Author Topic: Merger of STEEM and BTS  (Read 8139 times)

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Offline BTSdac

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merge ,it is an old story .   
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BTS2.0 API :ws://139.196.37.179:8091
BTS2.0 API 数据源ws://139.196.37.179:8091

Offline gamey

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This discussion on Steemit would have been worth $1500 by now.

I sometimes read STEEM in STEALTH mode.

Too bad they didn't sharedrop. shrug. Honestly, if I sign up for it, it will be 100% lock to fail. That is a near proven law. Is that really what you want?

I wish I was kidding.
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Offline donkeypong

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This discussion on Steemit would have been worth $1500 by now.

Offline gamey

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For the record, steemit currently uses the same ranking algorithm as Reddit.  Rich whales do not dictate what you see.  Just who gets paid. 


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THank you for the clarification.  Although I'm sure you guys are sick of me, it is never my intention to spread bad information.

That is far far more reasonable. Not sure where I got the wrong thing in my head.

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Offline thereverseflash

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For the record, steemit currently uses the same ranking algorithm as Reddit.  Rich whales do not dictate what you see.  Just who gets paid. 


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Offline gamey

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Yes Reddit historically hasn't had more advertising and censorship due to fear of negative user reaction.

A well known case study was apparently Digg, a Reddit predecessor which went from a $200 million valuation in 2008 to being sold in 2012 for $500 000 after a negative reaction to an advertiser friendly redesign and censorship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg

Quote
Protesting at the removal of the upcoming news page, the default setting of "My News", deleted favourites, the apparent front page domination of a handful of publishers, and the removal of the "bury" button (for voting down stories), Digg users flooded the front page with links to rival aggregators and pleaded with chief executive Kevin Rose to turn back the clock.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/pda/2010/aug/31/digg-redesign-revolt

Since 2015 Reddit has introduced a lot more censorship to make their site more advertiser friendly, more prominent advertising and a much larger advertising team but this has resulted in negative reactions that have driven traffic to competitors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voat

Quote
In February, 2015, following accusations of censorship on Reddit, a surge of Reddit users created accounts on Voat.[18]
In early June, 2015, after Reddit banned five of its subreddits for harassment—the largest of which had around 150,000 subscribers[19][20]—many users of Reddit began to create accounts on Voat.[21] The influx of new participants temporarily overloaded the site, causing downtime.

Even with recent changes I think Reddit are only projected to make $20 million in revenue in 2016 and may still be in the red and given that the highest valuation they've raised funds at is $500 million it's hard to justify Steem's $30 million valuation imo especially as they have a no/low revenue model and have additional costs of paying content curators, creators and sometimes voters. Plus they're also paying to acquire users at the moment. So I personally think their users might have a low/no/even negative value in terms of how serious investors will value them. 

There's a similar product based on Ethereum coming soon which I haven't looked into much...

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/censorship-free-social-network-akasha-aims-to-tackle-internet-censorship-with-blockchain-technology-1464810249

Quote
the project gradually evolved into something more interconnected and social that could be compared to a decentralized Medium or Reddit.

They plan for users to earn ETH from content creation. http://akasha.world/

Quote
Moreover, the votes are bundled with ETH micro transactions so if your content is good you’ll make ETH from it – in a way, mining with your mind.

I have a feeling being based on ETH and being launched in a more transparent and crypto-currency community perceived fair way they've definitely got a good shot at gaining some initial traction & I'll be interested in looking at the business model regards how revenue for content creators etc. is created.

I remember Digg. I was one of the user's they lost. Aggregators are probably the most harmful addictions I've ever had in my life.Aggregators have been a consumer of far too much time that has been lost learning things of questionable value. I no longer remember the specifics of what Digg changed, but the new site lost me too. Thats a problem, aggregator sites have no _real_ community. Even sites that have a real community can have huge shifts in usage when the owner does something widely despised. Still, I would have expected Reddit to have a bit more ads.  Oh yea they do have the sponsored item at the top. Thats all I remember. VC money is a wonderful thing. I'm not sure how their expenses are so high ...

It makes sense that Reddit is treading carefully. It is also kinda funny that they can't make any money.  In a way that makes me happy. If one site is going to be so dominant, lets at least force them to give us an A+ user experience and not a bunch of dodgy ads.

I think an ETH based solution will have much more appeal but they're going to be screwed if they pay for storing content on the ETH blockchain. There needs to be a FACTOM style service for ETH that is closely integrated to ETH, but even that likely wouldn't scale. IMO Steemit is low-hanging yet poorly chosen fruit for a blockchain.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 04:14:17 am by gamey »
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Offline Empirical1.2

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STEEM is a Reddit-esque social media platform. What is Reddit's problem?

http://www.recode.net/2014/3/3/11624114/still-in-the-red-reddit-to-donate-one-tenth-of-ad-revenue-to-charity

Reddit's problem is that even with a massive userbase their costs are too high and their revenues are too low.
After ten years Reddit is still a loss making business model despite being the 14th most visited site in the US & 36th in the world in 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit

Quote
As of 2015, Reddit had 542 million monthly visitors (234 million unique users), ranking 14th most visited web-site in US and 36th in the world.[6] Across 2015, Reddit saw 82.54 billion pageviews, 73.15 million submissions, 725.85 million comments, and 6.89 billion upvotes from its users.[7]

So for STEEM to be an improvement on a Reddit-esque  platform they would have to find a way to drastically increase the revenue and/or reduce the costs of that business model. STEEM have done the opposite...

Quote
Reddit hypothesized that its platform would be improved if everyone who contributed to reddit.com by posting stories, adding comments or voting were rewarded with a fair share in Reddit, Inc1. Steem aims to support social media and online communities by returning much of its value to the people who provide valuable contributions

By paying users for popular content and even for comments/voting they've drastically increased the costs of that business model. Reddit earned <$10 million in 2014, which wasn't even enough to cover expenses. (Crunch some numbers using the wiki to see why it's not worthwhile paying for content on this type of platform and/or how much you'd have to increase revenue by to justify it.)

STEEM also reduces potential revenue per user as their initial user-base will be even less likely to give up personal info, allow targeted advertising or the censoring of board content to make it more advertiser friendly & I won't even go into the differences in the PR approaches.

In practical terms this means STEEM's burn rate (monthly expenses) will presumably be extremely high (paying to acquire users and for their content) but it will achieve no/low revenue and no meaningful longer term valuation from serious investors because the potential value per user, is if anything likely negative, so it will likely run into financial issues very rapidly. 

(It also deliberately went against all the crypto-currency community's cultural regulations, which is fine, but means as a result it's unlikely to be popular/adopted as a crypto-currency in it's own right.)

This is just a personal opinon, feel free to disagree and or make counter arguments especially those more familiar with the business model and future plans but I don't see a Steem merger being an issue as I don't see it being around for long.

(Other than keeping an inflated value for long enough to justify a high percentage stake in some sort of merger I can't see the point.)

I wonder why Reddit doesn't have more advertising. Are they afraid of a negative reaction? That place has almost no ads. I guess maybe there are some in the far right column ? 

In general though Steem should be able to run far cheaper than reddit. Although if it scaled up who knows, but it will never have administrative/management staff overhead.  Only the cost of machines.

I just can't see the 'get paid to post' working in the longrun or being sustainable. Also, having large stakeholders be able to up/downvote will be distasteful to a lot of people.

Then there are all the other games being played with vesting and so on so it'll "go to the moon".

Yes Reddit historically hasn't had more advertising and censorship due to fear of negative user reaction.

A well known case study was apparently Digg, a Reddit predecessor which went from a $200 million valuation in 2008 to being sold in 2012 for $500 000 after a negative reaction to an advertiser friendly redesign and censorship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg

Quote
Protesting at the removal of the upcoming news page, the default setting of "My News", deleted favourites, the apparent front page domination of a handful of publishers, and the removal of the "bury" button (for voting down stories), Digg users flooded the front page with links to rival aggregators and pleaded with chief executive Kevin Rose to turn back the clock.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/pda/2010/aug/31/digg-redesign-revolt

Since 2015 Reddit has introduced a lot more censorship to make their site more advertiser friendly, more prominent advertising and a much larger advertising team but this has resulted in negative reactions that have driven traffic to competitors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voat

Quote
In February, 2015, following accusations of censorship on Reddit, a surge of Reddit users created accounts on Voat.[18]
In early June, 2015, after Reddit banned five of its subreddits for harassment—the largest of which had around 150,000 subscribers[19][20]—many users of Reddit began to create accounts on Voat.[21] The influx of new participants temporarily overloaded the site, causing downtime.

Even with recent changes I think Reddit are only projected to make $20 million in revenue in 2016 and may still be in the red and given that the highest valuation they've raised funds at is $500 million it's hard to justify Steem's $30 million valuation imo especially as they have a no/low revenue model and have additional costs of paying content curators, creators and sometimes voters. Plus they're also paying to acquire users at the moment. So I personally think their users might have a low/no/even negative value in terms of how serious investors will value them. 

There's a similar product based on Ethereum coming soon which I haven't looked into much...

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/censorship-free-social-network-akasha-aims-to-tackle-internet-censorship-with-blockchain-technology-1464810249

Quote
the project gradually evolved into something more interconnected and social that could be compared to a decentralized Medium or Reddit.

They plan for users to earn ETH from content creation. http://akasha.world/

Quote
Moreover, the votes are bundled with ETH micro transactions so if your content is good you’ll make ETH from it – in a way, mining with your mind.

I have a feeling being based on ETH and being launched in a more transparent and crypto-currency community perceived fair way they've definitely got a good shot at gaining some initial traction & I'll be interested in looking at the business model regards how revenue for content creators etc. is created.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 01:21:02 am by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline gamey

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You are right. you don't want to take their STEEM, we just make their STEEM worthless to them by destroying its utility (prompting them to dump it).  Terrific social/economic incentive (they will never see the endgame approaching in an expanding economy)(suckers!).  So let's have a poll to agree on the the maximum amount of STEEM that can be used for voting.

And while we are at it, let's all discuss exactly how much value in personal property that people should be allowed to use (they can own whatever they want)

https://generationopportunity.org/articles/2016/05/17/venezuelan-president-to-punish-private-businesses-for-his-disastrous-economic-policies/

You're right, the marketing pitch for slavery will only be successful if we use doublespeak rhetoric (just don't refer to them as controls or restrictions, but rather "freedom guarantees" or "free speech zones")


"Liberty Mandates!" - bend over and get your Liberty
 
You should post this to STEEM, I'm sure that the wales will give you money for such progressive ideas.


(don't worry, Maduro is just being jokingly sarcastic)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-34929332


Once we agree on how much STEEM we should steal from the rich, then everyone will suddenly leave Reddit in a mass Exodus and flock to STEEM to post about Bernie Sanders

You dropped this.   -->   /s

Uhhhm, it has nothing to do with those economics.  It has all to do with longterm adoption though. When a post's value is stake weighted, then those without any stake will not find any real value in reading there over Reddit except if being paid. It will be a huge turn off to lots (it is for me). If you want your reading controlled by whomever invested in the DAC then thats cool, but I am pretty sure most people will disagree with your stance.  You however live in some weird bubble where your values are purely ideological and no basis in reality. That is also cool, SATAN.

Just to try and explain it a bit further since your eyes get full of STEEM and you can't read straight.  I am not arguing about taking anyone's property. Nor do I think the allocation of STEEM is unfair in any way what so ever. All I am doing is pointing out that most people prefer to have their reading selected by a 1:1 democracy or at least like-minded people. STEEMIT will have neither and this will hurt long term adoption if I understand it correctly.

I already brought this up once in my reference on Monarchy to try to make a point, so I'll continue with that.  You're the kind of fool who would gleefully bow down before the King and his knights, because anything else would be property confiscation.  You would live your life as a noble serf though. Full of liberty to own property, just no way in hell of ever acquiring it. <thumbs up> winning!

I honestly don't care that much.  I don't go around posting in STEEMIT threads on bitcointalk. I do post on here though and that sentence was but one small statement of my opinion. 
I speak for myself and only myself.

chryspano

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Bytemaster should sharedrop some of his Steem.........onto Brownie.PTS. :P

No sharedrop AFAIK, but he said that at some point he will use some of his steem to buy back some of the brownie.pts

Offline Ander

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Bytemaster should sharedrop some of his Steem.........onto Brownie.PTS. :P
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Offline gamey

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gamey is right, restristricting the ability of large shareholders to vote should be our number one priority right now

and I am not just talking about Steemit whales

Rich people should have their property confiscated so that they have less influence on the voting public and then the world becomes fair again (finally).

 Lets have a vote to find the cutoff point for this property confiscation initiative

Once we agree on how much STEEM we should steal from the rich, then everyone will suddenly leave Reddit in a mass Exodus and flock to STEEM to post about Bernie Sanders

I said nothing of the sort but I do believe that a healthy capitalistic society has to have something to keep it healthy and not a third-world type country (lots of wealth owned by very few) or old school Monarchy. I don't believe that people who inherit money deserve it to near the extent that people who earn it through endeavors. Outside of that, I have no particular beliefs.

Regardless, this example is more about controlling what is read. It is like state-owned media. It is great for those who own the media, but ends up just screwing over everyone else. In America, you can still say what you want through whatever medium. If you like Russian style media, then Steemit style messaging would be your thing.

Having big stake-holders control what info is disseminated has little to do with economics in a direct sense, but please continue on with your idiotic babbling.  Thank you.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 10:21:30 pm by gamey »
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Offline Chronos

Once we agree on how much STEEM we should steal from the rich, then everyone will suddenly leave Reddit in a mass Exodus and flock to STEEM to post about Bernie Sanders

You dropped this.   -->   /s

Offline gamey

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STEEM is a Reddit-esque social media platform. What is Reddit's problem?

http://www.recode.net/2014/3/3/11624114/still-in-the-red-reddit-to-donate-one-tenth-of-ad-revenue-to-charity

Reddit's problem is that even with a massive userbase their costs are too high and their revenues are too low.
After ten years Reddit is still a loss making business model despite being the 14th most visited site in the US & 36th in the world in 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit

Quote
As of 2015, Reddit had 542 million monthly visitors (234 million unique users), ranking 14th most visited web-site in US and 36th in the world.[6] Across 2015, Reddit saw 82.54 billion pageviews, 73.15 million submissions, 725.85 million comments, and 6.89 billion upvotes from its users.[7]

So for STEEM to be an improvement on a Reddit-esque  platform they would have to find a way to drastically increase the revenue and/or reduce the costs of that business model. STEEM have done the opposite...

Quote
Reddit hypothesized that its platform would be improved if everyone who contributed to reddit.com by posting stories, adding comments or voting were rewarded with a fair share in Reddit, Inc1. Steem aims to support social media and online communities by returning much of its value to the people who provide valuable contributions

By paying users for popular content and even for comments/voting they've drastically increased the costs of that business model. Reddit earned <$10 million in 2014, which wasn't even enough to cover expenses. (Crunch some numbers using the wiki to see why it's not worthwhile paying for content on this type of platform and/or how much you'd have to increase revenue by to justify it.)

STEEM also reduces potential revenue per user as their initial user-base will be even less likely to give up personal info, allow targeted advertising or the censoring of board content to make it more advertiser friendly & I won't even go into the differences in the PR approaches.

In practical terms this means STEEM's burn rate (monthly expenses) will presumably be extremely high (paying to acquire users and for their content) but it will achieve no/low revenue and no meaningful longer term valuation from serious investors because the potential value per user, is if anything likely negative, so it will likely run into financial issues very rapidly. 

(It also deliberately went against all the crypto-currency community's cultural regulations, which is fine, but means as a result it's unlikely to be popular/adopted as a crypto-currency in it's own right.)

This is just a personal opinon, feel free to disagree and or make counter arguments especially those more familiar with the business model and future plans but I don't see a Steem merger being an issue as I don't see it being around for long.

(Other than keeping an inflated value for long enough to justify a high percentage stake in some sort of merger I can't see the point.)

I wonder why Reddit doesn't have more advertising. Are they afraid of a negative reaction? That place has almost no ads. I guess maybe there are some in the far right column ? 

In general though Steem should be able to run far cheaper than reddit. Although if it scaled up who knows, but it will never have administrative/management staff overhead.  Only the cost of machines.

I just can't see the 'get paid to post' working in the longrun or being sustainable. Also, having large stakeholders be able to up/downvote will be distasteful to a lot of people.

Then there are all the other games being played with vesting and so on so it'll "go to the moon".
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline mike623317

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I totally agree with svk here!
The nice thing about steem is that any improvements they make can be ported over to bts fairly easy bc its the same code base.
Let them improve and prove their stuff and then just assimilate the best parts.

THIS ^^^^  +5% +5% +5%

Offline bitsharesbrazil

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A straight merger will never happen, just forget about that. What could happen however is Bitshares deciding to adopt some of the features developed for Steem once they've proven that they work, like rate limited free transactions, market maker incentives and possibly the new pegged asset model.

One of the main issues Bitshares faces right now is the lack of interest around the market pegged assets; although the peg works fairly well the generation process through shorting/borrowing is failing to generate enough supply to make the assets viable. Steem has a new solution for this problem that could be ported to Bitshares if it turns out to be more successful. Bitshares currently does not have an ETH asset, perhaps a bitasset 2.0 could be implemented first using ETH, that could generate a lot of interest and would make it very easy for ETH holders to come trade on Bitshares. Anyway, we first need to see the new model in action in Steem, which will happen after the 4th of July..

svk, the new Steem model could not possibly overlap our market and become a competitor...
And it surely can't be used by BitShares...


I wanted to make sure Steem didn't compete with BitShares market.  In fact, one of the reasons I was willing to help with Steem was that its feature set is fundamentally incompatible with BitShares and we could not hardfork BitShares to implement what Steem does.

I never said anything about Steem becoming a competitor.

There's nothing stopping us from paying CNX through worker proposal to add some features from Steem if they work out well though, like the rate limited transactions. Steem is based on Graphene so the code changes needed would not be overwhelming. What features to implement is a discussion for another day though, I'm just saying it's an option that we should consider.

Agreed svk, this way dan.can.keep goiny with steem n everybody can keep going with bts, its reasonable.for everybody, we cannot expect anything for free......but if you guys want a translation.for portuvuese of openledger i can do it for free in my spare time, bts mooooooooooooooooon!
bitcointalk ANN https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1084460.0
chat, post, promote it!!!!!!!! Stan help to improve OP!