OpenLedger propose Bitshares 3.0 enhancements

[ivandev]

Dear community. Due to my mistake, I’ve done poll, without possibility to change vote, while announced possibility to add new options for voting during discussion. Sincerely apologize for inconvenience, but seems the only way to get fair final decision is creating new poll with revoting (option with trustless gateway is included). Voting in current thread will be frozen and discussion is closed.
We invite you all to a new thread - follow next link:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,25187.0.html

[bitcrab]

I feel what we are talking about are:

1. to which direction should Bitshares evolve while the other blockchains evolve rapidly?

2. how to implement the new change and fund the development?

after go through this thread and some relevant posts, I tend to agree the ideas come from https://steemit.com/bitshares/@slavix/beos-bitshares-on-eos-alternative-proposal-for-bitshares-3-0 :  make an EOS clone with BTS as a base token.

maybe smart contracts and VM are the most important factors for the next step evolution of Bitshares, however, EVM is designed specially on Ethereum blockchain, I don't think it can be smoothly integrated into Bitshares blockchain, the obvious difference between the 2 blockchains base will make this process tough, so why not adopt EOS VM, which is also built on Graphene base, instead in this scenario?

thinking continully, if we need to adopt most of the good features introduced by EOS, why not just clone EOS and make BTS the base token? and realize the current Bitshares features as native smart contracts on BEOS (Bitshares on EOS)

to avoid the potential risks and fit the possibility that there is no consensus from community, one selection is to hard fork BTS to 2 parts, one classical BTS and one BEOS, like BTC and BCC, then each one can still prefer what he likes most and the better one will emerge with time elapse.

A worker proposal can be created to fund the development and implementation of this, after a skilled team is organized.



 

[karnal]

... confidential transactions? On by default with opt-out?

[fractalnode]

3) Creation of Fee Backed Asset.
The idea of creating the FBA was proposed back in 2015, but was never implemented.

AFAIK FBA's have been implemented. The only current use-case is STEALTH, i. e. part of the fees for stealth transfers are used to buy back the STEALTH asset.

If you mean something else, please expand.

I think it's about creating the ability to create new FBA tokens. On the other hand, I think there was a reason why this possibility was blocked or abandoned. Surely someone remembers

[wdfh]

I'd like to see the option to trade all alt coins on Bitshares, then we would become the go to DEX for any trade.

Is this possible?

[bitcoinerS]

I proposed Bitshares adopt EOS blockchain tech in this post
https://steemit.com/bitshares/@slavix/should-bitshares-adopt-eos-blockchain
It is relevant to this discussion. Please comment with your ideas.

I think Bitshares should migrate to EOS blockchain tech by cloning it and making BTS base token.
This can be done in steps. Both Bitshares 2.0 and Bitshares 3.0 (on EOS) can run in parallel during transition phase.
BTS tokens on both blockchains would be interchangeable 1 to 1.

BEOS - Alternative proposal for Bitshares 3.0
https://steemit.com/bitshares/@slavix/beos-bitshares-on-eos-alternative-proposal-for-bitshares-3-0

[pc]

Thank you very much, great initiative IMO!

1) Implementing a virtual machine (like Ethereum’s’ Virtual Machine) into Graphene.

I'm very sceptic about porting a VM to BTS. I believe that in the end it means that we have to sacrifice our speed, because the problem here is that VMs simply don't scale. We're still one of the fastest blockchains out there - sacrificing that for something that in the end would be no better than ETH would be a very bad move IMO.

2) Implementation of the Atomic Swap mechanism.

Not sure if I understand what you mean - are we talking about Atomic Cross--Chain Trading (ACCT)?

In that case I think that this would be a great feature to have. It could provide an actual trustless gateway (as opposed to a delegate-controlled sidechain/gateway) between BTC and bitBTC, and most altcoins out there. The speed of such trades is mostly determined by the speed of the other chain (read: slow), which is why I think that people wouldn't use it for everyday trading but more to move funds into and out of our chain. For everyday trading they would use out built-in high-speed DEX.

It could also be implemented with relatively little effort (read: low cost) I think.

3) Creation of Fee Backed Asset.
The idea of creating the FBA was proposed back in 2015, but was never implemented.

AFAIK FBA's have been implemented. The only current use-case is STEALTH, i. e. part of the fees for stealth transfers are used to buy back the STEALTH asset.

If you mean something else, please expand.

[severo]

When will any official proposal appear on bsips?

[ivandev]

After reading abit's post I realize that I misread the proposal. I was indeed thinking of sidechains for a trustless gateway and not atomic swaps.

So, simply change your vote)

[Frodo]

After reading abit's post I realize that I misread the proposal. I was indeed thinking of sidechains for a trustless gateway and not atomic swaps.

[ivandev]

Dear Abit and Johnny, thanks for detailed and reasonable feedback. We considered proposal to make decentralized gateway, but didn't include in last update. For now, I see real demand. Moreover,  I guess, working conception will be useful on EOS also. Thanks for links with BM conception, usefull. I'm adding this poll option and anybody (including already voted) can vote for this one.

And I want to emphasize, that we do not split goals and interests on "our" and "not our" (initiate wasn't born because of particular business reasons). The main idea is working together with community, but not against. So, we will rely on peoples' opinion in the end.

yvv, we're updating gateway services (wallets) one by one, so, very soon,  you will see extremely stable BTC, ETH and its SContracts and some BTC based currencies.

[yvv]

The strategic goal of OpenLedger is to create such a platform which will outpace the competition and allow for the creation of a truly decentralized and trusted digital economy.

Greate! Than why don't you start with improving your gateway, because there are quite a lot of complains in this forum. If you could provide a gateway between bitAssets and their underlying assets, that would be great too.

[severo]

The idea is to take ETH virtual machine (simply because it's working and well-tested), adjust and integrate exactly inside of BitShares. It will not support ETH, but will work only with BitShares ecosystem currencies and assets.

Aha! Great! we are going to phagocyte the ETH functionalities. I like it.

[severo]

If you want to swap BTC with OPEN.BTC, why not do it via OpenLedger's gateway? It needs trust from the first place. If you want to swap BTC with BitBTC, there will be a fee involved, and may have liquidity issue. If you want to swap BTC with BTS or other token, it will be a mess. BitShares has on-chain order books, which IMHO should not be weaken by any means. That said, we are an exchange, OTC markets are our competitor.

We have really understood it well. There is no need to use a trusted third party, if the blockchain can do that job. That is part of the concept of Bitshares and, in fact, of all the cryptocurrencies. The gateways have not solved the liquidity problem of the Smartcoins, but a direct exchange in the DEX (BTC by BitBTC and ETH by BitETH) could do much to solve the problem. There is no danger that operations will exit the DEX. Once you have BitBTC, BitETH, etc. trading will be faster and cheaper than in exchanges that only operate with Atomic Swaps.

[JonnyB]

1.) Trustless BTC gateway, (AKA Sidechains) would do more good for bitshares than anything imo.

- Every trade that happens on the Bitshares DEX is an atomic swap. This is different than the cross chain atomic swap you are suggesting.
- Cross chain atomic swaps aren't really compatible with BitShares as Abit points out.
- Stealth is a Fee backed asset I believe.
- Implementing the dividend feature that peerplays have already developed would make sense.
- EOS is going to be the VM graphene chain. If it works well we can cherry pick the code when its built and tested.

[abit]

Perhaps people who have chosen Atomic Swap have not understood what it can be used with BitShares. It just looks fantastic, but IMHO for BitShares it's merely an OTC market feature which doesn't fit in current feature set. Say, if it's implemented, likely people will move orders outside of the DeX's order book. If you want to swap BTC with OPEN.BTC, why not do it via OpenLedger's gateway? It needs trust from the first place. If you want to swap BTC with BitBTC, there will be a fee involved, and may have liquidity issue. If you want to swap BTC with BTS or other token, it will be a mess. BitShares has on-chain order books, which IMHO should not be weaken by any means. That said, we are an exchange, OTC markets are our competitor.

Actually what "we" (the BitShares platform as a whole) need more now is a gateway with less trust required and perhaps better UX, e.g. BM's sidechain idea (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21263.msg276710.html#msg276710), or perhaps something like crypto-bridge is doing. With this it's easier for us to improve overall liquidity.

However, for OpenLedger ("they"), it's more important for them to utilize their OBITS token and other tokens. So they want EVM, they want expanded FBA (I'm not sure how Atomic Swap will help them though). Their interest is slightly different than what "we" have. However, as the (IMHO) most significant player/partner in the BitShares ecosystem, (IMHO) they have a say. If "we" ignore their voices, they may fork out, then we'll lose much.

So, from where I'm sitting, I'd like to make a compromise, identify the underlying needs, do it together, make us stronger.

[Frodo]

Dear Fav, Frodo.
We constantly observe the process of EOS creation. For now, EOS development is very dynamic and implementation of EOS features from test network is not not far-sighted approach. Also, afaik, EOS team is planning to update current BitShares and integrate everything available on EOS to BitShares after release. Then, together with EOS team, we have opportunity to combine efforts and parallelize development of the final system, meet both technical and business expectations, fully considering opinion of community.

I see, thanks. This is all going to be very exciting.

[fav]

voted for atomic swaps then, as long as it's electrum supportive (doesn't require the full blockchain)

[ivandev]

Dear Fav, Frodo.
We constantly observe the process of EOS creation. For now, EOS development is very dynamic and implementation of EOS features from test network is not not far-sighted approach. Also, afaik, EOS team is planning to update current BitShares and integrate everything available on EOS to BitShares after release. Then, together with EOS team, we have opportunity to combine efforts and parallelize development of the final system, meet both technical and business expectations, fully considering opinion of community.

Great. I vote for Atomic Swaps for the most urgent. But I just do not understand using Ether to make smart contracts. Is not it preferable to improve Bitshares?

The idea is to take ETH virtual machine (simply because it's working and well-tested), adjust and integrate exactly inside of BitShares. It will not support ETH, but will work only with BitShares ecosystem currencies and assets.

Personally I think the expansion of FBA concept  is more practicable for BitShares than the other two.

Then make your choice)

[Frodo]

First, awesome initiative  . Out of the given options I voted for atomic swaps, as that seems to be the next logic step for a DEX.

May I ask if it would be possible for you to investigate moving BitShares completely onto EOS? If I understand it correctly that would automatically give scripting abilities and native trading of other EOS-based tokens.

[abit]

Personally I think the expansion of FBA concept  is more practicable for BitShares than the other two.

[severo]

Great. I vote for Atomic Swaps for the most urgent. But I just do not understand using Ether to make smart contracts. Is not it preferable to improve Bitshares?

[fav]

mh, missing sidechaining/cherry picking EOS. that's the biggest bag on the table in my opinion.

[ivandev]

Discussion is moved to updated poll at the link: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,25187.0.html

Dear Community Members,
Over the past two years, OpenLedger have played an important role in the development and establishment of the BitShares blockchain. Our high-qualified team of developers have been involved in dozens of third-party projects, acting as consultants and direct executors, continuously interacting with the community, developers, and traders to develop their products on the BitShares ecosystem.
Believing in the limitless possibilities of BitShares technology, it is OpenLedger’s vision to build projects for all uses, and truly develop ‘Blockchain as a Service’ (BaaS).

With a varied and rich experience in development using Graphene technology, as well as unmatched experience in working with Bitcoin, Ethereum, NXT, Omni, Waves blockchains, the key goal for the OpenLedger team will be to research ongoing cryptocurrency technological trends, as well as create new features, with subsequent implementation into the BitShares blockchain.
OpenLedger sincerely believe that BitShares is significantly underrated, from both economic and technological points of view in comparison to other crypto-platforms.

The strategic goal of OpenLedger is to create such a platform which will outpace the competition and allow for the creation of a truly decentralized and trusted digital economy. To achieve these goals, we would like to rely not only on our own views and ideas, but also on yours - the community opinion - and we invite you to like to take part and join us in this next stage of Bitshares’ evolution.

For the first stage of our mission, we want the community to vote for one, or more, of the following proposed ideas:

1) Implementing a virtual machine (like Ethereum’s’ Virtual Machine) into Graphene.
Once created, it will allow each user to produce smart contracts that work with assets and Smartcoins. The mechanisms of ICOs, trusted systems for the payments of dividends, and hosting various games/shares/lotteries, are examples of possible, future business cases.
By combining the strengths of the two platforms (the flexibility of ETH Smartcontracts and the speed/throughput of BitShares), they will get the symbiosis of the advantages and eliminate the weaknesses of these two platforms.

2) Implementation of the Atomic Swap mechanism.
Such a mechanism will allow the exchange of funds from one blockchain (Bitshares) to another (bitcoin, as the first), without any participation from third parties. In this case, BTS, MPA (bitUSD), and UIA can be used as bitshares funds.
Given the fact that there is only one real decentralized exchange, the ability to enter it from other blockchains, without any risks (technical and regulatory), and the participation of third parties (gateways), creates huge economic potential for the platform and the cryptocurrency economy.

3) Creation of Fee Backed Asset.
The idea of creating the FBA was proposed back in 2015, but was never implemented. (http://docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/user/fba.html)

In addition to implementing the mechanisms for automatic dividends distribution, it is proposed to discuss additional options for managing fees (the ability to impose payments on the issuer, change the fee rules for creating/closing the order, so that the person who closed the order pays 100% of the fees or 50/50).


We are hungry for constructive dialogue and invite all of you in the community to join us in this quest.
Our menu of ideas may not be complete and if a community member puts forward an idea proposing the implementation of an unlisted, and vital development, we will add this item to the  list (your vote can be changed throughout the voting process).

Phase two will include the tabulation process.
The results will be summed up either on November 9 (in the case of clear and straight voting), or on November 30 (if there will be active discussions or disputes). Whatever the positive outcome, we will prepare a detailed roadmap, which will outline the steps, deadlines, project participants, and financial calculations, which will in turn be presented to the community.

The third stage will be a full deployment on the test network and the environment, with the testing process performed by the team and any interested parties within the community.
Following this, we will start the integration into working nodes. If the changes are significant, we will perform the hard fork, provided that all witnesses agree.

At OpenLedger we believe that true progress and mass adoption of blockchain technology will only come from working together. Collaboration is the new tool for global progress and it should be encouraged at every level, so please join us as we explore the future of the BitShares blockchain.


The OpenLedger Development Teams behind this project are:

Key Management Team:

Ivan – The Initiator and Supervisor of this project, Ivan is deeply involved in strategic planning, research and communications. He has led the OpenLedger development from the first moments of its existence.
Email: ivan@openledger.io
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivan-bo-b7421a151/

Mikhail – As the Head of Project, Michael is an experienced Release and Project Manager. Before crypto, he was the head of the management department in Wargaming Inc. (World of Tanks/Warships/Planes creator).
Email: mikhail.makaruk@openledger.io
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikhail-makaruk-2022714a/

Key development team:

Alex – The Guardian of Project Servers, Alex is am experienced DevOps and Engineer, controlling more than 20 servers the world over. He has built a unique network of pools with gateways, nodes and wallets, and manages security, resistance and stability of server infrastructures.

Anton – The Team Lead of Project Development, Anthony is a professional Engineer, with 12 years of programming experience (C++, Python, Ruby, JS), dozens of executed projects (four of them during the previous year in the blockchain industry) and limitless enthusiasm. Antony coordinates the work of dev groups in different directions (core, gateway, etc.).

The list of connected developers will be formed closer to the beginning of the approved project.

So, make your choice and feel free to comment!