Author Topic: The DAO price discussion thread.  (Read 16205 times)

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Offline abit

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This post is not meant to be negative (I do appreciate the efforts of the DEX getaways and bitshares would be useless without them, so thank you very much for the efforts) but I can’t help to notice that there is a big spread and inconsistency between “real” DAO token and OPEN.DAO and TRANS.DAO price.

I assume that this is due to low liquidity and low demand for the DEX assets vs. the real thing.
If you want to attract users I think that Open Ledger and transwiser should provide this liquidity by hedging their positions. At the time of this post the spread between “real” DAO and OPEN.DAO and TRANS.DAO is 25%. This is huge…If one wants to exit DAO via selling OPEN.DAO or TRANS.DAO has to pay this spread, not many users will buy again the Open.xxx ICO or any other ICO tokens by any getaway in the DEX. I would think that since OPEN.DAO and TRANS.DAO are liquid assets of an unliquid currently token they should be sold at premium not at discount…
What do you think?
At least they can exit.. If you hold real DAO you can't exit right now.
If you want to invest DAO at this time, the cheapest way is to buy TRANS.DAO.
Premium or discount, depends on the market, the people got involved.
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Offline mf-tzo

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This post is not meant to be negative (I do appreciate the efforts of the DEX getaways and bitshares would be useless without them, so thank you very much for the efforts) but I can’t help to notice that there is a big spread and inconsistency between “real” DAO token and OPEN.DAO and TRANS.DAO price.

I assume that this is due to low liquidity and low demand for the DEX assets vs. the real thing.
If you want to attract users I think that Open Ledger and transwiser should provide this liquidity by hedging their positions. At the time of this post the spread between “real” DAO and OPEN.DAO and TRANS.DAO is 25%. This is huge…If one wants to exit DAO via selling OPEN.DAO or TRANS.DAO has to pay this spread, not many users will buy again the Open.xxx ICO or any other ICO tokens by any getaway in the DEX. I would think that since OPEN.DAO and TRANS.DAO are liquid assets of an unliquid currently token they should be sold at premium not at discount…
What do you think?

Offline abit

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You aren't invested in new money?  Word has it, the founder is a Vitalik Buterin/Steve Jobs type.  It is the new Apple and IBM of the blockchain.  He's learned that marketing the blockchain failed. The most telling was that guy's reaction when he found out he could sell brownie.pts.  Obviously he sold them, but he wasn't even aware there was a marketplace to sell them !  Epic.

You guys ( lil_jay890, gamey, btswild ) are well overboard with this... this is all part of a trend that I have come to appreciate very much. The trend is called

painfully-honest-project(/self)-naming.

That is to say that  at that very epic moment that you gamey described..it was sealed for solar-and-non-sense... he just named the project after the truth...
 "Solar found new money laying around" and it made so much sen$e... so the  "Solar New Money"


But he is not alone... other brutally-honest-naming examples include:

- OBITs for bitshares....(self explanatory)

-eSTEEM - bm has so much self-esteem, so much so it justified something as ridiculous as issuing 75% of the coins to himself and even adding 9x more coins for each coin someone dared to 'earn'...  full name: "BM's self eSTEEM."

-of course steem was developed in STEALTH of bts holders... I mean while MasterByte supposedly was working on STEALTH....
btw, during the same period, in STEALTH were also sold tens of millions of BTS by the core team...while the poor common bts holders believed something improving bts was being developed...

-and bm has the honesty to call himself reverseflash (you know how one flashes the toilet? The reverse flash is the opposite action) while working in STEALTH to satisfy and fairly pay himself in accordance with his self-eSTEEM.... the bts holders were reversed-flashed more or less.

-Open Ledger is so named of course to make it perfectly clear that their ledger is wide open...open as in open for a new ICO token  of theirs each and every month...
LOL. Tony you're so funny.

#sharebits "tonyk" 1 THUMBSUP
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Offline mint chocolate chip

You aren't invested in new money?  Word has it, the founder is a Vitalik Buterin/Steve Jobs type.  It is the new Apple and IBM of the blockchain.  He's learned that marketing the blockchain failed. The most telling was that guy's reaction when he found out he could sell brownie.pts.  Obviously he sold them, but he wasn't even aware there was a marketplace to sell them !  Epic.

You guys ( lil_jay890, gamey, btswild ) are well overboard with this... this is all part of a trend that I have come to appreciate very much. The trend is called

painfully-honest-project(/self)-naming.

That is to say that  at that very epic moment that you gamey described..it was sealed for solar-and-non-sense... he just named the project after the truth...
 "Solar found new money laying around" and it made so much sen$e... so the  "Solar New Money"


But he is not alone... other brutally-honest-naming examples include:

- OBITs for bitshares....(self explanatory)

-eSTEEM - bm has so much self-esteem, so much so it justified something as ridiculous as issuing 75% of the coins to himself and even adding 9x more coins for each coin someone dared to 'earn'...  full name: "BM's self eSTEEM."

-of course steem was developed in STEALTH of bts holders... I mean while MasterByte supposedly was working on STEALTH....
btw, during the same period, in STEALTH were also sold tens of millions of BTS by the core team...while the poor common bts holders believed something improving bts was being developed...

-and bm has the honesty to call himself reverseflash (you know how one flashes the toilet? The reverse flash is the opposite action) while working in STEALTH to satisfy and fairly pay himself in accordance with his self-eSTEEM.... the bts holders were reversed-flashed more or less.

-Open Ledger is so named of course to make it perfectly clear that their ledger is wide open...open as in open for a new ICO token  of theirs each and every month...

Conveniently not having a stakeholder VOTE on whether DaNS friend should be given 30 million bitshares and whether we should approve the merger.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 03:23:49 am by mint chocolate chip »

Offline lil_jay890

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There are a lot of "projects" coming out of the woodwork now that people have seen how easily crypto investors part with their cash.

Most seem borderline scammy and there is no recourse for investors if the projects go belly up or if the founders leave with the cash.  Maybe you have some hope if you are in the us, but if your investing in something foreign you have virtually zero share holder rights.

The larimers have shown how easy it is to keep selling different crypto investments.  They have assumed they have zero binding to their early investors, who they describe as donators.  You're only good to them if your buying into their latest projects.  I'm not sure how much longer they will be able to do this before people get wise or regulatory authorities take a closer look at what is going on.

bitshares is the only project that has broken free of centralized control of preminers/founders.  Unfortunately it is the perfect tool for scammers to separate a fool and his money.

And please no one give me the "can't fault them for trying to put food on the table" argument.  Fact is they are taking your food off of your plate.  How long people will keep starving themselves to fund pie in the sky pipe dreams remains to be seen.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 03:12:03 am by lil_jay890 »

Offline giant middle finger

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why are you still here?!

Offline tonyk

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You aren't invested in new money?  Word has it, the founder is a Vitalik Buterin/Steve Jobs type.  It is the new Apple and IBM of the blockchain.  He's learned that marketing the blockchain failed. The most telling was that guy's reaction when he found out he could sell brownie.pts.  Obviously he sold them, but he wasn't even aware there was a marketplace to sell them !  Epic.

You guys ( lil_jay890, gamey, btswild ) are well overboard with this... this is all part of a trend that I have come to appreciate very much. The trend is called

painfully-honest-project(/self)-naming.

That is to say that  at that very epic moment that you gamey described..it was sealed for solar-and-non-sense... he just named the project after the truth...
 "Solar found new money laying around" and it made so much sen$e... so the  "Solar New Money"


But he is not alone... other brutally-honest-naming examples include:

- OBITs for bitshares....(self explanatory)

-eSTEEM - bm has so much self-esteem, so much so it justified something as ridiculous as issuing 75% of the coins to himself and even adding 9x more coins for each coin someone dared to 'earn'...  full name: "BM's self eSTEEM."

-of course steem was developed in STEALTH of bts holders... I mean while MasterByte supposedly was working on STEALTH....
btw, during the same period, in STEALTH were also sold tens of millions of BTS by the core team...while the poor common bts holders believed something improving bts was being developed...

-and bm has the honesty to call himself reverseflash (you know how one flashes the toilet? The reverse flash is the opposite action) while working in STEALTH to satisfy and fairly pay himself in accordance with his self-eSTEEM.... the bts holders were reversed-flashed more or less.

-Open Ledger is so named of course to make it perfectly clear that their ledger is wide open...open as in open for a new ICO token  of theirs each and every month...
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline lil_jay890

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https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doa

Bytemaster wrote a great article on this over on steemit.

(I'm 100% against the blanket poaching of BitShares forum users to the subforums of a vaguely related project. However.. that article above is a good read.)

I saw a great article on PTS/AGS before written by a Bitcoiner .
I wish I had believed it .  :P :P

however , if you think about it , everybody can write something on why something can not come true , especially in the crypto world .
you're bound to become a good predictor if you bash enough projects .

Yea it is kinda funny...  BitShares was likely hurt by Dan's bashing of Ethereum, so he continues on with The DOA.  "Dead on Arrival!" .. clever.. but not really.  He'll get all the people new to ETH or those not paying attention also against Steemit.

Quote
I do think some bashing is needed to properly analyze the validity of some non-sense BitShares based tokens like xxxx-non-sense-new-money ......
You aren't invested in new money?  Word has it, the founder is a Vitalik Buterin/Steve Jobs type.  It is the new Apple and IBM of the blockchain.  He's learned that marketing the blockchain failed. The most telling was that guy's reaction when he found out he could sell brownie.pts.  Obviously he sold them, but he wasn't even aware there was a marketplace to sell them !  Epic.

And don't forget his product is a new currency that he so humbly named after himself... and he says you shouldn't invest in it if you think the Us dollar will still be around in a few years.  This has winner written all over it!

Where do I sign up??

Offline gamey

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https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doa

Bytemaster wrote a great article on this over on steemit.

(I'm 100% against the blanket poaching of BitShares forum users to the subforums of a vaguely related project. However.. that article above is a good read.)

I saw a great article on PTS/AGS before written by a Bitcoiner .
I wish I had believed it .  :P :P

however , if you think about it , everybody can write something on why something can not come true , especially in the crypto world .
you're bound to become a good predictor if you bash enough projects .

Yea it is kinda funny...  BitShares was likely hurt by Dan's bashing of Ethereum, so he continues on with The DOA.  "Dead on Arrival!" .. clever.. but not really.  He'll get all the people new to ETH or those not paying attention also against Steemit.

Quote
I do think some bashing is needed to properly analyze the validity of some non-sense BitShares based tokens like xxxx-non-sense-new-money ......
You aren't invested in new money?  Word has it, the founder is a Vitalik Buterin/Steve Jobs type.  It is the new Apple and IBM of the blockchain.  He's learned that marketing the blockchain failed. The most telling was that guy's reaction when he found out he could sell brownie.pts.  Obviously he sold them, but he wasn't even aware there was a marketplace to sell them !  Epic.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline btswildpig

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I do think some bashing is needed to properly analyze the validity of some non-sense BitShares based tokens like xxxx-non-sense-new-money ......
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 08:40:15 am by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline btswildpig

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https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doa

Bytemaster wrote a great article on this over on steemit.

(I'm 100% against the blanket poaching of BitShares forum users to the subforums of a vaguely related project. However.. that article above is a good read.)

I saw a great article on PTS/AGS before written by a Bitcoiner .
I wish I had believed it .  :P :P

however , if you think about it , everybody can write something on why something can not come true , especially in the crypto world .
you're bound to become a good predictor if you bash enough projects .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline gamey

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https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doa

Bytemaster wrote a great article on this over on steemit.

(I'm 100% against the blanket poaching of BitShares forum users to the subforums of a vaguely related project. However.. that article above is a good read.)
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline gamey

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i think i'll pass .
I have much nightmare about putting my money on programmers and let them spend it to invest on something they thought was cool .   :P :P :P

AGS/PTS/JL777 .......

Your mistake is correlating negative issues with people being 'programmers'.  From what I can tell Chinese education system doesn't produce many programmers so I am not sure what to think but it explains the problems.

IMO your problem is you chose the wrong people. It has nothing to do with them being programmers. Bill Gates was a hardcore programmer... As were a ton of founders.

One needs to always judge their mistakes appropriately.

And I'm not sure how I should response to your question about China ....because nowadays the saying is , "Even if you throw a stone in the street randomly  , you'll hit a programmer " .

Just , most programmer with great skills don't speak English well (nor that they have much time to do so ) . So it's not common for you to encounter many Chinese programmers on line .

I wish the word "China" could be used to expain everything ..... but it doesn't really , aside from sometime glith in the networking environment .

This is interesting.  Sorry I was annoyed last night and was overly rude.  I got home and was reading this stuff all drunky and see people making comparisons to Bytemaster/Bitshares and blaming rpogrammers.

 That does explain a lot of things though, that most programmers in China don't know English.  That explains a lot.  From my perspective, I see China as this big anti-dillution movement that has killed a lot of progress in BTS.  Then I never see programmers step up and want to do the work at whatever price makes Chinese happy. I know alt and abit, but no one making proposals etc.  Honestly, I think this self-funding system has too many problems to fit in with a normal development process. Oh well, I still root for BTS, I wasted too much of my life on it to not.

Back on topic about The DAO. I need to make a decision. I've decided that investing in projects early is probably a better approach than trying trading.  Trading only works for me if there is a information asymmetry which I can use.
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Offline Shentist

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i think i'll pass .
I have much nightmare about putting my money on programmers and let them spend it to invest on something they thought was cool .   :P :P :P

AGS/PTS/JL777 .......

i think your understanding of the DAO is not clear.
at the moment the DAO is in creation phase and after the creation is done, anyone can make a proposal and get funded. this will be probably done first
from slock.it, because they are the creators of the smartcontracts the DAO is using.

if you want your ETH back you can everytime split and your ETH is returned to you, so it much less risk then with AGS, JL777, ETH or any other crypto project so far.

Hmm......So that means DAO's token price will certainly higher than or equals the marketcap of the Ether it holds ? 
And as long as we assume Ether can not go lower ...... investing in DAO will have no chance of losing money but winning as long as not much money are spent in the fund ?

Sounds like too good .......If that's the case , it explains why people who were not selling their Ether in the first place is now investing crazy in DAO ......because they can purely bet on the token price of DAO before significant money spent from the fund without any risk ?

It just sounds too good .

as far as i know you can only split form the DAO if a vote is done and you do not vote. if you vote yes or no you will hold your DAO and got the rewards from the proposal. personally i think this will be a upgraded and better version of our worker proposals.

in short you are still in control of your ETH as long as they are not spend. in my eyes this is really the first DAO ever published. now over 13.000 accounts pooled 94 million USD and the creationphase is running for 14 days.

Offline btswildpig

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i think i'll pass .
I have much nightmare about putting my money on programmers and let them spend it to invest on something they thought was cool .   :P :P :P

AGS/PTS/JL777 .......

i think your understanding of the DAO is not clear.
at the moment the DAO is in creation phase and after the creation is done, anyone can make a proposal and get funded. this will be probably done first
from slock.it, because they are the creators of the smartcontracts the DAO is using.

if you want your ETH back you can everytime split and your ETH is returned to you, so it much less risk then with AGS, JL777, ETH or any other crypto project so far.

Hmm......So that means DAO's token price will certainly higher than or equals the marketcap of the Ether it holds ? 
And as long as we assume Ether can not go lower ...... investing in DAO will have no chance of losing money but winning as long as not much money are spent in the fund ?

Sounds like too good .......If that's the case , it explains why people who were not selling their Ether in the first place is now investing crazy in DAO ......because they can purely bet on the token price of DAO before significant money spent from the fund without any risk ?

It just sounds too good .
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 08:29:49 am by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.