Author Topic: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.  (Read 8769 times)

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Offline xeroc

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2016, 08:49:12 am »
personally I do not like this idea, business should be done by businessmen.
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I dislike this as well and have cast that vote multiple times already.
For me, this is not the time to use our reserves to improve the liquidity .. not yet..
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Offline JonnyB

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2016, 11:32:26 am »
Topic starter suggests to provide liquidity with brute force, by taking all bids above the feed price on regular basis. Of course, MM account will be at loss this way, and traders will game it. Imo, it is ok to use reserve for market making, but strategy must be better than this. There should be a plan for issuing AND liquidating bitAsset. And liquidity should be provided both ways, for buyers and for sellers.

Sellers always have 100% liquidity, they can always sell at the peg, this what forced settlement is. We only need to provide liquidity for buyers.
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Offline JonnyB

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2016, 11:34:33 am »
personally I do not like this idea, business should be done by businessmen.
+1
+5%

I dislike this as well and have cast that vote multiple times already.
For me, this is not the time to use our reserves to improve the liquidity .. not yet..

Can you give reasons why?
I run the @bitshares twitter handle
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Offline yvv

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2016, 12:17:10 pm »
Topic starter suggests to provide liquidity with brute force, by taking all bids above the feed price on regular basis. Of course, MM account will be at loss this way, and traders will game it. Imo, it is ok to use reserve for market making, but strategy must be better than this. There should be a plan for issuing AND liquidating bitAsset. And liquidity should be provided both ways, for buyers and for sellers.

Sellers always have 100% liquidity, they can always sell at the peg, this what forced settlement is. We only need to provide liquidity for buyers.

Forced settlement is the last resort for holders to protect them from illiquid market, and it has limitations such as delay, offset and limited volume. Sellers still need market liquidity.

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2016, 12:57:21 pm »
personally I do not like this idea, business should be done by businessmen.
+1
+5%

I dislike this as well and have cast that vote multiple times already.
For me, this is not the time to use our reserves to improve the liquidity .. not yet..

Can you give reasons why?

I think it has something to do with the lack of utility that thus is not driving any real demand. By doing something like this 'today' we are creating an artificial market that is more likely to lead to something like nubits than towards growing.

That's just my guess anyways.. not a trader!
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Offline JonnyB

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2016, 01:03:31 pm »
Topic starter suggests to provide liquidity with brute force, by taking all bids above the feed price on regular basis. Of course, MM account will be at loss this way, and traders will game it. Imo, it is ok to use reserve for market making, but strategy must be better than this. There should be a plan for issuing AND liquidating bitAsset. And liquidity should be provided both ways, for buyers and for sellers.

Sellers always have 100% liquidity, they can always sell at the peg, this what forced settlement is. We only need to provide liquidity for buyers.

Forced settlement is the last resort for holders to protect them from illiquid market, and it has limitations such as delay, offset and limited volume. Sellers still need market liquidity.

The offset and limited volume will only be become an issue if it gets voted for, it's not an issue yet. 
Another way that would help a lot with liquidity would the ability to place relative orders that move in line with the settlement price. Then for example i could place a buy order that is 0.1 % over the settlement and not havve to worry about the price shifting.
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Offline maqifrnswa

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2016, 05:03:03 pm »
Topic starter suggests to provide liquidity with brute force, by taking all bids above the feed price on regular basis. Of course, MM account will be at loss this way, and traders will game it. Imo, it is ok to use reserve for market making, but strategy must be better than this. There should be a plan for issuing AND liquidating bitAsset. And liquidity should be provided both ways, for buyers and for sellers.

Sellers always have 100% liquidity, they can always sell at the peg, this what forced settlement is. We only need to provide liquidity for buyers.

long time no post by me, real life took off in a good way so I couldn't keep up with crypto world -  but what johnnybitcoin is saying is what I have been saying for 2+ years about bitshares 2.0. There is a bitasset buyer of laser resort (settlement), but there is no bitasset seller of last resort. In bitasset supply and demand terms, the system properly destroys bitassets when there is an oversupply (settlement), but there is no mechanism to have the system create bitassets when there is an undersupply. Supply is created by speculators, which causes a chicken-or-the-egg problem: speculators won't create supply in a market with low liquidity for fear of being trapped with no seller of last resort, so a low liquidity market remains low liquidity.

Using reserves/worker as a buy wall gives BTS the missing feature of creation of bitassets when demand exceeds supply (and the market is too thin to meet supply).
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Offline JonnyB

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2016, 05:32:22 pm »
Topic starter suggests to provide liquidity with brute force, by taking all bids above the feed price on regular basis. Of course, MM account will be at loss this way, and traders will game it. Imo, it is ok to use reserve for market making, but strategy must be better than this. There should be a plan for issuing AND liquidating bitAsset. And liquidity should be provided both ways, for buyers and for sellers.

Sellers always have 100% liquidity, they can always sell at the peg, this what forced settlement is. We only need to provide liquidity for buyers.

long time no post by me, real life took off in a good way so I couldn't keep up with crypto world -  but what johnnybitcoin is saying is what I have been saying for 2+ years about bitshares 2.0. There is a bitasset buyer of laser resort (settlement), but there is no bitasset seller of last resort. In bitasset supply and demand terms, the system properly destroys bitassets when there is an oversupply (settlement), but there is no mechanism to have the system create bitassets when there is an undersupply. Supply is created by speculators, which causes a chicken-or-the-egg problem: speculators won't create supply in a market with low liquidity for fear of being trapped with no seller of last resort, so a low liquidity market remains low liquidity.

Using reserves/worker as a buy wall gives BTS the missing feature of creation of bitassets when demand exceeds supply (and the market is too thin to meet supply).

Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself.

"Bitassets have a buyer of last resort. They are missing a seller of last resort."
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Offline paliboy

Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2016, 05:57:05 pm »
long time no post by me, real life took off in a good way so I couldn't keep up with crypto world -  but what johnnybitcoin is saying is what I have been saying for 2+ years about bitshares 2.0. There is a bitasset buyer of laser resort (settlement), but there is no bitasset seller of last resort. In bitasset supply and demand terms, the system properly destroys bitassets when there is an oversupply (settlement), but there is no mechanism to have the system create bitassets when there is an undersupply. Supply is created by speculators, which causes a chicken-or-the-egg problem: speculators won't create supply in a market with low liquidity for fear of being trapped with no seller of last resort, so a low liquidity market remains low liquidity.

Using reserves/worker as a buy wall gives BTS the missing feature of creation of bitassets when demand exceeds supply (and the market is too thin to meet supply).

Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself.

"Bitassets have a buyer of last resort. They are missing a seller of last resort."

 +5% people are not willing to sell even with 10% premium, few examples:

https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/JPY_BTS
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/HKD_BTS
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/GBP_BTS

Offline Chris4210

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2016, 07:00:49 pm »
Ok, so we don´t have enough people who would like to sell their BitUSD?

How will our situation change if:
- 200 BTC flow into BitShares every day, and will be converted into BitUSD
-  50% of the new BitUSD will be sold to on the market because they want to cash out

If the BitUSD cannot be sold against USD, the BitUSD has to be settle and the BTS has to be sold to get the equivalent amount in USD back.

We will have that situation in a few weeks after the launch of BlockPay. Any BitUSD buyers?
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Offline Akado

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2016, 08:14:42 pm »
Ok, so we don´t have enough people who would like to sell their BitUSD?

How will our situation change if:
- 200 BTC flow into BitShares every day, and will be converted into BitUSD
-  50% of the new BitUSD will be sold to on the market because they want to cash out

If the BitUSD cannot be sold against USD, the BitUSD has to be settle and the BTS has to be sold to get the equivalent amount in USD back.

We will have that situation in a few weeks after the launch of BlockPay. Any BitUSD buyers?

You mean just "200 btc" or you really meant 200btc/day? Although that would be the best thing to have ever happened to BTS, it sounds like a stretch... a huge, huge stretch.

keep up the good work with BlockPay  +5%
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Offline Pheonike

Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2016, 02:20:03 am »
personally I do not like this idea, business should be done by businessmen.
+1
+5%

I dislike this as well and have cast that vote multiple times already.
For me, this is not the time to use our reserves to improve the liquidity .. not yet..

Can you give reasons why?

I think it has something to do with the lack of utility that thus is not driving any real demand. By doing something like this 'today' we are creating an artificial market that is more likely to lead to something like nubits than towards growing.

That's just my guess anyways.. not a trader!
What do you mean? At minimum a hedge against btc is a utility. Look at this  btc dump. I used tether on polo to hedge. Would have been nice to have used bitusd.

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« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 02:22:10 am by Pheonike »

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2016, 03:20:13 am »
bitCNY supply has almost tripled since the optimization recommended by bitcrab...

If we want bitUSD to become more liquid and have a tighter peg, we have a proven template... without the need to tap the reserve funds

Offline JonnyB

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2016, 03:45:02 am »
Ok, so we don´t have enough people who would like to sell their BitUSD?

How will our situation change if:
- 200 BTC flow into BitShares every day, and will be converted into BitUSD
-  50% of the new BitUSD will be sold to on the market because they want to cash out

If the BitUSD cannot be sold against USD, the BitUSD has to be settle and the BTS has to be sold to get the equivalent amount in USD back.

We will have that situation in a few weeks after the launch of BlockPay. Any BitUSD buyers?

This sounds incredible if true.
When you say converted into BitUSD what do you mean ?
If you mean use the BTC to buy BitUSD you won't be able to as nobody will sell you that amount of BitUSD  without huge mark ups.
If you mean selling the 200btc for BTS then creating the BitUSD and then selling it  you will have money tied up in collateral for the BitUSD you just sold.
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Offline Chris4210

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2016, 09:12:29 am »
Yes, I mean around 200 BTC inflow in the Bitshares platform per day.

BlockPay works like that.
We have 40 Ambassadors in around 20 countries. If each Ambassador signs up 5 stores per month, we start with around 200 BlockPay installation on the market. We will start with Bitcoin meetups, bars, and restaurants who just have to download the free app and can accept Bitcoin payments at zero costs.  Business are still paying with Coinbase, Xapo etc.

200 BlockPays with let us say 1 BTC (550 USD) per day in Bitcoin sales brings in 200 BTC/day.

But how does it work?

BlockPay generates a Bitcoin QR-Code from our partner Blocktrades.us and the money will be converted through Blocktrades in BitUSD, BitEUR, BitCNY.

Bitcoin->Blocktrades->BitUSD ->?

What are the Merchant options?


a) Sell BitUSD for USD
b) Sell BitUSD for BTC to USD
c) Settle BitUSD for BTS to BTC to USD
d) Keep BitUSD and pay bills, salaries and other services from other partners ( Do you have a service for bitUSD ;) )

No matter what the business will do with their BitUSD, they will get it. And we will have a big increase in Liq on BitShares.
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