Author Topic: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)  (Read 8375 times)

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Offline 5chdn

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2014, 10:35:53 pm »
I am also worried, but the earning in ypool is indeed the best, for which people can't resist. By the way, the fee of Ypool has been reduced to 5%
Sorry but: lies :)

Its one of the most distributed myths in here. Ypool payouts are intransparent and low. Tell me, how much value has a share at ypool?  ;D

Only the owner knows ... ;)

Offline mav2000

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2014, 09:11:12 am »
So taking the suggestion of some of the guys on this thread, I started using 1Gh. But the payouts so far seem to be far lower than what I was making at ypool. I admit its only been a couple of hours since I started, but on an avergae I get around .4-.5 pts a day, so I am going to run it for a day and see where it goes. At this point at 6 hours in I am looking at barely anything. .0035. At this rate, its not going to work out to what I normally get.

So there has to be more to it than what we see. Maybe I should try beeeeer as well.

Offline bitminer9000

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2014, 01:09:09 pm »

i disagree, pariah, responsible pools close down registrations at a certain hashrate.

Yep, ypool should of done something along time ago. It's one thing to be lazy and let it get to the point where it is 50%+. But to not do anything once the issue has occurred is a slap in the face to the community IMHO.

Offline r05

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2014, 01:15:38 pm »

i disagree, pariah, responsible pools close down registrations at a certain hashrate.

Yep, ypool should of done something along time ago. It's one thing to be lazy and let it get to the point where it is 50%+. But to not do anything once the issue has occurred is a slap in the face to the community IMHO.
Interesting how none of the staff of ypool have posted on this forum or if they have, haven't commented on this thread. Kinda makes me think they don't care for the network, but rather just care for their wallets..
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Offline Isaaaaah

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2014, 01:43:40 pm »
so, stating the brutal truth, whats left to do, other than to abandon pts and move on? If the other pools shut down and drive ypools miningshare to 100%, maybe they let go if there is no more value in pts for them...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 01:49:31 pm by Isaaaaah »
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Offline reorder

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2014, 02:11:20 pm »
The problem is, there is no punishment to having 100% hashrate - noone will jump the ship, nor the value will fall until they violate the rules and do something stupid like attempting double-spend. That is, until they get hacked, and that will be the real disaster.

Offline springlh

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2014, 02:37:14 pm »
hmm... I don't like ypool... for its scary poolfee... the 1PTS minimum payout is the only reason stopping me moving back to ptspool.... shame..... will have to mine 2-3 days in ypool to save my 0.7 PTS....
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Offline r05

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2014, 02:41:29 pm »
so, stating the brutal truth, whats left to do, other than to abandon pts and move on? If the other pools shut down and drive ypools miningshare to 100%, maybe they let go if there is no more value in pts for them...
I don't think the other pools are going to shutdown just to give in to ypool and hope they loose interest... That's the equivalent to letting the school bully beat the shit out of you because you hope he'll get bored and stop soon.. :P

I don't think any of the pools have that defeatist mentality, not quite ;) But an alternative - there is none not really. ypool should have closed its doors like BTC and LTC pools do when they neared 51% but they didn't, they carried on. We can only encourage miners to opt for the other pools - provide lower incentives such as lower tax rates and - I can't believe I'm saying it - limit optimized miners to the pools their developers support.
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Offline jh00

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 06:11:38 pm »
a responsible pool would close down registrations at a hashrate of >30% of the network rate.

since they dont care for more than 2 months now i guess they are just greedy knocking of fees.

...

This sucks for ypool because it's not ypool's fault that everybody's flocking to it, but I guess it doesn't suck too much because they are raking in the fees.

i disagree, pariah, responsible pools close down registrations at a certain hashrate.
I can understand that people are worried about the 51% attack issue, but as you said it has been this way for months now and nobody cared. We did not attempt an attack and I honestly have to be insane to even try any kind of attack, as it will drive down the price and therefore also kill our earnings. It's like shooting myself in the foot. But yeah, I understand that trust alone is not good enough.

Actually there is a little anecdote about this. When we reached ~50% of the Primecoin network a few months ago I was really worried people would abandon the pool and flood the internet with anti-ypool messages. To counter this I added standalone Solomining support(see commit) to the most used ypool miner and announced it on our chat and in the peercointalk forum. Surprisingly, hardly anyone cared and the hashrate continued to go up. To this day I doubt the network hashrate by the solominer ever exceeded 2%.

I have discussed closing the pool when nearing 50% hashrate with several people already, but it will lock out only new miners. Nearly every Primecoin or Protoshares miner has an account on ypool already. It wouldn't really affect the hashrate. One thing I have planned however, is to put up an clearly visible warning sign when the pool reaches at least 30-40% of the network. It will link to a page with detailed explanation of 51% attack and what affect it can have on the reputation and price of the coin. Everybody is then free to decide if he will risk it or leave the pool.

On the long term I want to release a miner (open source of course) that will also connect to the coin network and retrieve work information from there. This way it is guaranteed that the pool cannot execute a 51% attack since it is based on withholding/manipulating blocks.

do you really believe the fee is only 6%? ;)
who did the math? ;D
Obviously you didn't. You are moderator on this board and it's a shame to see you spreading rumors.

On a side note we lowered the fee to 5% a few days ago. That is still a lot, I know. But the high fee is one of the things that stop the pool from having 100% of the hashrate.. so it's good for the network, don't you agree?

The problem is, there is no punishment to having 100% hashrate - noone will jump the ship, nor the value will fall until they violate the rules and do something stupid like attempting double-spend. That is, until they get hacked, and that will be the real disaster.
It's not that easy, really. How do you think it works? You gain access to the pool server in whatever way and then you just press the big red button? We don't even have standard wallets running and there is no source to be modified or anything. All the attacker will see are just some weird applications running with strange debug output, every intruder will be happy if he is even able to steal some coins.. but even that is not as trivial as you might think. Not on ypool at least.

Did a 51% attack by a large pool ever happen? Not that I remember.. for very good reasons.

Interesting how none of the staff of ypool have posted on this forum or if they have, haven't commented on this thread. Kinda makes me think they don't care for the network, but rather just care for their wallets..
I don't scavenge all forums daily for new posts. I also kind of lost interest to post anything here.. all I get is permanent bashing from the Protoshares staff. I said it once and I will repeat it again, I am happy to cooperate and answer any concerns, but usually all I can find here is ypool-sucks mentality.

Offline pvp1982

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 07:57:49 pm »
Great post by jh00

Offline bytemaster

Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 08:03:18 pm »
There is no problem with ypool having 70% of the hash power because they are very limited in what they can do with that hash power.  They can do a Denial of Service or they can attempt a double spend... however, they cannot get away with a double spend because they would have to steal their customers hash power which could not be done in secret. 

This reality is why we can eliminate mining.  If ypool simply signed every block the situation would be the same as it is today.  They could do no more harm nor could they perform a double spend attack.   

Consider this a case study in the reality that the 51% attack is not really a concern.
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Offline reorder

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2014, 09:15:23 pm »
There is no problem with ypool having 70% of the hash power because they are very limited in what they can do with that hash power.  They can do a Denial of Service or they can attempt a double spend... however, they cannot get away with a double spend because they would have to steal their customers hash power which could not be done in secret. 

This reality is why we can eliminate mining.  If ypool simply signed every block the situation would be the same as it is today.  They could do no more harm nor could they perform a double spend attack.   

Consider this a case study in the reality that the 51% attack is not really a concern.
Or they can get hacked and someone else will double-spend all our money.

Offline reorder

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2014, 09:35:14 pm »
It's not that easy, really. How do you think it works? You gain access to the pool server in whatever way and then you just press the big red button? We don't even have standard wallets running and there is no source to be modified or anything. All the attacker will see are just some weird applications running with strange debug output, every intruder will be happy if he is even able to steal some coins.. but even that is not as trivial as you might think. Not on ypool at least.

Security through obscurity is no security.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2014, 10:03:44 pm »
There is no problem with ypool having 70% of the hash power because they are very limited in what they can do with that hash power.  They can do a Denial of Service or they can attempt a double spend... however, they cannot get away with a double spend because they would have to steal their customers hash power which could not be done in secret. 

This reality is why we can eliminate mining.  If ypool simply signed every block the situation would be the same as it is today.  They could do no more harm nor could they perform a double spend attack.   

Consider this a case study in the reality that the 51% attack is not really a concern.
Or they can get hacked and someone else will double-spend all our money.

No one can double spend *YOUR* money except you. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Isaaaaah

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2014, 10:30:57 pm »
Alright. All go for ypool then. Wont get any PTS anywhere else...
srsly wtf... Decentralization?
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