Author Topic: [ANN-Updated 5/5] Peerplays Prelaunch - Millions are Waiting For You!  (Read 61245 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
However, our randomized player matching algorithm is one of the solutions we are working on to greatly eliminate the possibility of collusion in multiplayer buy-in tables for games like Texas hold'em. We will be discussing this more publicly in the months ahead.

 +5% effective randomized seating greatly reduces the possibility & impact of collusion.

What rake do you envisage being able to charge and when do you hope to the games will be available?

If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Yes, and those details are being released over the coming week.
Please direct me to the released content this week. I've continued to check the peerplays.com website as directed at launch but have yet to see any new content posted.

https://steemit.com/peerplays/@peerplays/peerplays-whitepaper

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1462351.0
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | Decentralized Gaming Built with Graphene - Now with BookiePro and Sweeps!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline Fox

Yes, and those details are being released over the coming week.
Please direct me to the released content this week. I've continued to check the peerplays.com website as directed at launch but have yet to see any new content posted.
Witness: fox

Offline abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
    • View Profile
    • Abit's Hive Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
BitShares committee member: abit
BitShares witness: in.abit

Offline mf-tzo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Finally a project with great potentials!!  +5% +5%

Can someone give us some estimations?

1) When the tokens will be tradable (low,mid,high) scenarios

2) When a GUI with some games will be available (low, mid, high) scenarios

Thanks!

Offline Nietzsche26

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Collusion in poker can be profitable in many ways, it can be as CryptoPrometheus described more or less, but it can vary from two buddies softplaying each others in a tournament "because they won't hurt each other", to professionnal players colluding to prey on the amateurs. in a cash game for example, two or more skilled players could exploit the weaker player at a bigger rate then they otherwise would by exchanging information on how are they going to play on each street in real time. colluding in tournaments can be very profitable also if done right. Some poker formats are already infested with collusion, Sit nGo's are dying because of 'Cartels' colluding and splitting profit (google for more details)
Even the established centralized platforms (ie pokerstars etc) can't stop it, soI'm really curious about how these type of issues are going to be adressed in the future.

Offline CryptoPrometheus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 324
    • View Profile
I am not talking about players exploiting/hacking the structure, game theory have nothing to do with collusion. I am talking about 2 players (or more) exchanging informations in order to gain an edge, or losing deliberatly against each other etc ...
I am a veteran poker player and well aware of the current centralized   approach to this issue; simply police and enforce, casino/gaming platforms have the means to detect and prove any wrongdoing (access to history, machine ids etc) and act as it sees fit to compensate, ban or whatever.
but in a decentralized environnement how are you going to make sure nobody is colluding? and if it happens, who can settle a dispute or a claim ?

@MarketingMonk, I believe the situation @Nietzsche26 is speaking about requires 2 factors, both of which must be present in order for collusion to be an effective strategy.

First, the game must have multiple players sitting at the same table and playing from the same single deck of cards (as opposed to "head to head" games). Second, the game must include the opportunity for additional rounds of betting after the ante round.

Texas hold'em is a good example that most people can relate to. If you are playing online at buy-in tables/games of hold'em, most websites allow you to choose your table to "sit down" at and play. Most tables have 6 or 8 players maximum, if I remember correctly.

The way hold'em works, everyone at the table is dealt 2 cards from the deck. Then there is a round of betting. Then 3 cards are dealt face up on the table, then there is another round of betting. Then another card is dealt face up, then another round of betting, and so on. The object is to wager (or bluff) based on your confidence that you have the best poker hand which combines the two cards in your hand with any number of the cards that are face up on the table.

At an 8 person table, the whereabouts of at least 16 cards (2 cards held by each player) would be "known" by the players sitting at the table. Any player who could simultaneously view their own hand and the hand of any of the other players would have a statistical advantage over the rest of the players at the table, because they would know the whereabouts of more cards, and thus be able to better calculate and deduce the odds. There are also ways to "muscle" other players out of the hand by using sophisticated cooperative bluffing strategies.

This obviously cannot be done in live, real world hold'em tournaments, unless you established some sort of elaborate way of signaling with your cheating partners. But it can, and often does happen in online tournaments, where players can hide behind multiple account names and simultaneously play all the accounts at the same table. They can then sucker the "outsiders" who don't realize they are playing at an 8 player table where 2 or more of the "people" are actually the same person with multiple accounts.

Now, while this collusion strategy has worked for cheaters of online Texas hold'em, it would not work in games where there is only the "ante" round of betting. This is because the game would necessarily be "fated" to rely upon whatever hand chance dealt you. While "ante only" games are not really in line with the spirit of Poker, there are plenty of other games that the ante round is the only wager (think beyond card games). Also, this same collusion strategy would not work for two player "head-to-head" games, because if you knew both hands you would just be playing against yourself for your own money.

For most of the initial games on Peerplays, we are implementing a head-to-head, single elimination tournament bracket structure. However, our randomized player matching algorithm is one of the solutions we are working on to greatly eliminate the possibility of collusion in multiplayer buy-in tables for games like Texas hold'em. We will be discussing this more publicly in the months ahead.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 04:22:13 pm by CryptoPrometheus »
"Power and law are not synonymous. In fact, they are often in opposition and irreconcilable."
- Cicero

Offline lil_jay890

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
    • View Profile
@Nietzsche26

I'm interested in how this works in the real world.

So for example:
8 poker players in a game.
2 of them collude.
They agree to lose against each other and then split the profits?

But what if they both lose to any one of the other 6 players?
Or do they collude to increase their odds?
For example they have a 2/8 chance of winning instead of 1/8?

This is assuming all players have an equal skill level.

2 players colluding in an 8 person game gives those players a much higher chance of winning than 2/8.  I would say 1 of the 2 players would win 80% or more of the games they play in.

Offline MarketingMonk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
  • Leading People to Freedom
    • View Profile
    • Cryptoversity - The online school for Bitcoin, cryptocurrencies and blockchains.
  • BitShares: marketing.monk
@Nietzsche26

I'm interested in how this works in the real world.

So for example:
8 poker players in a game.
2 of them collude.
They agree to lose against each other and then split the profits?

But what if they both lose to any one of the other 6 players?
Or do they collude to increase their odds?
For example they have a 2/8 chance of winning instead of 1/8?

This is assuming all players have an equal skill level.

Offline Nietzsche26

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
I am not talking about players exploiting/hacking the structure, game theory have nothing to do with collusion. I am talking about 2 players (or more) exchanging informations in order to gain an edge, or losing deliberatly against each other etc ...
I am a veteran poker player and well aware of the current centralized   approach to this issue; simply police and enforce, casino/gaming platforms have the means to detect and prove any wrongdoing (access to history, machine ids etc) and act as it sees fit to compensate, ban or whatever.
but in a decentralized environnement how are you going to make sure nobody is colluding? and if it happens, who can settle a dispute or a claim ?

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

This seems very interesting but how are you going to adress game integrity issues? I can't find anything about it.
ie: 2 or more players colluding to win a tournament, in a poker cash game format this could be a huge deal also.

We know about issues like this that exist in current centralized systems via various veteran players and enthusiasts who have spent considerable time in ensuring the design bracket structure of the tournament system is fair and provable. The development work we have planned to put into the onchain games once we have the MVP launch is going to be extensive.

This is game changing really (pun intended) :)

So to summarize in response at this point, all I can saw is we have carefully considered that and have taken it into consideration as part of the design. Once the MVP is launched in testnet we will then see what issues may arise.

Not to overuse my pun quota, but a lot of game theory has been built into the Peerplays blockchain... and you will see that as we release more info this week. :) Subscribe to be notified!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | Decentralized Gaming Built with Graphene - Now with BookiePro and Sweeps!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline Nietzsche26

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
This seems very interesting but how are you going to adress game integrity issues? I can't find anything about it.
ie: 2 or more players colluding to win a tournament, in a poker cash game format this could be a huge deal also.

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Great idea, but is there any prototype/demo or  at least some schedule?
OP said there will be a testnet in next week?

No, we never said that. Perhaps confused with another project.

More details on schedules coming this week though.

???

Oh the time to launch the auction is not next week?

Quote
Question three- If the math for question two is correct,  is it safe you're expecting the AGS donation to average around $1.25 Million USD?

A: No, actually much more. By the time we launch the auction, we will actually have a working blockchain testnet and MVP.

OK I see the confusion point now.

This week we are having a crowdsale with set rates as stated in the OP. We are providing details on the design and whitepaper so that everyone can understand the scope of the new blockchain and DAC and how it will roll out.

Following that later in the future we will have that AGS style auction.

That will be some months from now when the testnet and MVP are complete.

Hope that helps clarify.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | Decentralized Gaming Built with Graphene - Now with BookiePro and Sweeps!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
    • View Profile
    • Abit's Hive Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
Great idea, but is there any prototype/demo or  at least some schedule?
OP said there will be a testnet in next week?

No, we never said that. Perhaps confused with another project.

More details on schedules coming this week though.

???

Oh the time to launch the auction is not next week?

Quote
Question three- If the math for question two is correct,  is it safe you're expecting the AGS donation to average around $1.25 Million USD?

A: No, actually much more. By the time we launch the auction, we will actually have a working blockchain testnet and MVP.
BitShares committee member: abit
BitShares witness: in.abit

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

What does Peerplays gets the rake mean? - are token holders part of that?

Sorry missed that last bit.

More detailed information on that is going to be posted soon. To give the short version the rake just means fees. It is a term understood in wagering platform circles. The core token is based on the Fee Backed Asset, which means holders of that token will get a % of the fees. So to answer your question, yes.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | Decentralized Gaming Built with Graphene - Now with BookiePro and Sweeps!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+