Author Topic: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC  (Read 1507 times)

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Offline mf-tzo

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bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« on: May 18, 2017, 10:44:48 am »
I was wondering whether those nice friendly bts whales that we have and the rest of us can do something about bringing more liquidity in bitbtc, bitsilver and bitgold so  people can safely store their value in those as well within bitshares DEX. Do we need to adjust some parameters?

I am very happy that finally we have a lot of bitusd and bitcny into existence and this brings huge confidence to keep funds within the DEX..I know from my self that for the first time after 3 years I can park some bitusd on the DEX and not worry about lack of liquidity but on the other side I am afraid of a currency fiat crisis coming soon so some bitsilver and bitgold and maybe bitbtc would be nice to have..But I feel idiot to  overpay huge premiums to buy those assets on the DEX and I do not feel safe buying gold and keep it under my mattress..

So what can we do about this? We need to do something for sure before it is late..Thoughts?

Offline Permie

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2017, 11:40:22 am »
+5%
I agree!

I do not feel safe buying gold and keep it under my mattress..
Diversify.

So your physical gold gets stolen?
Never mind you have crypto

So your crypto gets stolen/lost/hacked/put on trial?
Never mind, you have physical wealth to fund yourself

Crypto does not replace physical Precious Metals imo. It just adds another vector of wealth preservation.

You are active a lot in Greece, right?
A government 'haircut' of your bank balance can't touch your physical gold buried/hidden somewhere.
What if they stop you at the border and ask you to explain how you know so much about crypto?
It's illegal to not declare if you have more than $10,000 in cash on you at an airport.
What happens if they expand the definition of "cash"?

What if?
What if?
What if?

Diversify your methods of wealth preservation.
A $50 silver coin is well worth having

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Offline alt

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2017, 11:45:07 am »
Gold and Silver is good
but bitBTC should remove from the list.
we'll have big trouble when BTC fork to two coin just like ETC/ETH

I was wondering whether those nice friendly bts whales that we have and the rest of us can do something about bringing more liquidity in bitbtc, bitsilver and bitgold so  people can safely store their value in those as well within bitshares DEX. Do we need to adjust some parameters?

I am very happy that finally we have a lot of bitusd and bitcny into existence and this brings huge confidence to keep funds within the DEX..I know from my self that for the first time after 3 years I can park some bitusd on the DEX and not worry about lack of liquidity but on the other side I am afraid of a currency fiat crisis coming soon so some bitsilver and bitgold and maybe bitbtc would be nice to have..But I feel idiot to  overpay huge premiums to buy those assets on the DEX and I do not feel safe buying gold and keep it under my mattress..

So what can we do about this? We need to do something for sure before it is late..Thoughts?

Offline paliboy

Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2017, 01:56:18 pm »
Gold and Silver is good
but bitBTC should remove from the list.
we'll have big trouble when BTC fork to two coin just like ETC/ETH

 +5% I would omit bitBTC for now because I'm still not sure about its value proposition... I understand why would somebody short it into existence but what would be the reason to buy it? plus the non-zero probability of fork

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2017, 02:12:13 pm »
Ok guys...forget I mentioned bitbtc... I could not care less about it..

What I do care is about people who have no access to financial markets, who do not trust centralized exchanges or banks and are afraid to hold physical metals in their house to be able to buy bitsilver and bitgold at market value price and keep it safely on a decentralized exchange..
I also care about providing liquidity between bitusd, bitcny, biteur and bitsilver and bitgold not only pairs between bts: bitsilver and bitgold because bts is volatile and sometimes the transition from bitfiat to bts to bitmetals can be proved profitable but other times not..so someone who uses the DEX to save do not want to go through this volatility..

What can we do to provide bitfiat:bitmetals liquidity? Do we need to change some parameters?

Whales and bots to the rescue!! :)



Offline fav

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 02:46:56 pm »
only silver is unique in crypto right now...

anyways, I'd rather support HERO :)
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Offline Stan

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 03:10:00 pm »
Ok guys...forget I mentioned bitbtc... I could not care less about it..

What I do care is about people who have no access to financial markets, who do not trust centralized exchanges or banks and are afraid to hold physical metals in their house to be able to buy bitsilver and bitgold at market value price and keep it safely on a decentralized exchange..
I also care about providing liquidity between bitusd, bitcny, biteur and bitsilver and bitgold not only pairs between bts: bitsilver and bitgold because bts is volatile and sometimes the transition from bitfiat to bts to bitmetals can be proved profitable but other times not..so someone who uses the DEX to save do not want to go through this volatility..

What can we do to provide bitfiat:bitmetals liquidity? Do we need to change some parameters?


Whales and bots to the rescue!! :)

I'm working on the whales.  Somebody do the bots.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Permie

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 03:12:05 pm »
I also care about providing liquidity between bitusd, bitcny, biteur and bitsilver and bitgold not only pairs between bts: bitsilver and bitgold because bts is volatile and sometimes the transition from bitfiat to bts to bitmetals can be proved profitable but other times not..so someone who uses the DEX to save do not want to go through this volatility..

What can we do to provide bitfiat:bitmetals liquidity? Do we need to change some parameters?

So you want traders to be able to borrow bitGold from the market, and use bitUSD as collateral (a CfD, contract for difference)
In this way bitGold trades against bitUSD.

If bitUSD can be used as collateral in such a CfD, then the bitUSD itself must be collateralized with bts. BTS must be the collateral-of-last-resort(?)

So trader A thinks that the price of gold in dollars is going to go down. He wants to take a leveraged bet that he is right. He wants to be short gold and long USD.
So in order to borrow 1oz of gold (~$1200), he needs 110% collateral of $1200, which = $1320bitUSD to collateralise this trade.
Let's assume trader A is the first to use BitShares so he cannot find a trade partner to buy bitUSD from.
So he must short it into existence himself.

Trader A borrows bitUSD from the blockchain using bts as collateral, in the usual way.
Trader A needs to borrow $1320bitUSD.
He needs to collateralise this loan with 175% bts.
So trader A needs $2,310 worth of bts so create this bitUSD.

At this stage, trader A owes debts of $2,310 bts, and long $1320bitUSD

Trader A then uses his $1,320bitUSD as collateral to create 1oz of bitGOLD.

At this stage, trader A is now long 1oz Gold ($1200), and in debt bts (collateral worth $2,310, or around 44,000bts today.)

Trader A then sells his created bitGold to the market, (because he thinks gold will do down in price). He trades with Trader B, and Trader A receives $1200bitUSD.

Trader A is now long $1200bitUSD, and has debts of $2,310 worth of bts to the blockchain.
Trader A doesn't care about the price of bts.
What can he do?

=============

So in order to meet the demand for a bitGOLD:bitUSD trading pair, short traders will need to be laying out 192.5% collateral in bts.
But people who want so trade bitGold:bitUSD, don't care about hte price of bts.
How can this trading pair function without involving price exposure to bts?

This isn't such a problem if one day bts is so liquid and stable that there is only negligible volatility.
But it's a LONG LONG way off that.
So can this bitGold:bitUSD pair exist without bts?

If this can be done.... then what is the point of bts in the first place...
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 03:15:46 pm by Permie »
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Offline mf-tzo

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 03:33:33 pm »
[member=36434]Permie[/member] The only thing I was saying is that there should be liquidity to buy bitgold for 1,254 - 1,260 bitusd which is currently the price of gold..I do not want to change anything in the way the system works..
The only thing that needs to be done is people willing to buy or sell bitgold for bitusd at the current price and not be obliged to pay 1,500 bitusd for 1 oz of bitgold for example...

The peg is maintained between bts and bitusd as normal which works great for the last 3 years..the bitfiat:bitgold will be bots doing the bitfiat:bitgold peg..I don't know if there needs to adjust some parameters though as we did with bitusd and bitcny for this to work.

[member=6]Stan[/member]  :) :) :) You are truly the grandfather of BTS. Thank you very much for your involvement all these years!

Offline yvv

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 04:05:04 pm »

The peg is maintained between bts and bitusd as normal which works great for the last 3 years..the bitfiat:bitgold will be bots doing the bitfiat:bitgold peg..I don't know if there needs to adjust some parameters though as we did with bitusd and bitcny for this to work.


Bots don't do peg, they are just buying and selling. Peg from below is guaranteed by forced settlement. Whenever the market price goes below the feed price, you simply buy and settle and collect instant profit with little investment. To maintain the peg from above, you need to invest a large amount of BTS to put into collateral and short sell bitAsset. The problem is that there is no easy way to make profit out of difference between the market price and the feed price in this case. Suppose you notice that bitGold is traded at 20% premium, you go ahead and short sell. What next? Next you would want to settle your debt at less premium, you wait when the market price get closer to peg, but instead BTS price falls by 50% and you get margin called at higher price.

BitCNY and bitUSD are spun up by dedicated enthusiasts who are bullish on BTS long term, but you know, their funds are limited.

Offline Pheonike

Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 05:32:05 pm »

Why does the shorter have to short bitusd? They could just buy bitusd with bts or any other asset they have on the exchange and use the bitusd to short gold.

Offline Stan

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 06:45:57 pm »
[member=36434]Permie[/member] The only thing I was saying is that there should be liquidity to buy bitgold for 1,254 - 1,260 bitusd which is currently the price of gold..I do not want to change anything in the way the system works..
The only thing that needs to be done is people willing to buy or sell bitgold for bitusd at the current price and not be obliged to pay 1,500 bitusd for 1 oz of bitgold for example...

The peg is maintained between bts and bitusd as normal which works great for the last 3 years..the bitfiat:bitgold will be bots doing the bitfiat:bitgold peg..I don't know if there needs to adjust some parameters though as we did with bitusd and bitcny for this to work.

[member=6]Stan[/member]  :) :) :) You are truly the grandfather of BTS. Thank you very much for your involvement all these years!

Thanks.
I actually am the father of the father of BTS, but grandfather doesn't sound as good as godfather:

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 07:15:02 am »
[member=6]Stan[/member] Lol...My bad...I meant Godfather!!  :)

Offline karnal

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Re: bitGold-bitSilver-bitBTC
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 08:38:45 am »
I think DigixDAO / DGX will be a huge thing this year, it would be smart to position bitGOLD and bitSILVER as worthy and more decentralized alternatives.

Especially once we get those pesky confidential transactions going. Before summer.