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Quote from: BunkerChain Labs on July 11, 2016, 02:17:09 amQuote from: bitcrab on July 10, 2016, 05:30:13 amQuote from: BunkerChain Labs on July 10, 2016, 02:08:08 amQuote from: bitcrab on July 09, 2016, 12:06:05 pmQuote from: Akado on July 06, 2016, 11:09:08 amQuote from: prebuffo on July 05, 2016, 03:01:51 pmHallo, again could you give us some feedback? Does this new settlement fee improve liquidity and interest in CNY?@bitcrabbefore this change the supply of bitCNY is less than 800K, now it is 1100K and keep on increasing... going ahead, bitCNY will be used as trade base in many markets.Can you describe how the change has contributed to this? We need more details to know this isn't just regular market movement.in my view the logic is simple, because the change changed the expectation of the players, especially the shorters.actually bitCNY can be used in many cases - to buy other assets in DEX, to deposit to btc38 just as fiat CNY, to just withdraw from transwiser - so there is always demand for BTS holders to short out bitCNY , but they always worry about being force settled, this worry prevent them from shorting.now the 1% offset reduced the worry greatly and shorters have more incentive to short.is it just regular market movement? I don't think so, in the weeks before and after the change, there's no other big change in BTS ecosystem that can make bitCNY supply increase at close to 50%, and we can see that bitUSD supply has no obvious change in the same period.So there are few things here. You are saying that because of market support there is a reason for shorters to be creating bitCNY. Following that you then said that the 1% offset reduced the worry of shorters.So can you explain what the worry was that shorters had if there was already the market support as you described for bitCNY?That's really not what he said. What he said was that people wanted to short bitCNY but were concerned about being forced settled. He also said the increase in bitCNY supply since adjusting the offset was not due to market movement considering bitUSD did not experience the same increase in supply during the same period. I think he makes a compelling case, and perhaps we should consider the same adjustment for bitUSD (or even all BitAssets).
Quote from: bitcrab on July 10, 2016, 05:30:13 amQuote from: BunkerChain Labs on July 10, 2016, 02:08:08 amQuote from: bitcrab on July 09, 2016, 12:06:05 pmQuote from: Akado on July 06, 2016, 11:09:08 amQuote from: prebuffo on July 05, 2016, 03:01:51 pmHallo, again could you give us some feedback? Does this new settlement fee improve liquidity and interest in CNY?@bitcrabbefore this change the supply of bitCNY is less than 800K, now it is 1100K and keep on increasing... going ahead, bitCNY will be used as trade base in many markets.Can you describe how the change has contributed to this? We need more details to know this isn't just regular market movement.in my view the logic is simple, because the change changed the expectation of the players, especially the shorters.actually bitCNY can be used in many cases - to buy other assets in DEX, to deposit to btc38 just as fiat CNY, to just withdraw from transwiser - so there is always demand for BTS holders to short out bitCNY , but they always worry about being force settled, this worry prevent them from shorting.now the 1% offset reduced the worry greatly and shorters have more incentive to short.is it just regular market movement? I don't think so, in the weeks before and after the change, there's no other big change in BTS ecosystem that can make bitCNY supply increase at close to 50%, and we can see that bitUSD supply has no obvious change in the same period.So there are few things here. You are saying that because of market support there is a reason for shorters to be creating bitCNY. Following that you then said that the 1% offset reduced the worry of shorters.So can you explain what the worry was that shorters had if there was already the market support as you described for bitCNY?
Quote from: BunkerChain Labs on July 10, 2016, 02:08:08 amQuote from: bitcrab on July 09, 2016, 12:06:05 pmQuote from: Akado on July 06, 2016, 11:09:08 amQuote from: prebuffo on July 05, 2016, 03:01:51 pmHallo, again could you give us some feedback? Does this new settlement fee improve liquidity and interest in CNY?@bitcrabbefore this change the supply of bitCNY is less than 800K, now it is 1100K and keep on increasing... going ahead, bitCNY will be used as trade base in many markets.Can you describe how the change has contributed to this? We need more details to know this isn't just regular market movement.in my view the logic is simple, because the change changed the expectation of the players, especially the shorters.actually bitCNY can be used in many cases - to buy other assets in DEX, to deposit to btc38 just as fiat CNY, to just withdraw from transwiser - so there is always demand for BTS holders to short out bitCNY , but they always worry about being force settled, this worry prevent them from shorting.now the 1% offset reduced the worry greatly and shorters have more incentive to short.is it just regular market movement? I don't think so, in the weeks before and after the change, there's no other big change in BTS ecosystem that can make bitCNY supply increase at close to 50%, and we can see that bitUSD supply has no obvious change in the same period.
Quote from: bitcrab on July 09, 2016, 12:06:05 pmQuote from: Akado on July 06, 2016, 11:09:08 amQuote from: prebuffo on July 05, 2016, 03:01:51 pmHallo, again could you give us some feedback? Does this new settlement fee improve liquidity and interest in CNY?@bitcrabbefore this change the supply of bitCNY is less than 800K, now it is 1100K and keep on increasing... going ahead, bitCNY will be used as trade base in many markets.Can you describe how the change has contributed to this? We need more details to know this isn't just regular market movement.
Quote from: Akado on July 06, 2016, 11:09:08 amQuote from: prebuffo on July 05, 2016, 03:01:51 pmHallo, again could you give us some feedback? Does this new settlement fee improve liquidity and interest in CNY?@bitcrabbefore this change the supply of bitCNY is less than 800K, now it is 1100K and keep on increasing... going ahead, bitCNY will be used as trade base in many markets.
Quote from: prebuffo on July 05, 2016, 03:01:51 pmHallo, again could you give us some feedback? Does this new settlement fee improve liquidity and interest in CNY?@bitcrab
Hallo, again could you give us some feedback? Does this new settlement fee improve liquidity and interest in CNY?
last days bitcny was making huge volume in poloniex n good volume in dex...congratulations, clearly something improved.
Given your numbers, you are actually correct:settlement price 0.032644 CNY per BTS .. that means one BTS costs you 0.032644 CNY .. that means for 1 CNY, you get 30.63350 BTSactual price feed 0.033 CNY per BTS .. that means on BTS costs you 0.033 CNY .. that means for 1 CNY, you get 30.303but where exactly did you get them? The cli-wallet only knows what is denoted as "settlement_price" ..[/quotehttps://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/BTS_CNY
if you want to settle, you HAVE bitCNY .. and you want to settle FOR BTS. So as the long that wants to settle, you get LESS BTS .. that looks totally fine for me
Quote from: 天籁 on June 29, 2016, 07:08:59 amQuote from: xeroc on June 29, 2016, 07:00:21 amQuote from: 天籁 on June 29, 2016, 04:30:42 amWhy the 99% settlement rule become 101% settlement in fact?Have you tried to settle and received more than you expected?MY deposited bts was just settled at the feed price 0.033,settle price 0.032644 CNY/bts: block #7403434it's difficult to tell if there is something wrong because of the price movements currently .. please distinguish between "settlement price" and "price feed" .. one of both has the 1% offset, the other has not ..I think the GUI shows the settlement price and not the actual price feed ..
Quote from: xeroc on June 29, 2016, 07:00:21 amQuote from: 天籁 on June 29, 2016, 04:30:42 amWhy the 99% settlement rule become 101% settlement in fact?Have you tried to settle and received more than you expected?MY deposited bts was just settled at the feed price 0.033,settle price 0.032644 CNY/bts: block #7403434
Quote from: 天籁 on June 29, 2016, 04:30:42 amWhy the 99% settlement rule become 101% settlement in fact?Have you tried to settle and received more than you expected?
Why the 99% settlement rule become 101% settlement in fact?
You own the network, but who pays for development?
The recent events on ETH/TheDAO bear a lot of parallels with the proposal discussed here. Of course when I wrote https://steemit.com/bitshares/@cyrano.witness/before-entering-into-a-smart-contract--read-the-fine-print I didn't dream of someone screwing the DAO. However, that's what happened: someone read the "fine print" of the DAO contract, and used it to his advantage.Today, I read this comment from @cube, which got me thinking:QuoteYes, "the intent of the parties" is the key.I agree. Whenever a disagreement about the interpretation of a contract is brought before a court, the court will take a step back and try to find out what the original intent of the parties was when the contract was set up. The precise wording of the contract is relevant only insofar as it sheds some light on that question - which is usually the case, but the truth is bigger than the wording of a contract.I think in our case here, the intent is quite clear:QuoteSmartCoins are guaranteed to be worth at least their face value- https://bitshares.org/technology/price-stable-cryptocurrencies/Even some newer documentation that postdates BSIP-0016, like EstefanTT's writeup or Chronos' first video states that bitassets can be redeemed for their equivalent value in BTS. Which will no longer be true after BSIP-0016 has been accepted. The 1:1 settlement guarantee is the big print, and IMO that's clearly the intent of our BitAssets smart contract.@cube @datasecuritynode @clayop @Harvey @abit @ebit @bitcrab - please reconsider your vote on 1.10.286.Thanks.
Yes, "the intent of the parties" is the key.
SmartCoins are guaranteed to be worth at least their face value- https://bitshares.org/technology/price-stable-cryptocurrencies/
After extensive debate about BSIP 0016, it is now scheduled to go into effect on June 21. Some have argued that this breaches the implicit contract that smart coins are convertible to 100% of their BTS value. In this post, I argue that this change does not breach the contract.The question comes down to this: what is the contract around BitCNY? I believe it is a social contract: a contract for stable value. This is why Bytemaster designed the forced-settlement parameter to be adjustable by the committee. It could have been hard-coded, which would be a technical contract for 100% BTS convertibility, but I think that would leave SmartCoin pegs more brittle, subject to greater volatility.If the peg breaks out to the upside, the forced-settlement parameter can be lowered, to incentivize traders to bring it back down. If the price pushes below the peg, the parameter can be brought up to 100% to instantly correct it.It should be noted that, similar to how other markets work, sometimes the expectation and potential of these changes is enough to affect the market. For example, traders are more likely to sell their BitCNY at 105% of the price feed, instead of letting the price creep even higher, when they know that the committee will step in to bring the peg back to sanity in the case of a runaway peg.If the SmartCoin peg were a technical contract for 100% convertibility, it would have been designed as such, without making parameters changeable by committee. Instead, the committee does have this power, making it a social contract to track a price feed. This social contract will be maintained by BSIP 0016.
Like i said before im not tech or economics...n now. I just hope everything goes well for bitcny one of best smartcoins performers....I dont see anything wrong with that if you consider that our product is slowly growing....n changes can affect confidence....but lets hope it is for the best n that bitcny n smartcoins can shine
Although probably stake holders agree with those at that time, stake holders may have changed, or their opinions have changed. That's the game. Worker voting has spoken.
Quote from: abit on May 29, 2016, 03:14:05 pmSo the "bonus" fund would come from a worker? Current supply is about 600K CNY, so 1% would be 6K CNY, equivalent to ~240K BTS at current rate.A possibility to game this, is to short & hold some CNY before the change, after got free bonus, close the position. It's hard to distinguish self-shorters because they can transfer CNY to other accounts.IMO the bonus would have to be paid by those who profit from the change, i. e. the shorters. That would also handle the problem of self-shorters.Obviously this would be even more tricky to handle, because it requires cooperation from all shorters.
So the "bonus" fund would come from a worker? Current supply is about 600K CNY, so 1% would be 6K CNY, equivalent to ~240K BTS at current rate.A possibility to game this, is to short & hold some CNY before the change, after got free bonus, close the position. It's hard to distinguish self-shorters because they can transfer CNY to other accounts.
In the hangout yesterday, bytemaster hinted at a way to perform the proposed change without harming current holders of bitCNY. Basically, the idea would be to pay out a 1% bonus for bitCNY holders at the time the proposal takes effect. I think it might be possible, but it's not clear to me how pending orders on the DEX would have to be treated.I suggest we postpone the current proposal until we have worked out a way to perform the desired changes without harming anyone.
@bitcrab is going about this the proper way. I am impressed and pleased by his patience and professional behavior.He created a worker, which is not free, and it received over 250M votes over a period of weeks. This is enough votes to replace half the committee with his own supporters, but instead he has allowed the committee to remain and vote as they see fit.He then created the committee proposal, set to expire June 21. I think it's likely that @bitcrab he could have easily enacted this by June 1, but again, he provided another 3 weeks for discussion. We should appreciate his patience in this matter.
@Chronos: voting against it is equivalent to voting for every other worker execpt this on ..
http://cryptofresh.com/p/1.10.286Is that accurate? 1 hour review period?!
Review Period: Mon Jun 20, 2016 23:00 - Tue Jun 21, 2016 00:00
approve_proposal you "1.10.286" {"active_approvals_to_add": ["you"]} true
Quote from: Chronos on May 25, 2016, 03:06:52 pm@bitcrab is going about this the proper way. I am impressed and pleased by his patience and professional behavior.He created a worker, which is not free, and it received over 250M votes over a period of weeks. This is enough votes to replace half the committee with his own supporters, but instead he has allowed the committee to remain and vote as they see fit.He then created the committee proposal, set to expire June 21. I think it's likely that @bitcrab he could have easily enacted this by June 1, but again, he provided another 3 weeks for discussion. We should appreciate his patience in this matter.Agreed!
Quote from: Chronos on May 25, 2016, 03:06:52 pmbut instead he has allowed the committee to remain and vote as they see fit.How generous of him!Interesting way to look at what is supposed to be decentralized self-governance...
but instead he has allowed the committee to remain and vote as they see fit.
Quote from: bitcrab on May 25, 2016, 03:40:56 amif you are bitCNY holder or shorter, or if this change is important to you for any reason, please pay necessary attention to the status of the voting and take according action while necessary.Ironically, bitCNY holders who will be robbed of 1% of their holdings by the proposal cannot vote.Quote from: bitcrab on May 25, 2016, 03:40:56 amworker proposal 1.14.39: http://cryptofresh.com/workersWhy the worker?
if you are bitCNY holder or shorter, or if this change is important to you for any reason, please pay necessary attention to the status of the voting and take according action while necessary.
worker proposal 1.14.39: http://cryptofresh.com/workers