create a 3-letter asset, the fee is 1,174,108 BTS. See https://cryptofresh.com/fees
Currently there are 1,422 BTS on the committee-account. See https://cryptofresh.com/u/committee-account

Even if this 1,422 BTS is permitted to be used to create the asset, we still need more than 1.17M BTS. How to get them? worker proposal? Or someone will donation?

By the way, if you have enough fund already, and willing to create the asset with that fund, you can change the owner of the asset to committee-account at any time.

It doesnt have to be 3 letters, it can be BitARS, which would cost aprox 1.500 for a lifetime member, I can create it and then transfer it to the Committe, however the real help here would be pushing the feed to the master so that the coin has a decentralized feed price, do you think this could be possible?

FYI:  In order to avoid confusion between fiat BitAssets and their various fiat UIA counterparts, the BitAsset versions are displayed in the UI with "bit" as a prefix.  So for example, instead of USD, it's bitUSD.  The reason I'm pointing this out is because if you choose "BitARS" as your symbol, then it will display in the UI as bitBitARS.  That doesn't seem desirable at all.

Thanks for that info..

I dont think paying more than 1.000.000 BTS for the asset is a viable option, unless we create a worker.. another option would be to create bitARGSP

So I could create ARGSP, which is a five letter word and cost me 1.500 bts aprox, then pass it on to the Committe, would that work?

Seems it would be most desirable to use the proper 3-character ISO code "ARS".  Why not do a worker proposal to accomplish that?

Yes, I agree.

We can do a worker proposal, create the asset and pass it over to the Committee, or the Committe could create the worker proposal and create the smartcoin.

I prefer the second option personally, that way everything is more official. Also, the fees of creating this coin will go back to the network so there will be no dilution here.

I suppose if the worker doesnt get funded we always have the option of creating a 5 letter smart asset, but we would be like the bastard son of smartcoins hehe

I prefer to let the committee create the worker proposal and create the smartcoin.
however, I think Argentina community should consider the parameter setting of ARS and propose- whether the default value is ok or some special setting is needed, especially for the settlement related parameters.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline hcf27

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: hcf27
In order to create a 3-letter asset, the fee is 1,174,108 BTS. See https://cryptofresh.com/fees
Currently there are 1,422 BTS on the committee-account. See https://cryptofresh.com/u/committee-account

Even if this 1,422 BTS is permitted to be used to create the asset, we still need more than 1.17M BTS. How to get them? worker proposal? Or someone will donation?

By the way, if you have enough fund already, and willing to create the asset with that fund, you can change the owner of the asset to committee-account at any time.

It doesnt have to be 3 letters, it can be BitARS, which would cost aprox 1.500 for a lifetime member, I can create it and then transfer it to the Committe, however the real help here would be pushing the feed to the master so that the coin has a decentralized feed price, do you think this could be possible?

FYI:  In order to avoid confusion between fiat BitAssets and their various fiat UIA counterparts, the BitAsset versions are displayed in the UI with "bit" as a prefix.  So for example, instead of USD, it's bitUSD.  The reason I'm pointing this out is because if you choose "BitARS" as your symbol, then it will display in the UI as bitBitARS.  That doesn't seem desirable at all.

Thanks for that info..

I dont think paying more than 1.000.000 BTS for the asset is a viable option, unless we create a worker.. another option would be to create bitARGSP

So I could create ARGSP, which is a five letter word and cost me 1.500 bts aprox, then pass it on to the Committe, would that work?

Seems it would be most desirable to use the proper 3-character ISO code "ARS".  Why not do a worker proposal to accomplish that?

Yes, I agree.

We can do a worker proposal, create the asset and pass it over to the Committee, or the Committe could create the worker proposal and create the smartcoin.

I prefer the second option personally, that way everything is more official. Also, the fees of creating this coin will go back to the network so there will be no dilution here.

I suppose if the worker doesnt get funded we always have the option of creating a 5 letter smart asset, but we would be like the bastard son of smartcoins hehe

I totally agree.  You should work with the committee to accomplish this.

Well, we will wait for a response from the Committe to see how we can proceed...

Offline pc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1530
    • View Profile
    • Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko?
  • BitShares: cyrano
You cannot register names starting with "bit".
Fiat-pegged assets should use the same symbol name as the fiat currency to which they're pegged, IMO.
I doubt that a worker proposal would be accepted, though. Possibly, if you argue that the funds will be returned to the network anyway.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline tbone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 632
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: tbone2
In order to create a 3-letter asset, the fee is 1,174,108 BTS. See https://cryptofresh.com/fees
Currently there are 1,422 BTS on the committee-account. See https://cryptofresh.com/u/committee-account

Even if this 1,422 BTS is permitted to be used to create the asset, we still need more than 1.17M BTS. How to get them? worker proposal? Or someone will donation?

By the way, if you have enough fund already, and willing to create the asset with that fund, you can change the owner of the asset to committee-account at any time.

It doesnt have to be 3 letters, it can be BitARS, which would cost aprox 1.500 for a lifetime member, I can create it and then transfer it to the Committe, however the real help here would be pushing the feed to the master so that the coin has a decentralized feed price, do you think this could be possible?

FYI:  In order to avoid confusion between fiat BitAssets and their various fiat UIA counterparts, the BitAsset versions are displayed in the UI with "bit" as a prefix.  So for example, instead of USD, it's bitUSD.  The reason I'm pointing this out is because if you choose "BitARS" as your symbol, then it will display in the UI as bitBitARS.  That doesn't seem desirable at all.

Thanks for that info..

I dont think paying more than 1.000.000 BTS for the asset is a viable option, unless we create a worker.. another option would be to create bitARGSP

So I could create ARGSP, which is a five letter word and cost me 1.500 bts aprox, then pass it on to the Committe, would that work?

Seems it would be most desirable to use the proper 3-character ISO code "ARS".  Why not do a worker proposal to accomplish that?

Yes, I agree.

We can do a worker proposal, create the asset and pass it over to the Committee, or the Committe could create the worker proposal and create the smartcoin.

I prefer the second option personally, that way everything is more official. Also, the fees of creating this coin will go back to the network so there will be no dilution here.

I suppose if the worker doesnt get funded we always have the option of creating a 5 letter smart asset, but we would be like the bastard son of smartcoins hehe

I totally agree.  You should work with the committee to accomplish this.

Offline hcf27

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: hcf27
In order to create a 3-letter asset, the fee is 1,174,108 BTS. See https://cryptofresh.com/fees
Currently there are 1,422 BTS on the committee-account. See https://cryptofresh.com/u/committee-account

Even if this 1,422 BTS is permitted to be used to create the asset, we still need more than 1.17M BTS. How to get them? worker proposal? Or someone will donation?

By the way, if you have enough fund already, and willing to create the asset with that fund, you can change the owner of the asset to committee-account at any time.

It doesnt have to be 3 letters, it can be BitARS, which would cost aprox 1.500 for a lifetime member, I can create it and then transfer it to the Committe, however the real help here would be pushing the feed to the master so that the coin has a decentralized feed price, do you think this could be possible?

FYI:  In order to avoid confusion between fiat BitAssets and their various fiat UIA counterparts, the BitAsset versions are displayed in the UI with "bit" as a prefix.  So for example, instead of USD, it's bitUSD.  The reason I'm pointing this out is because if you choose "BitARS" as your symbol, then it will display in the UI as bitBitARS.  That doesn't seem desirable at all.

Thanks for that info..

I dont think paying more than 1.000.000 BTS for the asset is a viable option, unless we create a worker.. another option would be to create bitARGSP

So I could create ARGSP, which is a five letter word and cost me 1.500 bts aprox, then pass it on to the Committe, would that work?

Seems it would be most desirable to use the proper 3-character ISO code "ARS".  Why not do a worker proposal to accomplish that?

Yes, I agree.

We can do a worker proposal, create the asset and pass it over to the Committee, or the Committe could create the worker proposal and create the smartcoin.

I prefer the second option personally, that way everything is more official. Also, the fees of creating this coin will go back to the network so there will be no dilution here.

I suppose if the worker doesnt get funded we always have the option of creating a 5 letter smart asset, but we would be like the bastard son of smartcoins hehe

Offline yvv

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
    • View Profile
How are smart coins without "bit" prefix created, like TCNY or ALTCAP?

Offline tbone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 632
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: tbone2
In order to create a 3-letter asset, the fee is 1,174,108 BTS. See https://cryptofresh.com/fees
Currently there are 1,422 BTS on the committee-account. See https://cryptofresh.com/u/committee-account

Even if this 1,422 BTS is permitted to be used to create the asset, we still need more than 1.17M BTS. How to get them? worker proposal? Or someone will donation?

By the way, if you have enough fund already, and willing to create the asset with that fund, you can change the owner of the asset to committee-account at any time.

It doesnt have to be 3 letters, it can be BitARS, which would cost aprox 1.500 for a lifetime member, I can create it and then transfer it to the Committe, however the real help here would be pushing the feed to the master so that the coin has a decentralized feed price, do you think this could be possible?

FYI:  In order to avoid confusion between fiat BitAssets and their various fiat UIA counterparts, the BitAsset versions are displayed in the UI with "bit" as a prefix.  So for example, instead of USD, it's bitUSD.  The reason I'm pointing this out is because if you choose "BitARS" as your symbol, then it will display in the UI as bitBitARS.  That doesn't seem desirable at all.

Thanks for that info..

I dont think paying more than 1.000.000 BTS for the asset is a viable option, unless we create a worker.. another option would be to create bitARGSP

So I could create ARGSP, which is a five letter word and cost me 1.500 bts aprox, then pass it on to the Committe, would that work?

Seems it would be most desirable to use the proper 3-character ISO code "ARS".  Why not do a worker proposal to accomplish that?

Offline hcf27

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: hcf27
In order to create a 3-letter asset, the fee is 1,174,108 BTS. See https://cryptofresh.com/fees
Currently there are 1,422 BTS on the committee-account. See https://cryptofresh.com/u/committee-account

Even if this 1,422 BTS is permitted to be used to create the asset, we still need more than 1.17M BTS. How to get them? worker proposal? Or someone will donation?

By the way, if you have enough fund already, and willing to create the asset with that fund, you can change the owner of the asset to committee-account at any time.

It doesnt have to be 3 letters, it can be BitARS, which would cost aprox 1.500 for a lifetime member, I can create it and then transfer it to the Committe, however the real help here would be pushing the feed to the master so that the coin has a decentralized feed price, do you think this could be possible?

FYI:  In order to avoid confusion between fiat BitAssets and their various fiat UIA counterparts, the BitAsset versions are displayed in the UI with "bit" as a prefix.  So for example, instead of USD, it's bitUSD.  The reason I'm pointing this out is because if you choose "BitARS" as your symbol, then it will display in the UI as bitBitARS.  That doesn't seem desirable at all.

Thanks for that info..

I dont think paying more than 1.000.000 BTS for the asset is a viable option, unless we create a worker.. another option would be to create bitARGSP

So I could create ARGSP, which is a five letter word and cost me 1.500 bts aprox, then pass it on to the Committe, would that work?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 08:03:48 pm by hcf27 »

Offline tbone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 632
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: tbone2
In order to create a 3-letter asset, the fee is 1,174,108 BTS. See https://cryptofresh.com/fees
Currently there are 1,422 BTS on the committee-account. See https://cryptofresh.com/u/committee-account

Even if this 1,422 BTS is permitted to be used to create the asset, we still need more than 1.17M BTS. How to get them? worker proposal? Or someone will donation?

By the way, if you have enough fund already, and willing to create the asset with that fund, you can change the owner of the asset to committee-account at any time.

It doesnt have to be 3 letters, it can be BitARS, which would cost aprox 1.500 for a lifetime member, I can create it and then transfer it to the Committe, however the real help here would be pushing the feed to the master so that the coin has a decentralized feed price, do you think this could be possible?

FYI:  In order to avoid confusion between fiat BitAssets and their various fiat UIA counterparts, the BitAsset versions are displayed in the UI with "bit" as a prefix.  So for example, instead of USD, it's bitUSD.  The reason I'm pointing this out is because if you choose "BitARS" as your symbol, then it will display in the UI as bitBitARS.  That doesn't seem desirable at all. 

Offline hcf27

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: hcf27
In order to create a 3-letter asset, the fee is 1,174,108 BTS. See https://cryptofresh.com/fees
Currently there are 1,422 BTS on the committee-account. See https://cryptofresh.com/u/committee-account

Even if this 1,422 BTS is permitted to be used to create the asset, we still need more than 1.17M BTS. How to get them? worker proposal? Or someone will donation?

By the way, if you have enough fund already, and willing to create the asset with that fund, you can change the owner of the asset to committee-account at any time.

It doesnt have to be 3 letters, it can be BitARS, which would cost aprox 1.500 for a lifetime member, I can create it and then transfer it to the Committe, however the real help here would be pushing the feed to the master so that the coin has a decentralized feed price, do you think this could be possible?

Offline abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4586
    • View Profile
    • Abit's Hive Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
In order to create a 3-letter asset, the fee is 1,174,108 BTS. See https://cryptofresh.com/fees
Currently there are 1,422 BTS on the committee-account. See https://cryptofresh.com/u/committee-account

Even if this 1,422 BTS is permitted to be used to create the asset, we still need more than 1.17M BTS. How to get them? worker proposal? Or someone will donation?

By the way, if you have enough fund already, and willing to create the asset with that fund, you can change the owner of the asset to committee-account at any time.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 06:44:58 pm by abit »
BitShares committee member: abit
BitShares witness: in.abit