Author Topic: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.  (Read 8404 times)

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Offline yvv

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2016, 11:37:39 am »
bitCNY supply has almost tripled since the optimization recommended by bitcrab...

If we want bitUSD to become more liquid and have a tighter peg, we have a proven template... without the need to tap the reserve funds

Coincidence does not necessarily mean causality.

 

Offline yvv

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2016, 11:41:23 am »
Yes, I mean around 200 BTC inflow in the Bitshares platform per day.

BlockPay works like that.
We have 40 Ambassadors in around 20 countries. If each Ambassador signs up 5 stores per month, we start with around 200 BlockPay installation on the market. We will start with Bitcoin meetups, bars, and restaurants who just have to download the free app and can accept Bitcoin payments at zero costs.  Business are still paying with Coinbase, Xapo etc.

200 BlockPays with let us say 1 BTC (550 USD) per day in Bitcoin sales brings in 200 BTC/day.

But how does it work?

BlockPay generates a Bitcoin QR-Code from our partner Blocktrades.us and the money will be converted through Blocktrades in BitUSD, BitEUR, BitCNY.

Bitcoin->Blocktrades->BitUSD ->?

What are the Merchant options?


a) Sell BitUSD for USD
b) Sell BitUSD for BTC to USD
c) Settle BitUSD for BTS to BTC to USD
d) Keep BitUSD and pay bills, salaries and other services from other partners ( Do you have a service for bitUSD ;) )

No matter what the business will do with their BitUSD, they will get it. And we will have a big increase in Liq on BitShares.

These are sweet dreams. Let's see if they will ever come true.

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2016, 11:48:00 am »
bitCNY supply has almost tripled since the optimization recommended by bitcrab...

If we want bitUSD to become more liquid and have a tighter peg, we have a proven template... without the need to tap the reserve funds

Coincidence does not necessarily mean causality.

True, but it was the only smartcoin to increase its supply drastically. It was also the only coin to have the optimization. If the increase was not due to the optimization, I would expect the other smartcoins would have also increased their supply.  But they did not.

Perhaps we should try the optimization on a smartcoin that's not bitUSD to see if the same results as bitCNY can be achieved.

Offline JonnyB

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2016, 06:43:19 am »
I am still yet to hear any convincing reason why this proposal could have a negative effect on bitshares.
Is there a consensus among the committee that demand for BitUSD is not the issue, it is the supply of BitUSD that is the issue?
If not from a worker proposal where does the committee suggest this supply should come from?

Another solution would fit nicely would be that all worker proposals are paid in BitUSD but this would require a hard fork.

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Offline lil_jay890

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2016, 07:07:06 am »
I am still yet to hear any convincing reason why this proposal could have a negative effect on bitshares.
Is there a consensus among the committee that demand for BitUSD is not the issue, it is the supply of BitUSD that is the issue?
If not from a worker proposal where does the committee suggest this supply should come from?

Another solution would fit nicely would be that all worker proposals are paid in BitUSD but this would require a hard fork.

[member=120]xeroc[/member] [member=23]bitcrab[/member] [member=350]Bhuz[/member]  [member=19219]clayop[/member] @bitcube [member=18687]abit[/member] @dele-puppy @BunkerChain Labs [member=20]ebit[/member] [member=38926]Chris4210[/member] [member=34]Harvey[/member]-xts

Trying to control the money supply in order to induce a bubble is very fed-ish.

Yes it may work to bolster bts in the short term, but it goes against the principles of many members. As a long term affect I believe it would further the belief that bts is centralized.  The effects of bts being more centralized are unknown, but I think centralization perception is the leading cause of the bts bear market.

Offline ebit

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2016, 07:15:04 am »
Quote
Quote
I am still yet to hear any convincing reason why this proposal could have a negative effect on bitshares.
Is there a consensus among the committee that demand for BitUSD is not the issue, it is the supply of BitUSD that is the issue?
If not from a worker proposal where does the committee suggest this supply should come from?

Another solution would fit nicely would be that all worker proposals are paid in BitUSD but this would require a hard fork.

[member=120]xeroc[/member] [member=23]bitcrab[/member] [member=350]Bhuz[/member]  [member=19219]clayop[/member] @bitcube [member=18687]abit[/member] @dele-puppy @BunkerChain Labs [member=20]ebit[/member] [member=38926]Chris4210[/member] [member=34]Harvey[/member]-xts
Trying to control the money supply in order to induce a bubble is very fed-ish.

Yes it may work to bolster bts in the short term, but it goes against the principles of many members.
Yes,Who want to increase bitusd´╝îplease short your bts by yourself .don't stare at others.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2016, 07:20:03 am »
Another solution would fit nicely would be that all worker proposals are paid in BitUSD but this would require a hard fork.
That's not true. I proposed on several occasions to create a new multisig account (owned by the committee) that actually creates the workers for people looking to work for BitShares, gets the BTS and borrows bitUSD at ratio 3x or more) to pay them to the "employee" ...
All we need to do is to agree on this process since the shareholder needs to pay 3x - MORE for the worker in BTS terms to fund the collateral.
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2016, 01:18:08 pm »
Another solution would fit nicely would be that all worker proposals are paid in BitUSD but this would require a hard fork.
That's not true. I proposed on several occasions to create a new multisig account (owned by the committee) that actually creates the workers for people looking to work for BitShares, gets the BTS and borrows bitUSD at ratio 3x or more) to pay them to the "employee" ...
All we need to do is to agree on this process since the shareholder needs to pay 3x - MORE for the worker in BTS terms to fund the collateral.

There is the problem to it. :) .. Everyone freaks out when they see the amount of BTS being asked for.. regardless of the conversion.. its the number they see they are voting on.

Other than the human issue.. I think its a fantastic idea though.
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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2016, 01:24:30 pm »
I am still yet to hear any convincing reason why this proposal could have a negative effect on bitshares.
Is there a consensus among the committee that demand for BitUSD is not the issue, it is the supply of BitUSD that is the issue?
If not from a worker proposal where does the committee suggest this supply should come from?

Another solution would fit nicely would be that all worker proposals are paid in BitUSD but this would require a hard fork.

[member=120]xeroc[/member] [member=23]bitcrab[/member] [member=350]Bhuz[/member]  [member=19219]clayop[/member] @bitcube [member=18687]abit[/member] @dele-puppy @BunkerChain Labs [member=20]ebit[/member] [member=38926]Chris4210[/member] [member=34]Harvey[/member]-xts

Initially I thought this was a good idea.. but the more I thought about it the more I saw too many issues as have been stated by different people.
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Offline kingslanding

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2016, 01:30:15 pm »
Yes, I mean around 200 BTC inflow in the Bitshares platform per day.

BlockPay works like that.
We have 40 Ambassadors in around 20 countries. If each Ambassador signs up 5 stores per month, we start with around 200 BlockPay installation on the market. We will start with Bitcoin meetups, bars, and restaurants who just have to download the free app and can accept Bitcoin payments at zero costs.  Business are still paying with Coinbase, Xapo etc.

200 BlockPays with let us say 1 BTC (550 USD) per day in Bitcoin sales brings in 200 BTC/day.

But how does it work?

BlockPay generates a Bitcoin QR-Code from our partner Blocktrades.us and the money will be converted through Blocktrades in BitUSD, BitEUR, BitCNY.

Bitcoin->Blocktrades->BitUSD ->?

What are the Merchant options?


a) Sell BitUSD for USD
b) Sell BitUSD for BTC to USD
c) Settle BitUSD for BTS to BTC to USD
d) Keep BitUSD and pay bills, salaries and other services from other partners ( Do you have a service for bitUSD ;) )

No matter what the business will do with their BitUSD, they will get it. And we will have a big increase in Liq on BitShares.

Would a merchant have to do the "bitUSD to USD" conversion himself by hand or can he set it up to do it automatically after so many transactions?  Doing it himself could be a deterrent to use Blockpay.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2016, 02:35:22 pm »
There is the problem to it. :) .. Everyone freaks out when they see the amount of BTS being asked for.. regardless of the conversion.. its the number they see they are voting on.

Other than the human issue.. I think its a fantastic idea though.
Thinking about it .. it's actually not an issue at all .. if they pay 3x the BTS .. only 1/3 will be payed to the worker .. and 2/3 will be "leverage" on BTS ..
Interestingly .. we can do BOTH .. at the same time .. the worker can create his own worker paying BTS .. and the committee-owned worker account can create the same worker asking for 3x the BTS with the promise to pay the original worker in USD and have leverage on BTS .. If the ordinary worker is voted in .. anything the committee worker receives can be kept (or returns) as owned by the committee and thus shareholders anyway .. nothing to loose ..
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2016, 02:41:32 pm »
There is the problem to it. :) .. Everyone freaks out when they see the amount of BTS being asked for.. regardless of the conversion.. its the number they see they are voting on.

Other than the human issue.. I think its a fantastic idea though.
Thinking about it .. it's actually not an issue at all .. if they pay 3x the BTS .. only 1/3 will be payed to the worker .. and 2/3 will be "leverage" on BTS ..
Interestingly .. we can do BOTH .. at the same time .. the worker can create his own worker paying BTS .. and the committee-owned worker account can create the same worker asking for 3x the BTS with the promise to pay the original worker in USD and have leverage on BTS .. If the ordinary worker is voted in .. anything the committee worker receives can be kept (or returns) as owned by the committee and thus shareholders anyway .. nothing to loose ..

I like that also because it adds a degree of 'curation' to the process.... but in this case we then have to maintain 2 workers being voted in if I understand this correctly. What happens when one is voted in but the other is not?
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Offline Chris4210

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2016, 04:20:27 pm »
Yes, I mean around 200 BTC inflow in the Bitshares platform per day.

BlockPay works like that.
We have 40 Ambassadors in around 20 countries. If each Ambassador signs up 5 stores per month, we start with around 200 BlockPay installation on the market. We will start with Bitcoin meetups, bars, and restaurants who just have to download the free app and can accept Bitcoin payments at zero costs.  Business are still paying with Coinbase, Xapo etc.

200 BlockPays with let us say 1 BTC (550 USD) per day in Bitcoin sales brings in 200 BTC/day.

But how does it work?

BlockPay generates a Bitcoin QR-Code from our partner Blocktrades.us and the money will be converted through Blocktrades in BitUSD, BitEUR, BitCNY.

Bitcoin->Blocktrades->BitUSD ->?

What are the Merchant options?


a) Sell BitUSD for USD
b) Sell BitUSD for BTC to USD
c) Settle BitUSD for BTS to BTC to USD
d) Keep BitUSD and pay bills, salaries and other services from other partners ( Do you have a service for bitUSD ;) )

No matter what the business will do with their BitUSD, they will get it. And we will have a big increase in Liq on BitShares.

Would a merchant have to do the "bitUSD to USD" conversion himself by hand or can he set it up to do it automatically after so many transactions?  Doing it himself could be a deterrent to using BlockPay.

At the beginning, the Merchant has to do the conversion from BitUSD to USD by himself. Since that can be very confusing, we want to build a very simple merchant wallet where he can do the transfer and withdraw his funds to his bank account. The conversion will be handled by selected gateways.
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Offline Akado

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2016, 04:51:33 pm »
Another solution would fit nicely would be that all worker proposals are paid in BitUSD but this would require a hard fork.
That's not true. I proposed on several occasions to create a new multisig account (owned by the committee) that actually creates the workers for people looking to work for BitShares, gets the BTS and borrows bitUSD at ratio 3x or more) to pay them to the "employee" ...
All we need to do is to agree on this process since the shareholder needs to pay 3x - MORE for the worker in BTS terms to fund the collateral.

wouldn't that be positive since workers wouldn't inflate? bts would be instantly locked while increasing bitassets supply. true, it wouldn't reduce available supply since it came from the reserve pool, but at least we wouldn't have bts dumped. It would most likely be traded for bitcoin and then withdrawn, increasing volume and liquidity
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Offline JonnyB

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Re: BitUSD needs liquidity for those that want to buy it.
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2016, 06:35:42 pm »
Another solution would fit nicely would be that all worker proposals are paid in BitUSD but this would require a hard fork.
That's not true. I proposed on several occasions to create a new multisig account (owned by the committee) that actually creates the workers for people looking to work for BitShares, gets the BTS and borrows bitUSD at ratio 3x or more) to pay them to the "employee" ...
All we need to do is to agree on this process since the shareholder needs to pay 3x - MORE for the worker in BTS terms to fund the collateral.

I'm glad you agree this would be a suitable alternative. We should look to develop this idea further.
When I said it would require a hard fork I meant for it to be done in a decentralised way. 
Yes the committee-account could pay BitUSD to workers that mirrors the pay that they receive for their own worker proposals. (but this isn't very elegant)
The ultimate solution would be if all workers were paid in Bitusd that was created autonomously using the funds in the reserve pool as backing. (this would need a hard fork)


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