Author Topic: conditional payment feature?  (Read 16671 times)

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Offline CoinHoarder

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Bitbay and OpenBazaar have both implemented marketplace features. It is worth taking a look at their implementations.

Seems pretty straightforward... leverage reputation-based escrow agents with simple 2 of 3 multisig addresses.

I think if you're adding this feature, then you might as well implement a full-on decentralized market for goods, services, or cryptos/fiat.

It will require a minimal amount of extra effort to make a fully featured decentralized marketplace (compared to just adding a marketplace for crypto/fiat transactions).

« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 11:02:16 pm by CoinHoarder »
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Offline abit

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IMHO, an escrow feature only makes sense if you allow other "conditions" to withdraw from an escrow balance.
Pretty much like what is needed for atomic cross chain swaps, where you have to provide a "secret" to claim funds.
That secret could be a signature, or could be a password, or, if you want, a mathematical condition that needs to be met (think, POW)
I'd like to have this feature to be compatible with the needs for interledger.org. That would enable quite some usecaes if you ask me.

Anyone up for creating the specs for it?
I don't think that secrets need to be submitted online, that would greatly limit usage of the feature.

Just had another glance on InterLedger, I think it's for solve other issues, but not this one.
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Offline xeroc

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IMHO, an escrow feature only makes sense if you allow other "conditions" to withdraw from an escrow balance.
Pretty much like what is needed for atomic cross chain swaps, where you have to provide a "secret" to claim funds.
That secret could be a signature, or could be a password, or, if you want, a mathematical condition that needs to be met (think, POW)
I'd like to have this feature to be compatible with the needs for interledger.org. That would enable quite some usecaes if you ask me.

Anyone up for creating the specs for it?

Offline abit

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It should be noted that escrow is already possible by using a dedicated account for each escrow operation (such accounts can be re-used for subsequent escrows).
Correct.
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Offline pc

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It should be noted that escrow is already possible by using a dedicated account for each escrow operation (such accounts can be re-used for subsequent escrows).
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline abit

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This feature is very powerful to run web site like LocalBitcoin and localEthereum. After some research, I found that there is Escrow Operations code in STEEM, another graphene project. Perhaps core developers can look into this.

1. Add Escrow Operations in STEEM by BM
https://github.com/steemit/steem/issues/143
https://steemit.com/sip/@dan/escrow-sip-steem-improvement-proposal

2. Open Source STEEM Escrow GUI
https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@reazuliqbal/opensource-steem-escrow-gui
https://steemit.com/escrow/@xtar/open-source-standalone-gui-for-steem-escrow-transactions
Yes, I'm aware of this.

In regards to porting, we need to do step by step:
* finish the BSIP document https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/44
* get the BSIP approved by BTS holders (stake-based voting)
* arrange dev resources

Contributions are always appreciated.
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Offline Bangzi

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This feature is very powerful to run web site like LocalBitcoin and localEthereum. After some research, I found that there is Escrow Operations code in STEEM, another graphene project. Perhaps core developers can look into this.

1. Add Escrow Operations in STEEM by BM
https://github.com/steemit/steem/issues/143
https://steemit.com/sip/@dan/escrow-sip-steem-improvement-proposal

2. Open Source STEEM Escrow GUI
https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@reazuliqbal/opensource-steem-escrow-gui
https://steemit.com/escrow/@xtar/open-source-standalone-gui-for-steem-escrow-transactions

Bitshares DEX - Over 1000 Coins, Buy, Sell, Transfer & List Any Coins |Free Signup Today: https://wallet.bitshares.org/?r=bangzi

Offline nmywn

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@yvv in trollbox, yes. You can send transactions. Could query market orders too. This could work like console actually.

Offline yvv

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Checkout how byteball dev organized OTC trading for blackbytes. Blackbyte is a private token, which is not tracked in public ledger, only a hash of transaction is submitted to prevent double spend. Long story short, this is implemented the way which makes it impossible to trade blackbytes on BTC exchanges without modification of their code. So, the dev created a slack channel (https://byteball.slack.com/messages/trading_blackbyte, get invite at http://slack.byteball.org) with a chat bot, which allows users to place and query offers right in chat interface. There are also escrow guys who help to conduct trades. Simple and functional. Looks like a perfect scheme for OTC trading between fiat and bitFiat. Can something like this be implemented in bitshares client?

Offline nmywn

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"e-screw" account: 3of5 multisig group
e-screw selling ESCREW.CNY UIA against bitCNY.

 If I want to withdraw bitCNY,   i'll convert  them to ESCREW.CNY on the market.
 Next i must send memo to  e-screw: "withdraw [my bank account number]"
 
This should trigger some e-screw's action:
 Forbid me from transfers and trades ESCREW.CNY (conditional payment delivered).
 Check how much i got to withdraw.
 Create virtual order book on the outside webpage, for example "1000 bitCNY 'somerandomstring'
 Now first guy who'll send 'somerandomstring' memo, should receive [my bank account number] back and is obligated to pay 1000 CNY to me.
 
 When I receive money on my bank account, i must send another memo "confirm". Then my ESCREW.CNY must go back to issuer and my account is whitelisted again.
 
This way you don't need to touch CNY at all. I can confirm  transaction without actually being part of multisig group.

However Buyer can be asshole and lock those virtual orders, without intention to buy anything.

However Seller can be asshole too, then Buyer must provide proof of bank transaction.

Good news: you can be asshole only once per account.

Offline bitcrab

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agreed, escrow should be implemented asap, not sure how much work that would be.
You could do that today using a 2-of-3 account .. ideally a service would offer this for a profit and recycle old used and completed escrow accounts instead of registering a new one

yes, currently it is possible to do that using a 2-of-3 account, however this need to create a 2-of-3 account for each buyer-seller-escrow group, we need much better user experience.

and we need to develop that asap, with this feature, BTS will be an global off-site BTC market...so attractive!
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Offline xeroc

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agreed, escrow should be implemented asap, not sure how much work that would be.
You could do that today using a 2-of-3 account .. ideally a service would offer this for a profit and recycle old used and completed escrow accounts instead of registering a new one

Offline fav

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agreed, escrow should be implemented asap, not sure how much work that would be.

Offline merivercap

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This is a typical escrow service, which I thought was built into BitShares 2.0 now. Escrow always requires trust in a 3rd party (the escrow agent) which may not be acceptable to some. Companies such as transwiser would be ideal candidates to serve as that trusted 3rd party for those in the east.

I'm fuzzy on the details, but IIRC an escrow type service could be setup by transwiser for each escrow transaction. Once deposit into that account is made in full transwiser changes permission to lock out access until depositor signals the recipient has completed the agreed contract, then transwiser opens permissions to recipient to transfer funds.

It's not ideal, and may in fact not even be feasible due to overhead, time etc.

I don't know if there are other solutions for escrow services or not. I believe the ability to setup "supervisor" accounts or accounts with hierarchical permissions were implemented as a "corporate" feature, not an escrow facility.

This is an area we need documentation to describe, if it hasn't been.

I feel there are some misunderstanding, in my imagination,  in most of the cases escrow is just "included" as a standby judge for  possible dispute, in more than 95% of the trades there will be no dispute and the escrow need to do nothing, only when dispute happen, the trading parties will be called to judge the dispute.

I feel BTS can go into off-site BTC trading business by providing this "conditional payment" feature, yes this is just a feature and the escrow inside provide service and escrows will charge service fee when they are called to judge.

 

What you described is a standard escrow service.  Only 2 of 3 parties needs to agree so as long as the buyer and seller agree you don't need the judge, and that will happen 95% of the time. The buyer & seller just confirms on their sides.  Only when one party disputes, the judge is necessary. 

I'm actually working on a simple peer-2-peer gateway based on ratings & trust, but this is mainly for small amounts.  For larger amounts I do think escrows will be essential. 

It was planned a while back, but never implemented.  An escrow feature is one of the most immediate features we should implement.   I agree with you @bitcrab and would fully support this proposal. 
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Offline bitcrab

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This is a typical escrow service, which I thought was built into BitShares 2.0 now. Escrow always requires trust in a 3rd party (the escrow agent) which may not be acceptable to some. Companies such as transwiser would be ideal candidates to serve as that trusted 3rd party for those in the east.

I'm fuzzy on the details, but IIRC an escrow type service could be setup by transwiser for each escrow transaction. Once deposit into that account is made in full transwiser changes permission to lock out access until depositor signals the recipient has completed the agreed contract, then transwiser opens permissions to recipient to transfer funds.

It's not ideal, and may in fact not even be feasible due to overhead, time etc.

I don't know if there are other solutions for escrow services or not. I believe the ability to setup "supervisor" accounts or accounts with hierarchical permissions were implemented as a "corporate" feature, not an escrow facility.

This is an area we need documentation to describe, if it hasn't been.

I feel there are some misunderstanding, in my imagination,  in most of the cases escrow is just "included" as a standby judge for  possible dispute, in more than 95% of the trades there will be no dispute and the escrow need to do nothing, only when dispute happen, the trading parties will be called to judge the dispute.

I feel BTS can go into off-site BTC trading business by providing this "conditional payment" feature, yes this is just a feature and the escrow inside provide service and escrows will charge service fee when they are called to judge.

   
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