Author Topic: HERTZ - Oscillating Formula Based Asset  (Read 18522 times)

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Offline R

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Offline R

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Had an interesting discussion with an user on the /r/cryptomarkets subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoMarkets/comments/811cv0/hertz_an_oscillating_usd_pegged_algorithm_based/dv01paz/

Their idea for algorithm based assets:


Offline R

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@ag2: Speaking of the VIX, it just got halted! https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/960880138257948673

Time for Hertz to replace the VIX? :D

Offline R

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Bump! Any interest in the btsprice dev bounty?

Once wackou has created a new release, verbaltech's feeds will line up with the other price feed publishers & Hertz will be highly accurate. We could activate Hertz now technically.

Offline R

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I do actually use BTSPrice for feeding most of the "currency" markets and gold silver. It's  a great tool and very all-entailing featurerich and well coded by @alt , however as announced, he stopped maintaining it with his exit of BTS. Hence my addition on my GH.

Perhaps it'd be worth maintaining a Bitshares community version, so that we can do pull requests for improvements? Looking at the forked repos, they've made similar & unique changes worthy of use by witnesses.

But i do also run separate scripts for more custom needed feeds, like HERO , Bit20, and now, Hertz.  These are (imho) less about continuous realtime market monitoring (which btsprice-tool for currency markets perfectly serves) and more about the one-off-calculate-ad-hoc algoritmic based feed pushes. Those feeds (in my case) are all based of combining the algorithm calculation with publishing the feed by utilising the feed_publish command from pybitshares. Link with "individual" scripts https://github.com/roelandp/bts-misc-pricefeeds

Perhaps it could be an optional asset rather than mandatory? So that not everyone needs to provide hertz price feeds?

Offline roelandp

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I made a mod for BTSprice to continue supporting the no longer running btsbots.com DEX order books. https://github.com/roelandp/btsprice

I do actually use BTSPrice for feeding most of the "currency" markets and gold silver. It's  a great tool and very all-entailing featurerich and well coded by @alt , however as announced, he stopped maintaining it with his exit of BTS. Hence my addition on my GH.

But i do also run separate scripts for more custom needed feeds, like HERO , Bit20, and now, Hertz.  These are (imho) less about continuous realtime market monitoring (which btsprice-tool for currency markets perfectly serves) and more about the one-off-calculate-ad-hoc algoritmic based feed pushes. Those feeds (in my case) are all based of combining the algorithm calculation with publishing the feed by utilising the feed_publish command from pybitshares. Link with "individual" scripts https://github.com/roelandp/bts-misc-pricefeeds

That said, let's keep this thread for Hertz / Hero and see whether someone jumps on your bounty and focus back to Hertz :)


Offline R

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i did make some changes to btsprice by alt to keep it running, however no intergration with hertz yet.

Is the btsprice repo still actively maintained? I've seen that several forks of btsprice have made their own changes, but perhaps just not created a PR to merge back into master?

giving its nature of being an algorithmic mpa not so much based on “old skool”  market monitoring / price moves i’m not sure if it fits the scope of btsprice.

Several witnesses use btsprice to provide price feeds & @win.neil expressed interest in providing hertz feeds if it was implemented into btsprice: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,25831.msg315187.html#msg315187

Support in btsprice will greatly increase witness price feed coverage, Hertz currently has 7 feeds (with another 2-3 possible with current feed scripts), HERO has 8, yet bitUSD has 21 feeds. A greater quantity of feeds improves the median settlement price list & improves decentralization.

Do you believe there would be opposition to Algorithm Based Assets (MPA/Smartcoins w/ algorithm) in the Chinese community? Wouldn't hurt to create a Hertz/Hero compatible implementation for manual implementation by specific witnesses using btsprice.

Perhaps it'd be appropriate to only propose the Hertz bounty, as the Hero feeds are maintained by the hero foundation.. yeah let's go ahead and cancel the hero bounty due to being out of scope, hertz implementation is now $750 bitUSD.

https://steemit.com/bitshares/@cm-steem/hertz-bounty-750-bitusd-for-implementing-hertz-in-the-btsprice-python-price-feed-repo

people running btsprice already have python, so its a small step
to py-bitshares imho.

I don't think we'd need to import python-bitshares nor pendulum (using time() instead), if we can get the USD:BTS price (perhaps USD:CNY:BTS) using existing btsprice functionality then we can implement Hertz without disrupting the current software stack too heavily.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 05:13:17 pm by Customminer »

Offline roelandp

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hey sakhan,

no those individual scripts are custom mpas and are fed via xerocs pybitshares.

i did make some changes to btsprice by alt to keep it running, however no intergration with hertz yet.

giving its nature of being an algorithmic mpa not so much based on “old skool”  market monitoring / price moves i’m not sure if it fits the scope of btsprice.

people running btsprice already have python, so its a small step
to py-bitshares imho. 


Offline sahkan

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Really need to create Hertz price feeds for btsprice https://github.com/pch957/btsprice/issues/4

Would anyone be interested in working on this in return for some bitUSD? :D

$500 for Hertz implementation and $250 for Hero implementation sound tempting? It needs to be pegged to BTS:USD settlement rate (not BTS:CNY).

Hertz reference: https://github.com/BTS-CM/scripts/blob/master/hertz-feed.py
Hero reference: https://github.com/hero-global/scripts/blob/master/hero-feed.py

I think @roelandp already wrote those. Here is HERO: https://github.com/roelandp/bts-misc-pricefeeds/blob/master/hero.py and he is feeding HERTZ as well.

Offline R

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Really need to create Hertz price feeds for btsprice https://github.com/pch957/btsprice/issues/4

Would anyone be interested in working on this in return for some bitUSD? :D

$750 for Hertz implementation sound tempting? It needs to be pegged to BTS:USD settlement rate (not BTS:CNY).

Use the time() reference instead of pendulum & try to get the BTS:USD rate from existing btsprice functionality (or implement following the existing coding style).

Hertz references:
https://github.com/BTS-CM/scripts/blob/master/hertz-feed.py
https://github.com/grctest/bts_tools/blob/master/bts_tools/feeds.py#L275
https://github.com/grctest/bts_tools/blob/master/bts_tools/feeds.py#L439
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 04:49:38 pm by Customminer »

Offline R

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But to think about, if a blockchain like STEEM or GOLOS paid out rewards with such a token. risk probability could be considered of printing % of anual inflation in said token? perhaps some restriction of settlement maybe. Less often would a arbitrary limit of the total allowable debt be breached, and perhaps higher limit set.?

Steem & Golos don't maintain their USD reference peg though, SBD is currently ~$6.50 right now each. If this Hz token proves successful, then its introduction on other graphene chains would be fine - everything Hertz is MIT licensed. Don't know how the effect would be though given that these pegged assets don't maintain their peg.

Also understand the total allowable debt as a function of the powered up token. With a projection of this value possible  examining the the component of it in a powering down contract

In Steem and Golos examples where ratio powered up : powered down, tends to exceed 1, makes this projection better.

The Hertz variables could be modified dynamically depending on external factors, sure - you just need to make sure that it doesn't introduce too much volatility.

---

Think about the Market BTS Market Hertz : BTS.

When BTS behaves volatile either swinging up or down in real terms and from average. Understand someone may prefer sell BTS token for BTS Market hertz to realize profit on upswing but remain invested in BTS, or to mitigate losses on down swing, but still remain invested.  These are new options, and are naturally met with converse options That apply to this new investor in BTS Market Hertz.

There's always been the option to use bitUSD to evade falling BTS prices & likewise to sell bitUSD to buy cheap BTS when it's increasing in value.

The appreciation/depreciation of debt is indeed a valuable new concept that's not been explored elsewhere (AFAIK), it introduces new trading strategies in BTS for sure.

Think of BTS Market Hertz as part of an investment portfolio and being able to trade the BTS market while maintaining this investment trivially.

Not for long term holding, since there's limits to the price feed appreciation. But sure, buying low and selling high would be pretty simple. It is however highly experimental which is a risk in of itself.

Other considerations:

BTS Market Hertz as the preferred collateral rather than BTS in a system such as bitshares.

Anyone can create an MPA which uses Hertz as the backing asset, similar to how XCD uses bitUSD as collateral. I'm not sure of the implications of such a smartcoin

The volatility of a market can be measured i.e VIX.

Interesting, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variance_swap Variance swaps sound similar to Hertz except centralized & generalized.

What would the VIX value of Hertz be?

Daily change of 2%, 364 trading days in the 28 day calendar, 2*square_root(364) = 38.157

2*square_root(28) = 10.583

https://www.investing.com/indices/volatility-s-p-500-historical-data VIX is currently 12.99

Anyone could create their own Hertz style smartcoin which was pegged against one of these established VIX/Variance-Swap mechanisms.

new type of price-feed: subject the number of days in the average to democratic process, variable which witnesses decide dynamically.

What if each witness monitored a burn/null role's memo data for burn transactions - the more smartcoins destroyed the greater the impact on the smartcoin's settings. Imagine a tug of war, the more destroyed against A causes appreciation, more destroyed against B causes deppreciation.

If a smartcoin is destroyed, there's debt without associated liquid smartcoin, so theoretically more will need shorted.

Permanently locking up collateral by burning smartcoins is next level! ;D
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 04:47:22 pm by Customminer »

Offline ag2

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Hi, I'll respond with detail later. I gave no consideration or suggestion on collateral, etc., parameters that would have to be defined.

But to think about, if a blockchain like STEEM or GOLOS paid out rewards with such a token. risk probability could be considered of printing % of anual inflation in said token? perhaps some restriction of settlement maybe. Less often would a arbitrary limit of the total allowable debt be breached, and perhaps higher limit set.?

Also understand the total allowable debt as a function of the powered up token. With a projection of this value possible  examining the the component of it in a powering down contract

In Steem and Golos examples where ratio powered up : powered down, tends to exceed 1, makes this projection better.

Think about the Market BTS Market Hertz : BTS.

When BTS behaves volatile either swinging up or down in real terms and from average. Understand someone may prefer sell BTS token for BTS Market hertz to realize profit on upswing but remain invested in BTS, or to mitigate losses on down swing, but still remain invested.  These are new options, and are naturally met with converse options That apply to this new investor in BTS Market Hertz.

Think of BTS Market Hertz as part of an investment portfolio and being able to trade the BTS market while maintaining this investment trivially.

Other considerations:

the Demand of this token in a graphene chain based community that has the only other alternative of the native currency.

 BTS Market Hertz as the preferred collateral rather than BTS in a system such as bitshares.

The volatility of a market can be measured i.e VIX.

new type of price-feed: subject the number of days in the average to democratic process, variable which witnesses decide dynamically.

That's all for later, just thoughts on my mind. Response to Customminer coming next.