Adjusting how bitshares fees get distributed.

[worldtraders]

Hello guys Im following long ago and proud of the work done. From my experience (7 years at Nasdaq) I would like to express some tips for the success from my opinion.
1) Reward with little fee to all network is necesary otherwise issuers will just leave, in that case there is no incentive to encourage investors at BTS.
2) The more tokens/rate created the higher the price should be for creating a new token. Otherwise someone can benefit of having many markets at time. They can create them but they should pay just more (couse they will benefit about). Otherwise reward fees for the network will dry.
3) You never ever would have people involve if there is not a way for markets for going up. Where can it come, from networks fees (depending of issuer). If I can rise bid, or hit offers in my own market people will come. If asked price is very high I can set up low prices but sooner or later I will be able to hit customer offers if there is a way where liquidity comes to me as issuer -> reward fees.

Wich is the way fees should be deployed to issuers? Well from my opinion (and this is very personal) you can make for segments, or even just all each month.. Whatever for atract customers, wich will atract issuers and will pay higher price for token creation wich are money for all. I dont know what is the amount of fee colected, but even if those are lets say 10$ month divid all and give anything to issuers.

This all I say doesnt takes into account maintenance costs, well lets say 50% reward for maintenance. I tryied a market here long ago (CRYPTOINDEX). No matter what an issuer make if all the money comes from him. I respect ICOs to start with but I think a solution is needed for issuers.  There were a time where people came more and more when markets had liquidity. Sooner or later DEX will aware of this.

Well, sorry for my spelling. Hope it helps.

[KenMonkey]

The "reserve pool" is the equivalent of bitcoin's 5 million unreleased bitcoin. Except, we don't have to release the full amount if the stakeholders don't want to.

Despite the huge stockpile of resources the reserve pool has, the graph says it all, that ultimately the path we're on isn't sustainable. We need to make that graph go up (or ideally stay flat, with increases going back to shareholders as dividends).

The question in my mind now is how the hell did the reserve pool get so big in the first place? There is no ramp from 0 going up? Did it start high b/c of some initial injection? Where did that come from and who provided it?

[JonnyB]

How about other options like:

Current fee allocation:               Proposed new fee allocation:
20% -- network                            20% -- network
80% -- referral                              70% -- referral
                                                      10% -- Dividend to ALL users (exchanges - question mark)

If the value of BTS goes up, we should be able to scale back on the witness/worker pay thus boosting the reserve pool.

A business should not pay any dividends until it is profitable. We should first make whatever is necessary to make the chart in http://cryptofresh.com/reserve go upwards

Thank you for that link @paliboy, I was hoping such a thing existed.

Despite the huge stockpile of resources the reserve pool has, the graph says it all, that ultimately the path we're on isn't sustainable. We need to make that graph go up (or ideally stay flat, with increases going back to shareholders as dividends).

The question in my mind now is how the hell did the reserve pool get so big in the first place? There is no ramp from 0 going up? Did it start high b/c of some initial injection? Where did that come from and who provided it?

It was just created big in the first place and has been steadily going down ever since.

[Thom]

How about other options like:

Current fee allocation:               Proposed new fee allocation:
20% -- network                            20% -- network
80% -- referral                              70% -- referral
                                                      10% -- Dividend to ALL users (exchanges - question mark)

If the value of BTS goes up, we should be able to scale back on the witness/worker pay thus boosting the reserve pool.

A business should not pay any dividends until it is profitable. We should first make whatever is necessary to make the chart in http://cryptofresh.com/reserve go upwards

Thank you for that link @paliboy, I was hoping such a thing existed.

Despite the huge stockpile of resources the reserve pool has, the graph says it all, that ultimately the path we're on isn't sustainable. We need to make that graph go up (or ideally stay flat, with increases going back to shareholders as dividends).

The question in my mind now is how the hell did the reserve pool get so big in the first place? There is no ramp from 0 going up? Did it start high b/c of some initial injection? Where did that come from and who provided it?

[Thom]

How about other options like:

Current fee allocation:               Proposed new fee allocation:
20% -- network                            20% -- network
80% -- referral                              70% -- referral
                                                      10% -- Dividend to ALL users (exchanges - question mark)

If the value of BTS goes up, we should be able to scale back on the witness/worker pay thus boosting the reserve pool.

Paying dividends and reducing supply is essentially the same (from economical pov) ..

I agree, but NOT from a marketing standpoint. Burning fees is deflationary and helps everyone, but dividends go directly in my account. This principle is why people don't blame the gubermnt for inflation, they blame businesses for increasing the cost of products.

This is very important!

[xeroc]

How about other options like:

Current fee allocation:               Proposed new fee allocation:
20% -- network                            20% -- network
80% -- referral                              70% -- referral
                                                      10% -- Dividend to ALL users (exchanges - question mark)

If the value of BTS goes up, we should be able to scale back on the witness/worker pay thus boosting the reserve pool.

Paying dividends and reducing supply is essentially the same (from economical pov) ..

[paliboy]

How about other options like:

Current fee allocation:               Proposed new fee allocation:
20% -- network                            20% -- network
80% -- referral                              70% -- referral
                                                      10% -- Dividend to ALL users (exchanges - question mark)

If the value of BTS goes up, we should be able to scale back on the witness/worker pay thus boosting the reserve pool.

A business should not pay any dividends until it is profitable. We should first make whatever is necessary to make the chart in http://cryptofresh.com/reserve go upwards

[sahkan]

How about other options like:

Current fee allocation:               Proposed new fee allocation:
20% -- network                            20% -- network
80% -- referral                              70% -- referral
                                                      10% -- Dividend to ALL users (exchanges - question mark)

If the value of BTS goes up, we should be able to scale back on the witness/worker pay thus boosting the reserve pool.

[Geneko]

I agree with OP that proposition should be plain simple.

means existing businesses (OL/Blockpay/etc) lose 30% of income stream and get nothing in return.

sounds like a great idea to drive them away, then we can watch grass grow here, because bitshares will be dead for good

If this is true then Bitshares doesn't exist anyway. It only serves as entertainment playground for its share holders. If you think Ronny and Co already control Bitshares then there is only one thing we could do about it. Dump all shares and let them have their business.

[yvv]

When a sane company makes a referral program, they give away a fraction of a fraction of their profit, which they would not have without referral. Giving away 80% of the whole revenue is S T U P I D.

Making arrangements which makes you liable for a life time is also stupid. In RL, a company makes a lifetime contract only when they know, that their counter party will not be able to follow this contract for long. They always have a condition which releases them from liability.

Ok, it is absolutely essential that registering a new account is free and painless process, and those who help to make it like this should be rewarded. Compensate them whatever they spent to register a new user from user fees, give xx% on top of that (if they brought a valuable customer), but finally there should be a condition when the deal is done, and 100% of customer's fees should go to the pot since then.

[Methodise]

Let Ronny have his input.

The way I see it, the referral system is absolutely wonderful and should not be undermined. The idea that 50% going to the network rather than 20% meaning a larger network take in absolute terms is spurious. If that juicy 80% entices more of us to recruit new users, then the network's 20% will be be a bigger number; a relatively small slice of an immense pie is more pie than half a nano pie.

Some sleazy businesses like Plus500 spend hundreds of dollars for each new user they recruit. If Ronny or I are going to spend $500 to recruit 10 new bitshares users, we'll both want to be personally remunerated for that private marketing spend, as a prerequisite for having that marketing budget in the first place.

If people want to pay yield to bitAssets, and the reserve pool is heaving with spare BTS, then you could simply pay the yield using that, for as long as it lasts. Of course, that would then drive fear of holding BTS. However, I do wonder if this billion BTS in reserve might be too large a number in itself to give much confidence to BTS longs.

[fav]

means existing businesses (OL/Blockpay/etc) lose 30% of income stream and get nothing in return.

sounds like a great idea to drive them away, then we can watch grass grow here, because bitshares will be dead for good

@fav you already said in the other thread you would approve referrals being reduced to 60% so I don't know what you're on about?

even more, but for dividends in return.

[yvv]

The problem is that bitshares devs made a really retarded contract with referrals, which can not be backed off without losing trust to whole system. One way out of this situation could be to leave this contract as it is to those who already have it, but stop selling new retarded contracts.

[JonnyB]

means existing businesses (OL/Blockpay/etc) lose 30% of income stream and get nothing in return.

sounds like a great idea to drive them away, then we can watch grass grow here, because bitshares will be dead for good

@fav you already said in the other thread you would approve referrals being reduced to 60% so I don't know what you're on about?

[R]

means existing businesses (OL/Blockpay/etc) lose 30% of income stream and get nothing in return.

sounds like a great idea to drive them away, then we can watch grass grow here, because bitshares will be dead for good

This is true.. perhaps it'd be best to make the change to fee distribution once integration of the dividends mechanism is underway?