Author Topic: BlockPay in Serious Trouble  (Read 47173 times)

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Offline Thom

Great post @Thom.

RE: Accepting the 'no comment' response - what are we to do? Derail the Bitshares hangout like a broken record repetitively getting the same 'no comment' response? We had other important things to discuss (such as the stealth chat then the beyondbitcoin hangout).

RE: Lack of interest - Don't get me wrong, there's certainly a lot of interest in this however hangouts are not court sessions and as above there's zero further info from Chris for us to work with. As an investor I'm disappointed in the workplace ethics that Chris is currently promoting (withholding dev pay for proj-mgt quarrel) and am mildly annoyed that the deliverables such as the new smartwallet have been delayed because of Chris' actions.

I've removed my proxy vote in Chris, I'd advise others to do so.

Thank you @custominer for your support and concern of this matter.

To answer your question, what should you do, I would simply say - ask questions, apply pressure so the message is loud and clear aggression is not tolerated. Asking for information is the way you challenge authority. We ALL make mistakes and we ALL should be willing to hear about them from others when we do. None of us like to be challenged when we think we are right but it is healthy and with the right attitude towards criticism it will only help us to improve. Keeping evil at bay is a constant struggle in life, and to believe it can be forever vanquished is just an illusion. Constant vigilance and rational questioning are the only defense against those that wish to hide their actions to gain control over others.   

So I thank you for challenging me on the 2 points you raised above.

RE - "disrupting" mumble. My goal in challenging chris4210 was NOT to disrupt the mumble. In fact, it wasn't until 40 minutes into it this discussion occurred. With such an important issue we shouldn't restrict the discussion, and Friday mumble is the perfect venue to make people aware of what is going on. On that note mission accomplished. If that means some topics aren't discussed this week so be it. 1 hour is obviously not enough time to cover everything. I will admit it might have been better had onceupoonatime posted in the beyondbitcoin steemit article that fuzzy publishes each week to officially get on the bbc agenda, but that was addressed in the opening moments when chris / fuzzy asked the audience if other topics should be added to the agenda. So the discussion of stealth was introduced properly and acknowledged as an agenda item that way.

RE - the lack of community interest. I simply don't see many people even willing to ask questions about this mess. @pc in the forum actually said it's not good to make this public. ALL IT TAKES FOR EVIL TO PROSPER IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING. If this were happening to you wouldn't you want the truth to be known? Those wanting to do evil thrive in the darkness of secrecy and it's important to shine a light of truth on them to expose them. How hard can it be to ask a question?

The crypto space is a mixture of many people of many perspectives, some volunteerists, some statists, some are just here to make money and don't care about philosophy or the overall CORE reason this ecosystem was created which is to CREATE AN ALTERNATIVE to corrupt, centrally controlled institutions that do not help lift people up but instead only wish to exploit them. Those types are oligarchical, tend to favor socialism, and exploitive.  The question is, will this community allow THIS ecosystem to become corrupted by the same influences that corrupted the status-quo institutions people are fleeing from.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline R

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Great post @Thom.

RE: Accepting the 'no comment' response - what are we to do? Derail the Bitshares hangout like a broken record repetitively getting the same 'no comment' response? We had other important things to discuss (such as the stealth chat then the beyondbitcoin hangout).

RE: Lack of interest - Don't get me wrong, there's certainly a lot of interest in this however hangouts are not court sessions and as above there's zero further info from Chris for us to work with. As an investor I'm disappointed in the workplace ethics that Chris is currently promoting (withholding dev pay for proj-mgt quarrel) and am mildly annoyed that the deliverables such as the new smartwallet have been delayed because of Chris' actions.

I've removed my proxy vote in Chris, I'd advise others to do so.

Offline llildur

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I think the solution here is obvious... Time to remove Chris from the equation and redistribute a new blockpay token without Chris.  Ken can do this by creating a new token... Whatever value blockpay had has been destroyed by Chris for what seems no good reason.

I would trust ken, the man who I bought the OPENPOS token from and has shown me real results, over some scammer kid who's Daddy is a lawyer
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Offline fluxer555

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I think the solution here is obvious... Time to remove Chris from the equation and redistribute a new blockpay token without Chris.  Ken can do this by creating a new token... Whatever value blockpay had has been destroyed by Chris for what seems no good reason.

I would trust ken, the man who I bought the OPENPOS token from and has shown me real results, over some scammer kid who's Daddy is a lawyer

Are you suggesting to screw over all BLOCKPAY holders? Or are you talking about some kind of sharedrop minus Chris? If that's the case, watch Chris' account for any movement... Can anyone else smell the karmic irony?

Offline lil_jay890

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I think the solution here is obvious... Time to remove Chris from the equation and redistribute a new blockpay token without Chris.  Ken can do this by creating a new token... Whatever value blockpay had has been destroyed by Chris for what seems no good reason.

I would trust ken, the man who I bought the OPENPOS token from and has shown me real results, over some scammer kid who's Daddy is a lawyer

Offline Thom

I got tired of wondering what's going on with stealth, so I asked @kenCode what the deal is and he said his team resumed work on it some time ago and the public testnet is probably less than a month away.  That was really great to hear! 

Not to mention, apparently libsnark has been replaced by Confidential Assets (CA).  This is fantastic because with CA, transactions are much faster than with libsnark (which apparently slow down transactions by at least 40 seconds).  Also, with CA there is no "trusted setup" issue like zcash and other libsnark implementations have.  Anyone who has followed the "trusted setup" controversy even a little bit knows that it's a big deal.  So this is a very positive development for Bitshares!

https://blockstream.com/2017/04/03/blockstream-releases-elements-confidential-assets.html

Quoted the entire thing because it's that important. Also is it time for a happy dance or do I need to reel myself in?

Why would blockpay, Ken, Chris, and whoever else is in charge over their leave investors completely in the dark about this?  They missed out at a massive opportunity to increase the value of the blockpay token... @Chris4210 mentioned in a previous mumble that the purpose of the blockpay token may be changing, what is the status with that?

While it's good to hear that Ken is still working on this, Blockpay investors shouldn't have to hear this "through the grapevine".

Why are shareholders being left in the dark? THAT is a VERY important question. I totally agree, they shouldn't be. In a mumble several weeks ago chris4210 claimed kencode did not have an agreement with his devs concerning the ownership of the IP their code represents. That was a serious allegation, and one I found difficult to believe as kencode has been a businessman who managed open source software projects in the past. Ken personally assured me he DOES have such agreements in place. The fact that kencode has control of the code repository of that IP which chris has been trying to obtain is strong evidence (not proof) of that.

I have been in contact with onceuponatime throughout this mess, who as you may know has been the original investor the FBA that STEALTH was to become the first implementation of. He has also been working very hard to resolve the issues between ken & chris, including asking @Stan to mediate the dispute (who did agree to do so) rather than involve attorneys. It is not surprising to me that Chris rejected that offer being the son of a rather high ranking attorney. By high ranking I mean has a Phd in jurisprudence or something along those lines, not just a typical Bachelors or Masters graduate.

I have also been in contact with kencode directly for at least a couple of weeks who has kept me informed. I was one of the parties onceuponatime chose to oversee the stealth FBA once it became operational, and he awarded me a block of those tokens to do so. So yes, for full disclosure I too have a direct vested interest in this matter. If you were present in mumble today you noticed both kencode and chris4210 were present, as were onceuponatime and myself. When chris was asked if the devs who are working on stealth for BitShares Munich under ken's management were being paid or not (a simple yes or no question), chris4210 declined to answer with anything other than "No comment". The community had the perfect opportunity to ask any of us questions but there didn't appear to be much interest in doing so. Why do you so readily accept a "No comment" response? Have politicians conditioned you so well that you no longer will hold anyone accountable to what they agree to do?

Ken had a broken mic (this is not a new problem for ken. It's just not a priority to spend money or time to fix) but assured everyone present via the mumble chat those devs have NOT been paid. I don't know about you but I put far more credibility in an affirmative answer directly from the dev's manager than a "No comment" from the accounting department (i.e. chris4210). In addition chris4210 has not accounted for the 50% pay that was agreed to by BitShares Munich to supplement the worker proposal. Has he kept that for himself? Why has he not paid that which he agreed to pay? That represents a violation of the worker proposal chris4210 published before it was approved to sweeten the deal to shareholders. Chris4210's remark in mumble several weeks ago concerning a reissue of a different BlockPay token are pretty strong evidence of a hostile takeover attempt. He is not being transparent in the least and it saddens me this community does not DEMAND accountability. It smells of THEFT to me, but that is just my opinion. For all who know about the NAP, THEFT IS A FORM OF AGGRESSION and I hate to see it infiltrate BitShares Munich, BlockPay and if it turns out to be true the BitShares committee as well by anyone that uses AGGRESSION.

This dispute arose shortly after ken turned over responsibility of accounting/payroll to chris4210, adding to chris4210's role of marketing. Ken trusted chris and it allowed ken to focus on development. He felt confident his 51% ownership in BitShares Munich protected him from loosing control of the company he worked so hard to create. It's important to note that ken has NOT relinquished control of his majority shareholder position. To this day that remains 49% chris4210 51% kencode. Ken sent me a copy of the document they both signed before it was posted on steemit. I may have been misinformed earlier when I said chris4210 gave some portion of his 49% to ridrigo to manage the marketing in South America / Mexico. That isn't important anyway. According to kencode, Rodrigo and Chris got into a heated dispute and Rodrigo emphatically told Chris to knock off the bullshit and stop trying to do an end run around ken by contacting his devs and requesting them to report to chris4210 rather than kencode. According to kencode his devs are not listening to chris4210 and remain loyal to him which is very apparent since they continue to work on stealth due to onceuponatime's continued generosity to fund their work.

Frankly this whole matter is very disturbing to me. I am also disturbed by this community's lack of interest in getting to the bottom of this. People seem to want to turn their heads and ignore the ugliness of what seems very clear to me is a hostile take over and coercion to gain control away from the rightful owner by withholding payments. Do you people have such lack of discernment that you can't see that, or at least question these actions?

Lastly I will comment on an aspect of kencode's management style I am not a big fan of, that being disclosure of specifications and design documents. The issue of specs was mentioned in today's mumble as well. This is also an area that xeroc has raised concern over. Ken & I have also had differences over his lack of disclosure concerning the roadmap to completion you may have read here in the forum, however I admit I am not in ken's shoes so I am willing to let him manage the project in his own competent manor. Doesn't mean I'm letting him off the hook, I am just giving him more time.

It's very important to note that I have raised similar concerns with the PeerPlays project about disclosure of witness duties, those related to reporting event results. @Taconator has hit the nail on the head in his steemit article to describe what is involved in that aspect of a peerplays witness responsibilities. I have also spoken with Jonathon about this in addition to bringing it up on the Friday mumble many times. The point I am trying to make is that the reason these people are not being transparent regarding such details, stealth specs / roadmap and peerplays witness event reporting details, is because BOTH ARE OPERATING IN A HIGHLY COMPETITIVE MARKET and they believe such disclosure would be detrimental to the success of the project. I was persuaded by Jonathon's rather lengthy but thorough explanation of the rationale for those decisions, and defer to his judgment now that I better understand some of the elements that went into it.

As to design docs & specs, I tend to take xeroc's perspective and believe those are extremely important. But when has ANYONE demanded that ByteMaster or Cryptonomex produce such documents, let alone to do so BEFORE their product was released? That is simply not reasonable. A roadmap is a different matter IMO, and is more a matter of PR and accountability than anything.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline lil_jay890

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I got tired of wondering what's going on with stealth, so I asked @kenCode what the deal is and he said his team resumed work on it some time ago and the public testnet is probably less than a month away.  That was really great to hear! 

Not to mention, apparently libsnark has been replaced by Confidential Assets (CA).  This is fantastic because with CA, transactions are much faster than with libsnark (which apparently slow down transactions by at least 40 seconds).  Also, with CA there is no "trusted setup" issue like zcash and other libsnark implementations have.  Anyone who has followed the "trusted setup" controversy even a little bit knows that it's a big deal.  So this is a very positive development for Bitshares!

https://blockstream.com/2017/04/03/blockstream-releases-elements-confidential-assets.html

Quoted the entire thing because it's that important. Also is it time for a happy dance or do I need to reel myself in?

Why would blockpay, Ken, Chris, and whoever else is in charge over their leave investors completely in the dark about this?  They missed out at a massive opportunity to increase the value of the blockpay token... @Chris4210 mentioned in a previous mumble that the purpose of the blockpay token may be changing, what is the status with that?

While it's good to hear that Ken is still working on this, Blockpay investors shouldn't have to hear this "through the grapevine".

Offline hodor

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Hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor, hodor hodor.

Offline JoeyD

I got tired of wondering what's going on with stealth, so I asked @kenCode what the deal is and he said his team resumed work on it some time ago and the public testnet is probably less than a month away.  That was really great to hear! 

Not to mention, apparently libsnark has been replaced by Confidential Assets (CA).  This is fantastic because with CA, transactions are much faster than with libsnark (which apparently slow down transactions by at least 40 seconds).  Also, with CA there is no "trusted setup" issue like zcash and other libsnark implementations have.  Anyone who has followed the "trusted setup" controversy even a little bit knows that it's a big deal.  So this is a very positive development for Bitshares!

https://blockstream.com/2017/04/03/blockstream-releases-elements-confidential-assets.html

Quoted the entire thing because it's that important. Also is it time for a happy dance or do I need to reel myself in?

Offline konelectric

I got tired of wondering what's going on with stealth, so I asked @kenCode what the deal is and he said his team resumed work on it some time ago and the public testnet is probably less than a month away.  That was really great to hear! 

Not to mention, apparently libsnark has been replaced by Confidential Assets (CA).  This is fantastic because with CA, transactions are much faster than with libsnark (which apparently slow down transactions by at least 40 seconds).  Also, with CA there is no "trusted setup" issue like zcash and other libsnark implementations have.  Anyone who has followed the "trusted setup" controversy even a little bit knows that it's a big deal.  So this is a very positive development for Bitshares!

https://blockstream.com/2017/04/03/blockstream-releases-elements-confidential-assets.html

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Tweeter: Konelectric. Steemit: Konelectric. Youtube: Patrick Konshak. Success Council: Yourship. Mumble: Yourship or Konelectric.

Offline tbone

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I got tired of wondering what's going on with stealth, so I asked @kenCode what the deal is and he said his team resumed work on it some time ago and the public testnet is probably less than a month away.  That was really great to hear! 

Not to mention, apparently libsnark has been replaced by Confidential Assets (CA).  This is fantastic because with CA, transactions are much faster than with libsnark (which apparently slow down transactions by at least 40 seconds).  Also, with CA there is no "trusted setup" issue like zcash and other libsnark implementations have.  Anyone who has followed the "trusted setup" controversy even a little bit knows that it's a big deal.  So this is a very positive development for Bitshares!

https://blockstream.com/2017/04/03/blockstream-releases-elements-confidential-assets.html

Offline lakerta06

What is the status of the ongoing blockpay issues?  No update here or on steem.  Blockpay is severely under performing almost all other currencies/assets.  Stealth was suppose to be ready (at least public testing) by now and should have been caught up in the Anonymous coin pump... Huge missed opportunity and very concerning with the lack of updates.

This

Offline lil_jay890

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What is the status of the ongoing blockpay issues?  No update here or on steem.  Blockpay is severely under performing almost all other currencies/assets.  Stealth was suppose to be ready (at least public testing) by now and should have been caught up in the Anonymous coin pump... Huge missed opportunity and very concerning with the lack of updates.

Offline Thom

Today is Blockpays 1st year anniversary. With all the negativity going around here, I decide to do something positive for Blockpay. Here is a little steemit post I did: http://bit.ly/2q1S56b

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Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline konelectric

Today is Blockpays 1st year anniversary. With all the negativity going around here, I decide to do something positive for Blockpay. Here is a little steemit post I did: http://bit.ly/2q1S56b
Tweeter: Konelectric. Steemit: Konelectric. Youtube: Patrick Konshak. Success Council: Yourship. Mumble: Yourship or Konelectric.