Author Topic: Is it like you don't care about PTS?  (Read 11878 times)

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Offline mich431

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Offline luckybit

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lol, desperation.
this emotional thread so transparent to understand, i think its not about Invictus or Bts project only, its about current cryptoindustry in whole, many analysts alarmists think that in near 2-6 months S&P500 going to collapse very deeply. I mean it would be as bad as  in 2008. That prediction is influence negatively sentiment to BTC/USD rate.
BTC rate/sentiment affect whole cryptos, because altcoins are derivatives of bitcoins.
I think that in near term (1-12 months) prices to all cryptocurrencies awaits down trend, even with superb marketing like in nxt proj.
So...its good year for investments
imho my 2 cents ;)

how should a stock market crash effect crypto currencies in a negative way??
idk, its tendency, it was like that in 2008 USD index skyrocketed in to air

lol if this happens and u have 1 BTC u can buy like 3 houses :)
but beware the gold holders ..they will try to crack your head open with their heavy gold bars to find your brain wallet  :D
it depends on market situation, nobody know how people will react during stock market decline, thats all i know.

But we know why and when it will decline allowing proper investment into the cryptocurrencies and financial instruments to actually profit from it. The stock market decline will mean money will move. It does not guarantee it will move to Bitcoin but if the right financial instruments are built in time it could move at least some money into our ecosystem and that could actually be billions of dollars.


hmm... for some reason this bottom line does not feel fine when reading...
a) giving examples for "amzing things" would really increase trust
b) if i were you i wouldnt bet my entire life and future on a startup of any kind... i know that this line is probably not said all that seriously, but theres probably still a bit of truth in it
c) your bet as a developer and the one on the receiving side of the fundings is definately a different one than on the investment side giving away money
The truth is when you work for possibly the most disruptive technology company in the world, yes you're putting everything on the line and that attitude is a good attitude to have because it's the true state of things. Bitshares is about replacing the stock market as we know it, decentralizing it. and is even more ambitious than that with DACs producing an entirely new economic ecology. There will be books written about these developments in the future and if it fails those books will not be written in a good light.

I think anyone who is a public face of these projects will also be the people taking the most risk. We should give them respect because someone had to take the risk in order to innovate.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 01:44:59 pm by luckybit »
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Offline luckybit

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Just so you know

1. There is no public ledger over how funds are being spent. I saw Brian gets 100 pts a week for working with Invictus? Last I checked no start-up founder gets  close to 10k a month in salary unless he's running a bloated company thats headed to a crash

PTS are not dollars. Solid point but dollars are stable while PTS could crash at any moment. Also many artists and marketing directors do get paid in stock. People being paid in PTS are similar to people being paid in stock, not dollars.

So you're wrong. It's actually normal to offer stock options or to pay in stock as well as dollars. How do you think the people working for companies like Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook all became so rich? They were paid in $ along with stock.

People paid in PTS are more like people who get paid in stock. In my opinion this is fair. As far as whether or not they are amateurs, that will be revealed by the quality of their work. At the end of the day PTS have to recirculate back into the community and over time the amateurs gain skill and become experts.

You're right, they do need to hire more full time programmers. But you're wrong in saying that PTS should be valued in $ as if the $ value cannot be crashed. It's stock which means at any moment you could get 100PTS of worthlessness or 100PTS worth $100,000. We just don't know but that is one of the reasons why it's exciting for people to work for start ups. Working for a start up which goes on to become successful can make you rich.

As a miner and investor you're taking a risk, but so are the people who invest their time on these bounties. As long as people are willing to take a risk for the project, they should be able to receive the rewards.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 01:48:53 pm by luckybit »
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Offline td services

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I invested 4 days with my entire team (I run a start-up too) , setting up 1000's of servers (close to 4000 for those wondering) and burned around 40000 dollars (not to mention time wasted doing this while I could focus on my start-up instead),  and mined a seizable amount of coins. Sure I could dump my coins in mid December when coin prices were at a high. But no! I believed in what you guys were doing and stuck around as any reasonable investor would. I looked forward to keyhotee and bitshares and spoke about it to people. As a matter of fact I have also been working on partnerships with different networks for acquiring massive mining hardware, servers and was looking forward to investing another 100,000 in mining operations.

This is exactly what Protoshares was trying to avoid by having an algorithm which favored standalone computers with CPU mining based on memory capacity for decentralization, with a much more gradual creation of PTS. While it succeeded in discouraging ASICs and GPUs, it failed by allowing massive cloud mining on server farms and botnets. The money wasted on cloud mining would have been much better spent on development. I really hope someone comes up with an algorithm which cripples cloud mining along with the ASICs and GPUs.

I considered exchanging PTS for AGS, but have decided the lock-in of AGS is not worth the loss of optionality and liquidity of PTS at current AGS prices, but AGS makes a lot of sense to correct the problem with Protoshares, which have become a liability with little benefit to the project.

Offline mich431

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Bottom line is that what you see on the forum is the tip of the iceberg of amazing things going on.   We are betting our entire life and future on these things so I can assure you we care very much about PTS, AGS, BitShares, Keyhotee, etc.

hmm... for some reason this bottom line does not feel fine when reading...
a) giving examples for "amzing things" would really increase trust
b) if i were you i wouldnt bet my entire life and future on a startup of any kind... i know that this line is probably not said all that seriously, but theres probably still a bit of truth in it
c) your bet as a developer and the one on the receiving side of the fundings is definately a different one than on the investment side giving away money

overall i think the expectations are too high... since there does not seem to be anything similar in concept that also gives hope to people getting rich&richer... when expectations are that high its always a problem to meet them...
also investing early is always a bet on success - the earlier you invest, the higher the risk is to fail (obvious example is Bitcoin itself - investing now is alot less profiatable than months ago)
so when people realise their fear of a failure is too high it just means they invested more than they should have

in the end its pretty much more of an "as is" situation and you can take it or leave it now or later
sure you can suggest and try to help and whatnot, but i dont think the influence of most people here is really that big
(which can be both, good and bad)

just my thoughts when reading this thread....

sumantso

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Carefull not everybody appreciates that :)

As for the rest I thing the bytemaster answer should cover every concerned raised.

thank. you.

Oh don't worry, its not all hugs and kisses now. I am still angry that PTS got a very raw deal wrt AGS IMO.

Offline oco101

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Priority :
1.Keyhotee
2.Website
3.Bitshares
4. Marketing

We have adopted parallel and independent development tracts so Keyhotee will be developed at whatever pace Dan Notestein and team can manage.
Website is being working on in Parallel and Super3 is providing full time effort competing for the bounty. 
BitShares is being worked on in Parallel by ME 75% of the time and daily updates are being posted with a goal toward MVP.
Marketing is being worked on in Parallel by Brian full time and based upon what I have seen him produce internally you will be impressed.
Recruitment and partnership development is being managed by others.
Bounties will soon be managed by a new hire who will take on the roll of system integrator.

I have given each individual autonomy so that I do not become the bottleneck.  Until 12 days ago we couldn't even consider hiring anyone more, but with this boost in funding things will really start moving.    We are allocating a budget of 10% AGS funding to marketing as this is the industry average and Brian is actively working many angles to make most effective use of that.

Most of our marketing push has been held back by website update delays, but those delays will not last much longer. 

Bottom line is that what you see on the forum is the tip of the iceberg of amazing things going on.   We are betting our entire life and future on these things so I can assure you we care very much about PTS, AGS, BitShares, Keyhotee, etc.

Cheers

I like how you engage in the forums. If some of the other team members did so too that would be a fun update for us.
Carefull not everybody appreciates that :)

As for the rest I thing the bytemaster answer should cover every concerned raised.

thank. you.

Offline Geneko

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I guess this is the tread I have been looking for.

Here is my post on similar issues but from different angle: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2306.msg28341#msg28341

sumantso

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Priority :
1.Keyhotee
2.Website
3.Bitshares
4. Marketing

We have adopted parallel and independent development tracts so Keyhotee will be developed at whatever pace Dan Notestein and team can manage.
Website is being working on in Parallel and Super3 is providing full time effort competing for the bounty. 
BitShares is being worked on in Parallel by ME 75% of the time and daily updates are being posted with a goal toward MVP.
Marketing is being worked on in Parallel by Brian full time and based upon what I have seen him produce internally you will be impressed.
Recruitment and partnership development is being managed by others.
Bounties will soon be managed by a new hire who will take on the roll of system integrator.

I have given each individual autonomy so that I do not become the bottleneck.  Until 12 days ago we couldn't even consider hiring anyone more, but with this boost in funding things will really start moving.    We are allocating a budget of 10% AGS funding to marketing as this is the industry average and Brian is actively working many angles to make most effective use of that.

Most of our marketing push has been held back by website update delays, but those delays will not last much longer. 

Bottom line is that what you see on the forum is the tip of the iceberg of amazing things going on.   We are betting our entire life and future on these things so I can assure you we care very much about PTS, AGS, BitShares, Keyhotee, etc.

Cheers

I like how you engage in the forums. If some of the other team members did so too that would be a fun update for us.

Offline bytemaster

Priority :
1.Keyhotee
2.Website
3.Bitshares
4. Marketing

We have adopted parallel and independent development tracts so Keyhotee will be developed at whatever pace Dan Notestein and team can manage.
Website is being working on in Parallel and Super3 is providing full time effort competing for the bounty. 
BitShares is being worked on in Parallel by ME 75% of the time and daily updates are being posted with a goal toward MVP.
Marketing is being worked on in Parallel by Brian full time and based upon what I have seen him produce internally you will be impressed.
Recruitment and partnership development is being managed by others.
Bounties will soon be managed by a new hire who will take on the roll of system integrator.

I have given each individual autonomy so that I do not become the bottleneck.  Until 12 days ago we couldn't even consider hiring anyone more, but with this boost in funding things will really start moving.    We are allocating a budget of 10% AGS funding to marketing as this is the industry average and Brian is actively working many angles to make most effective use of that.

Most of our marketing push has been held back by website update delays, but those delays will not last much longer. 

Bottom line is that what you see on the forum is the tip of the iceberg of amazing things going on.   We are betting our entire life and future on these things so I can assure you we care very much about PTS, AGS, BitShares, Keyhotee, etc. 

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bitcoinba

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So let see :

-3I it is a 2 month old company,and  in those two months they manage to crowdfound  more than a million dollar and they will have more then 2  millions by the end of the third month . For that matter how's your start-up compare ? Or any start-up  in this short time frame?
-they have a full team working on Keyhotee around the clock and they delivered the first alpha version. Read the last newsletter, they explained why the delay for keyhotee, in fact they  addressee all your concerns that you raise here.
-finding new good developers, as you should know, is not easy, finding new developers familiar with cryptoworld is even harder. Bounties it is a way to find those rare developers and to attract that talent make those bounty worthwhile I remember when they announce that they have a team working around the clock for keyhotee, some complained that this is not the right approach and bounty should be the way to do it etc. Well, I guess they have them both now. But I guess this is not good enough either ....

You make some good points tough  :

-I agree some of the bounties they are more efficient done by hiring professionals like for the website. In my opinion the website should be one of the top priorities right know, and should have been done by know.
-Marketing until now not the best thing !!( but I have fate on Brian  )
-"How about you leave the forum to your great batch of moderators and go ahead with things that actually require your attention?" I thing although bytemaster presence is essential on the forum,  I think now there are enough people that could moderate and answer most parts. He already started doing that.
-Most of you concerns are addressed in the forum, but not everybody has the time to look this is very true and this must be improved. The newsletter is not enough, some kind of global news once a week will clarify things for everybody. 

Yeah sure there are things that should and must be improved but let's be objective here. Blaming it the easiest thing to do.

+1


Offline cass

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So let see :

-3I it is a 2 month old company,and  in those two months they manage to crowdfound  more than a million dollar and they will have more then 2  millions by the end of the third month . For that matter how's your start-up compare ? Or any start-up  in this short time frame?
-they have a full team working on Keyhotee around the clock and they delivered the first alpha version. Read the last newsletter, they explained why the delay for keyhotee, in fact they  addressee all your concerns that you raise here.
-finding new good developers, as you should know, is not easy, finding new developers familiar with cryptoworld is even harder. Bounties it is a way to find those rare developers and to attract that talent make those bounty worthwhile I remember when they announce that they have a team working around the clock for keyhotee, some complained that this is not the right approach and bounty should be the way to do it etc. Well, I guess they have them both now. But I guess this is not good enough either ....

You make some good points tough  :

-I agree some of the bounties they are more efficient done by hiring professionals like for the website. In my opinion the website should be one of the top priorities right know, and should have been done by know.
-Marketing until now not the best thing !!( but I have fate on Brian  )
-"How about you leave the forum to your great batch of moderators and go ahead with things that actually require your attention?" I thing although bytemaster presence is essential on the forum,  I think now there are enough people that could moderate and answer most parts. He already started doing that.
-Most of you concerns are addressed in the forum, but not everybody has the time to look this is very true and this must be improved. The newsletter is not enough, some kind of global news once a week will clarify things for everybody. 

Yeah sure there are things that should and must be improved but let's be objective here. Blaming it the easiest thing to do.
To tell truth, im not sure that load marketing campaign is good for Bts project on this stage.
We would receive more funding, its good, but we already have enough investments flows, more important for now to develop exceptional product ,so that new people start to use Bts system from start.
Priority :
1.Keyhotee
2.Website
3.Bitshares
4. Marketing

All points you mentioned are in progress but iam thinking all those parts have same priority (high) but for different teams :)
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline oco101

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So let see :

-3I it is a 2 month old company,and  in those two months they manage to crowdfound  more than a million dollar and they will have more then 2  millions by the end of the third month . For that matter how's your start-up compare ? Or any start-up  in this short time frame?
-they have a full team working on Keyhotee around the clock and they delivered the first alpha version. Read the last newsletter, they explained why the delay for keyhotee, in fact they  addressee all your concerns that you raise here.
-finding new good developers, as you should know, is not easy, finding new developers familiar with cryptoworld is even harder. Bounties it is a way to find those rare developers and to attract that talent make those bounty worthwhile I remember when they announce that they have a team working around the clock for keyhotee, some complained that this is not the right approach and bounty should be the way to do it etc. Well, I guess they have them both now. But I guess this is not good enough either ....

You make some good points tough  :

-I agree some of the bounties they are more efficient done by hiring professionals like for the website. In my opinion the website should be one of the top priorities right know, and should have been done by know.
-Marketing until now not the best thing !!( but I have fate on Brian  )
-"How about you leave the forum to your great batch of moderators and go ahead with things that actually require your attention?" I thing although bytemaster presence is essential on the forum,  I think now there are enough people that could moderate and answer most parts. He already started doing that.
-Most of you concerns are addressed in the forum, but not everybody has the time to look this is very true and this must be improved. The newsletter is not enough, some kind of global news once a week will clarify things for everybody. 

Yeah sure there are things that should and must be improved but let's be objective here. Blaming it the easiest thing to do.
To tell truth, im not sure that load marketing campaign is good for Bts project on this stage.
We would receive more funding, its good, but we already have enough investments flows, more important for now to develop exceptional product ,so that new people start to use Bts system from start.
Priority :
1.Keyhotee
2.Website
3.Bitshares
4. Marketing

Offline hasher

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So let see :

-3I it is a 2 month old company,and  in those two months they manage to crowdfound  more than a million dollar and they will have more then 2  millions by the end of the third month . For that matter how's your start-up compare ? Or any start-up  in this short time frame?
-they have a full team working on Keyhotee around the clock and they delivered the first alpha version. Read the last newsletter, they explained why the delay for keyhotee, in fact they  addressee all your concerns that you raise here.
-finding new good developers, as you should know, is not easy, finding new developers familiar with cryptoworld is even harder. Bounties it is a way to find those rare developers and to attract that talent make those bounty worthwhile I remember when they announce that they have a team working around the clock for keyhotee, some complained that this is not the right approach and bounty should be the way to do it etc. Well, I guess they have them both now. But I guess this is not good enough either ....

You make some good points tough  :

-I agree some of the bounties they are more efficient done by hiring professionals like for the website. In my opinion the website should be one of the top priorities right know, and should have been done by know.
-Marketing until now not the best thing !!( but I have fate on Brian  )
-"How about you leave the forum to your great batch of moderators and go ahead with things that actually require your attention?" I thing although bytemaster presence is essential on the forum,  I think now there are enough people that could moderate and answer most parts. He already started doing that.
-Most of you concerns are addressed in the forum, but not everybody has the time to look this is very true and this must be improved. The newsletter is not enough, some kind of global news once a week will clarify things for everybody. 

Yeah sure there are things that should and must be improved but let's be objective here. Blaming it the easiest thing to do.
To tell truth, im not sure that load marketing campaign is good for Bts project on this stage.
We would receive more funding, its good, but we already have enough investments flows, more important for now to develop exceptional product ,so that new people start to use Bts system from start.

Offline hasher

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lol, desperation.
this emotional thread so transparent to understand, i think its not about Invictus or Bts project only, its about current cryptoindustry in whole, many analysts alarmists think that in near 2-6 months S&P500 going to collapse very deeply. I mean it would be as bad as  in 2008. That prediction is influence negatively sentiment to BTC/USD rate.
BTC rate/sentiment affect whole cryptos, because altcoins are derivatives of bitcoins.
I think that in near term (1-12 months) prices to all cryptocurrencies awaits down trend, even with superb marketing like in nxt proj.
So...its good year for investments
imho my 2 cents ;)

how should a stock market crash effect crypto currencies in a negative way??
idk, its tendency, it was like that in 2008 USD index skyrocketed in to air

lol if this happens and u have 1 BTC u can buy like 3 houses :)
but beware the gold holders ..they will try to crack your head open with their heavy gold bars to find your brain wallet  :D
it depends on market situation, nobody know how people will react during stock market decline, thats all i know.

Offline oco101

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So let see :

-3I it is a 2 month old company,and  in those two months they manage to crowdfound  more than a million dollar and they will have more then 2  millions by the end of the third month . For that matter how's your start-up compare ? Or any start-up  in this short time frame?
-they have a full team working on Keyhotee around the clock and they delivered the first alpha version. Read the last newsletter, they explained why the delay for keyhotee, in fact they  addressee all your concerns that you raise here.
-finding new good developers, as you should know, is not easy, finding new developers familiar with cryptoworld is even harder. Bounties it is a way to find those rare developers and to attract that talent make those bounty worthwhile I remember when they announce that they have a team working around the clock for keyhotee, some complained that this is not the right approach and bounty should be the way to do it etc. Well, I guess they have them both now. But I guess this is not good enough either ....

You make some good points tough  :

-I agree some of the bounties they are more efficient done by hiring professionals like for the website. In my opinion the website should be one of the top priorities right know, and should have been done by know.
-Marketing until now not the best thing !!( but I have fate on Brian  )
-"How about you leave the forum to your great batch of moderators and go ahead with things that actually require your attention?" I thing although bytemaster presence is essential on the forum,  I think now there are enough people that could moderate and answer most parts. He already started doing that.
-Most of you concerns are addressed in the forum, but not everybody has the time to look this is very true and this must be improved. The newsletter is not enough, some kind of global news once a week will clarify things for everybody. 

Yeah sure there are things that should and must be improved but let's be objective here. Blaming it the easiest thing to do.

Offline JA

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lol, desperation.
this emotional thread so transparent to understand, i think its not about Invictus or Bts project only, its about current cryptoindustry in whole, many analysts alarmists think that in near 2-6 months S&P500 going to collapse very deeply. I mean it would be as bad as  in 2008. That prediction is influence negatively sentiment to BTC/USD rate.
BTC rate/sentiment affect whole cryptos, because altcoins are derivatives of bitcoins.
I think that in near term (1-12 months) prices to all cryptocurrencies awaits down trend, even with superb marketing like in nxt proj.
So...its good year for investments
imho my 2 cents ;)

how should a stock market crash effect crypto currencies in a negative way??
idk, its tendency, it was like that in 2008 USD index skyrocketed in to air

lol if this happens and u have 1 BTC u can buy like 3 houses :)
but beware the gold holders ..they will try to crack your head open with their heavy gold bars to find your brain wallet  :D

Offline hasher

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lol, desperation.
this emotional thread so transparent to understand, i think its not about Invictus or Bts project only, its about current cryptoindustry in whole, many analysts alarmists think that in near 2-6 months S&P500 going to collapse very deeply. I mean it would be as bad as  in 2008. That prediction is influence negatively sentiment to BTC/USD rate.
BTC rate/sentiment affect whole cryptos, because altcoins are derivatives of bitcoins.
I think that in near term (1-12 months) prices to all cryptocurrencies awaits down trend, even with superb marketing like in nxt proj.
So...its good year for investments
imho my 2 cents ;)

how should a stock market crash effect crypto currencies in a negative way??
idk, its tendency, it was like that in 2008 USD index skyrocketed in to air

Offline santaclause102

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lol, desperation.
this emotional thread so transparent to understand, i think its not about Invictus or Bts project only, its about current cryptoindustry in whole, many analysts alarmists think that in near 2-6 months S&P500 going to collapse very deeply. I mean it would be as bad as  in 2008. That prediction is influence negatively sentiment to BTC/USD rate.
BTC rate/sentiment affect whole cryptos, because altcoins are derivatives of bitcoins.
I think that in near term (1-12 months) prices to all cryptocurrencies awaits down trend, even with superb marketing like in nxt proj.
So...its good year for investments
imho my 2 cents ;)

how should a stock market crash effect crypto currencies in a negative way??

Offline santaclause102

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哥们是中国人吧 行文完全是同胞风格;

赞! 需要快马加鞭让他们做事
When quoting english .. could you please also reply in english.. thx

I think the man starting the thread is a chinese guy!

I fully support this man!  we should spur those 3i guys to push forward the projects! with a serious team!

The OP had some suggestions content wise. He got a bit emotional but he made some suggestions that are very worth thinking about. Just saying "build a better team" or something is not very helpful. I am sure they are working there asses off. different perspectives from the community are helpful though. So be constructive!

Offline ppcholder

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哥们是中国人吧 行文完全是同胞风格;

赞! 需要快马加鞭让他们做事
When quoting english .. could you please also reply in english.. thx

I think the man starting the thread is a chinese guy!

I fully support this man!  we should spur those 3i guys to push forward the projects! with a serious team!

Offline marketp2p

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Transparency is good, I don't mind seeing Dan spending more time on the board and letting others do more coding, than feeling being left in the dark.

That being said, my biggest concern is how much it really worth for a so-called  Social Consensuses (a.k.a Social Contract). Setting aside the arguments whether any promise has been broken between late November and today, it's clear the motivation for the change was for Invictus to get more funding to get projects done.

From an investor point of view thought, this represents a change from a very generous offer to a not so great offer. I can understand there might be some flaws in the original plan -- if the company don't have enough funding to get things done, everybody lose.

However, the investment community can only tolerate one or maybe two changes of course, beyond that, most investors' confidence will be gone except the most gullible.  A company can make and learn from many mistakes on the technology side, but when it comes to issues with the implication of redistributing profit among community groups, tread with extreme caution.

Even with all the rules and regulations put in place by the governments, many management teams of public traded companies can find ways to dilute shares, enrich themselves and make their companies "lifestyle companies".  With DAC model, the constraint is even weaker, greed and other human natures make investors in an even more vulnerable situation.

Trust and transparency,  the lifeblood of successful DACs.







Offline hasher

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lol, desperation.
this emotional thread so transparent to understand, i think its not about Invictus or Bts project only, its about current cryptoindustry in whole, many analysts alarmists think that in near 2-6 months S&P500 going to collapse very deeply. I mean it would be as bad as  in 2008. That prediction is influence negatively sentiment to BTC/USD rate.
BTC rate/sentiment affect whole cryptos, because altcoins are derivatives of bitcoins.
I think that in near term (1-12 months) prices to all cryptocurrencies awaits down trend, even with superb marketing like in nxt proj.
So...its good year for investments
imho my 2 cents ;)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 03:17:59 pm by hasher »

Offline cm8108@163.com

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Offline rysgc

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First of all if you must remember that these type of posts thrive the value of PTS down so I guess you should ask yourself if YOU really care about PTS. As far as I can remember all your posts have a negative tone and you come up with weird ideas looking for investors or other ways to make some money. And common, if you invested in something that's your problem. You clearly don't care about the community, values and ideas being worked on here so I suggest you'd better go elsewhere.
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Offline markzookerburg

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:)
I see someone who's worried people are beginning to question the bounty system and he's about to lose out on cash behind that LOL.

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The magical land of crypto, no freebies people.

Offline que23

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(Full-disclosure, I jumped ship a short time ago, and I am now on the Ethereum bandwagon.) I personally have no ill-will toward Invictus; I was able to sell my shares without loss. But I do worry about all the friends I made here and who have stayed behind to support this project. I have serious doubts about the management of the project, and the people they've hired who seem to do nothing. I also don't think these single purpose DACs are the way to go. I wish you guys luck though. I really would like to see Bitshares work.
PTS: Pa75dEzGkMcnM85hRMbdKiS1YdF81rnSCF

sumantso

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I agree on a couple of points.

1> Marketing sucks. I have been involved with FTC and especially WDC from the beginning, and the marketing they did was amazing, especially considering it was done by volunteers. In contrast the marketing here is terrible; even more so when you consider that actual money is being paid. Its so bad that I actually thought this might be a deliberate ploy to keep the value down and grab some cheap PTS/AGS.

2> PTS got the raw deal wrt AGS. I can understand why it would be so though, considering AGS is fully I3 profit while PTS is not. With the new license, 3rd party DACs which use the code (which they will unless they try to reinvent the wheel) will honour both AGS and PTS so there is good argument to change AGS to PTS. I guess PTS will end up as 1.2 PTS = 1 AGS.

Would be nice if there were more updates. Bytemater is doing some good work which he can see in the Bitshare thread. If there is an weekly update which shows how much other stuff are being done that will be very nice.

actually AGS is not for I3 profit, this was clearly stated. 0% goes to profit, all the money goes for angel investment in DACs which you will own part of if you buy AGS

Poor choice of words on my part. I meant I3 can utilise the entire AGS fund but only a portion of PTS.

[cynic mode on]I3 can give their own staff over generous payments which in a way is the same as taking profits[/cynic mode off]

Offline Giga

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I agree on a couple of points.

1> Marketing sucks. I have been involved with FTC and especially WDC from the beginning, and the marketing they did was amazing, especially considering it was done by volunteers. In contrast the marketing here is terrible; even more so when you consider that actual money is being paid. Its so bad that I actually thought this might be a deliberate ploy to keep the value down and grab some cheap PTS/AGS.

2> PTS got the raw deal wrt AGS. I can understand why it would be so though, considering AGS is fully I3 profit while PTS is not. With the new license, 3rd party DACs which use the code (which they will unless they try to reinvent the wheel) will honour both AGS and PTS so there is good argument to change AGS to PTS. I guess PTS will end up as 1.2 PTS = 1 AGS.

Would be nice if there were more updates. Bytemater is doing some good work which he can see in the Bitshare thread. If there is an weekly update which shows how much other stuff are being done that will be very nice.

actually AGS is not for I3 profit, this was clearly stated. 0% goes to profit, all the money goes for angel investment in DACs which you will own part of if you buy AGS

Offline markzookerburg

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http://translate.google.com/#auto/en/%E5%93%A5%E4%BB%AC%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E4%BA%BA%E5%90%A7%20%E8%A1%8C%E6%96%87%E5%AE%8C%E5%85%A8%E6%98%AF%E5%90%8C%E8%83%9E%E9%A3%8E%E6%A0%BC%EF%BC%9B%0A%0A%E8%B5%9E%EF%BC%81%20%E9%9C%80%E8%A6%81%E5%BF%AB%E9%A9%AC%E5%8A%A0%E9%9E%AD%E8%AE%A9%E4%BB%96%E4%BB%AC%E5%81%9A%E4%BA%8B


This is what he said
"Dude is the Chinese people it reads entirely compatriots style;

Like! Need to let them work at full speed"



I am glad I could speak out the hidden sentiments of  a lot of people.
I truly hope - Dan and his team takes note and fixes things!

Offline xeroc

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哥们是中国人吧 行文完全是同胞风格;

赞! 需要快马加鞭让他们做事
When quoting english .. could you please also reply in english.. thx

Offline ppcholder

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How about you get off the forum and start focusing solely on work for starters?
How about you allocate a single hour to address users and use the rest for more productive work?
How about we have a public ledger showing how funds are spent?
How about we reconsider the bounty system? (I can personally assist in this)
How about you leave the forum to your great batch of moderators and go ahead with things that actually require your attention?
How about you set deadlines for marketing and development and work towards it?
How about you hire more people instead of giving goddamn bounties?

I sure want to see history being made, but the way you handle things now makes me wonder if you will end up BEING history instead of making it.

哥们是中国人吧 行文完全是同胞风格;

赞! 需要快马加鞭让他们做事

Offline santaclause102

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So for the most part the points the OP made come down to efficiency concerns.
From an entrepreneur's perspective your time/efficiency management has room for improvement, I agree. Labour division is key to efficiency.
1) The guys at nxt have 2 core developers doing nothing else around the cock but code. And 1-3 guys just doing announcements / PR / talking to the community / addressing concerns. Seems very efficient.
Dan, the energy you put in is remarkable! But you take care of every single issue here. This detracts   
2) I think bounties make sense to attract good developers. For tasks that just have to be done there are cheaper ways that also cost you less time, like hiring a professional to design a website or a graphic designer doing the infografik.
 

sumantso

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I agree on a couple of points.

1> Marketing sucks. I have been involved with FTC and especially WDC from the beginning, and the marketing they did was amazing, especially considering it was done by volunteers. In contrast the marketing here is terrible; even more so when you consider that actual money is being paid. Its so bad that I actually thought this might be a deliberate ploy to keep the value down and grab some cheap PTS/AGS.

2> PTS got the raw deal wrt AGS. I can understand why it would be so though, considering AGS is fully I3 profit while PTS is not. With the new license, 3rd party DACs which use the code (which they will unless they try to reinvent the wheel) will honour both AGS and PTS so there is good argument to change AGS to PTS. I guess PTS will end up as 1.2 PTS = 1 AGS.

Would be nice if there were more updates. Bytemater is doing some good work which he can see in the Bitshare thread. If there is an weekly update which shows how much other stuff are being done that will be very nice.

Offline Giga

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Yes it does feel like there isn't enough done to promote protoshares, but i think it's still too early to tell. I agree the amount of funds are enough to launch a massive campaign within a week, but i trust the I3 team in doing the right thing. I've asked bytemaster about these concerns before and he assured us that a strong marketing campaign is in the works, i have faith in the I3 team, we have a huge opportunity here to make history and i am confident we will see big things in the coming weeks.

Personally i promote PTS and AGS wherever i go and to anyone i meet personal or business, this is the least i can do to help promote this innovation and i hope to be able to contribute even more in the future.


Offline onceuponatime

My further contribution to this thread is that I am actively acquiring both protoshares and angelsahres. Thank goodness there are sellers  :)

Offline markzookerburg

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News update : I had contingency plans and by no means am I looking forward to Invictus and its projects to fund my projects. Like stated in the current thread- its very true that I did share sentiments for the company due to its start-up mentality in its beginning days, a little something that has been completely eradicated from its culture lately.

"Hoping probably to make a quick buck" - Like stated in the thread, it was highly likely of me to dump these coins when the time was right around mid of december. I held on because I believed in the vision and the products Invictus was working on, both of which have lately gone haywire.

"Trying to sew dissention and controversy" - You mean openly stating public sentiments and asking questions? Sure, if thats how you see it, so be it -but as a user - just like anyone else with the most minute of interest or holdings in PTS I have my rights to question whats going on. Apologies if it doesnt go well with your policy of kissing ass and appeasing the masses.

I have to admit I am also amazed at the kind of energy Dan has brought to the table, but like stated in the thread- I am not happy with the way he utilizes his energy to do things that can take us forward. If by breakneck speeds -your refer to lack of deadlines, unaccounted expenditure of investor money and pathetic development rates , sure I am wrong. But please do open your eyes to whats going on.


As for your personal choice of me not being involved in this project, let me assure you -its in the last of my "to-do" list to do something for invictus as of now. Partly because they lack the ambition and vision they started off with and partly because they have failed numerous times to hold on to their promises. I did offer a helping hand on friendly terms, with the last of corporate/financial interests. If you can do the same- go ahead! . All am demanding is action and movement - something we greatly lack.



One more thing - If you think 40,000 USD in mining is a big deal, I assure you it isnt. Half of my mining operations are fully funded on corporate perks and other give outs. I really don't lose much. That said - if a cryptocoin garners immense interest in me or shows real potential I can bring a lot more to the table. I am not the only person losing out here. There are other losers out there who put their hard earned money into this. Kick me out of the equation -what about the guys who mined with 2 or 3 pc's and mined a few PTS? Are we doing justice to them?

If any of you have read my thread- I haven't stated anywhere that I want to see pts at X amount in said time -all i have demanded is action and policy revamping. Something - our community should openly welcome, instead of kissing ass and nodding heads to whatever Dan has to offer.

At the end of the day we are all humans and we all err. Unless you come out in the open with what you see wrong and try correcting them - I don't see us being headed where we are meant to be headed towards.

Offline hasher

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I invested 4 days with my entire team (I run a start-up too) , setting up 1000's of servers (close to 4000 for those wondering) and burned around 40000 dollars (not to mention time wasted doing this while I could focus on my start-up instead),  and mined a seizable amount of coins.
i hear its a cry of despair from someone who was too risky, too greedy and wanted to receive fast return on long term investment, that happens all the time with so many people.

well, im not a big investor, and i understand your pain, but hey,
even if you had invested this money into other project you could lose, its always start up risks like anywhere else.
but i agree with you that putting Angelshares in cross with PTS decreasing somehow value of PTS.
But i think its make Bitshares project more "fair" to latecomers, and..its still fair to holders of PTS, because they will receive same (or more) share of project as it was said in initital proposition
imho just my 1 cent
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 07:46:23 am by hasher »

Offline onceuponatime

How about you get off the forum and start focusing solely on work for starters?
How about you allocate a single hour to address users and use the rest for more productive work?
How about we have a public ledger showing how funds are spent?
How about we reconsider the bounty system? (I can personally assist in this)
How about you leave the forum to your great batch of moderators and go ahead with things that actually require your attention?
How about you set deadlines for marketing and development and work towards it?
How about you hire more people instead of giving goddamn bounties?

I sure want to see history being made, but the way you handle things now makes me wonder if you will end up BEING history instead of making it.

As I recall from your earlier posts, you invested time and money into this project that you desperately need for your own project, hoping probably to make a quick buck. This has put you in the unenviable position. But that is your problen - not a reflection on how things are going at Invictus.

I personally am amazed at the boundless energy that Dan is devoting to this, and I am more than pleased with results so far (and yes, I am also a large investor - I just wasn't so unwise as to invest money in a startup that I desperately needed soon for another project.

Trying to sew dissension and controversy to force the pace of a project that is already evolving at breakneck speed is counterproductive to not only my interests and that of other protoshare holders, but to your own.

I personally would not want you involved actively in this project, especially in marketing, because as I said before you have an abrasive personality.


Offline markzookerburg

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How about you get off the forum and start focusing solely on work for starters?
How about you allocate a single hour to address users and use the rest for more productive work?
How about we have a public ledger showing how funds are spent?
How about we reconsider the bounty system? (I can personally assist in this)
How about you leave the forum to your great batch of moderators and go ahead with things that actually require your attention?
How about you set deadlines for marketing and development and work towards it?
How about you hire more people instead of giving goddamn bounties?

I sure want to see history being made, but the way you handle things now makes me wonder if you will end up BEING history instead of making it.

Offline bytemaster

There is a ton of work to do by many players.  I am just one man who has solid ideas and is attempting to realize them.  I am depending upon others to come alongside and make this a reality and we have assembled an amazing team since Vegas.    You may not have seen the work Brian Page has been doing, but believe me, you will be happy in the months a head.


Quote
“No McFly ever amounted to anything in the history of Hill Valley!”
“Yeah, well, history is gonna change.”

« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 06:34:31 am by bytemaster »
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline markzookerburg

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Just so you know

1. There is no public ledger over how funds are being spent. I saw Brian gets 100 pts a week for working with Invictus? Last I checked no start-up founder gets  close to 10k a month in salary unless he's running a bloated company thats headed to a crash

2. None of us find it safe waiting on blind promises when your delivery of keyhotee was half assed with no actual product out just yet. Sure there's been statements that bitshares will come out in July, but what if you do the same thing then?

3. Sure I can have more bitshares, but what if the value of each bitshare is actually much lower than what a PTS is worth now?
 

Offline toast

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Just so you know with this change the percent of bitshares awarded to protoshare holders went up to 50% and bitshares will not be mined
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline markzookerburg

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https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2297.0;topicseen


The chinese share similiar emotions. Open it in chrome to read it in english.

I believe your bounty system was pulled out of a rats ass.
Wonder why?
Here's why.
You are paying exorbitant amounts to industry amateurs to do a half assed job - done over prolonged periods!
Eg: 100 PTS for the infrographic Mktdirector or whatever his name is wants?
 Based on current prices thats 1100 dollars.
I work with some of the best graphic designers in the start-up world and I assure you it costs barely 400-600 dollars for one to be made. You are wasting       500 dollars worth investor money on nothing?
Similiar situations exist over multiple aspects of development too.

P.s - Thank you for correcting me over the MMC thing

Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Very infectious and well stated post! Just a small correction, MMC is not a DAC of 3I, BTS will be the first one.
BTS committee member:jademont

lzr1900

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I do agree with your points 100%!!!!

Offline markzookerburg

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Hey there,

I am one of your early day miners. I have been observing the fiasco going on in this forum for a month and its left me concerned. I have always requested for an active marketing policy and I never saw it happen. So here's some more of my concerns.


I joined in for this "chaos" we are having here somewhere around day 7 or 8 of mining. I read around about you guys and I saw potential. I saw vision,ambition and the desire to do something big. I loved how you guys approached to this as a start-up and found the need to keep things simple/humble. When I first looked at your website I felt sad seeing how pathetic of a show you could put on with it - and could not even focus on the very basics of using a template and explain things better. But oh well this is a "Start-up" and I thought maybe its a small team and they have bigger things to focus on. With 600k in the bank -they might have bigger concerns.


I invested 4 days with my entire team (I run a start-up too) , setting up 1000's of servers (close to 4000 for those wondering) and burned around 40000 dollars (not to mention time wasted doing this while I could focus on my start-up instead),  and mined a seizable amount of coins. Sure I could dump my coins in mid December when coin prices were at a high. But no! I believed in what you guys were doing and stuck around as any reasonable investor would. I looked forward to keyhotee and bitshares and spoke about it to people. As a matter of fact I have also been working on partnerships with different networks for acquiring massive mining hardware, servers and was looking forward to investing another 100,000 in mining operations.

However things had to take a different route as time passed by.
Inspite of requesting you guys to have a proper Marketing plan and actually work on it - I never saw anything good. I had smarter users here ask you permission to market on your side and still the derp who had been hired to market Bitshares and Protoshares never did anything major. In over a month of pressurising you, I have seen nothing in the media about Protoshares , its vision or what it stands for.

Keyhotee was always a huge promise and I loved what it stood for. Sure you have had some minor releases, but where's the actual product? With so much in funding I demand something better and am sure many other users do too.


The only coin honoring PTS we had was Memorycoin and its prices have gone from something to close to nothing. In such an environment where people see only things going downhill don't you think you should ATLEAST release a public statement explaining what your vision for PTS is ?

I know holding on to my protoshares gives me bitshares on the long run, but am being forced to hold on to the PTS even when I want to pull out of this nonsense you are doing due to your incompetence to market your product properly or figure economics properly.
Angelshares is killing Protoshares. You are doing injustice to your early day investors and keeping them blinded with long term promises.
I know building something like BTS requires funding. But you guys are getting 100k every goddamn day!
Why in the world can't you hire a better agency to build great websites and have actual agencies handle your PR?

To sum it up - I'd like to keep my "opinions" on what you're doing with the following observations


1. You clearly dont give  a fuck about PTS
2. You clearly don't have a clue about marketing -and are not willing to be open to users willing to help
3. You can't accept innovation from users here (Eg: Trade platform thread -being bashed upon)
4. You are about to start partying excessively with all the new funding
5. Development is probably the last on your list now - because I can't imagine why in the world would something take so long to build up when there's so much in funding


Anyone who's been reasonably involved with a start-up would know how companies start-off with 20k, deliver on their promises first and then scale up.
You guys are sitting atop 600k + million by the end of this month and still haven't delivered anything big.


So to the team at Invictus
Please get your act together and put on a good show instead of wasting people's time

Regards
Mark
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 05:50:22 am by markzookerburg »