Author Topic: review for price feeding  (Read 5062 times)

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Offline bitcrab

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review for price feeding
« on: November 18, 2017, 03:11:52 pm »
hi, [member=7312]ElMato[/member] [member=6601]wackou[/member] @verbaltech2 could you please check your price feeding and update the script? your feeding price is far below the reasonable figure.

the price from poloniex need to be removed.





« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 03:14:11 pm by bitcrab »
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Offline wackou

Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2017, 03:40:03 am »
I have now fixed my feed prices and released a new version of my feed script adding Fixer, CurrencyLayer, Quandl, AEX, ZB, Livecoin as feed providers
Please vote for witness wackou! More info at http://digitalgaia.io

Offline Crypto Kong

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review for price feeding
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2017, 09:06:00 am »
This is great to see ineffective exchange price feeds removed.


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Offline guan1990

Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 12:06:09 pm »
I have now fixed my feed prices and released a new version of my feed script adding Fixer, CurrencyLayer, Quandl, AEX, ZB, Livecoin as feed providers

Thanks,,  I  find  this problem  at  this morning in  China.  I   think it  should  be  common sense  that  Poloniex  price represent  only  bts  what  is  not  circulated, just  like  when  btc  couldn't  be  withdrawed  in  Okcoin  this  Spring  because  CN  Gov.  forced,that  some  btc  index  removed  OKCoin's  btc  price.I'm  not  sure  whether all  witness  know  this.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 12:07:46 pm by guan1990 »

Offline oxarbitrage

Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 03:07:32 pm »
just contacted [member=7312]ElMato[/member] to see if i can assist him with this or something.

Offline Thom

Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2017, 06:39:39 pm »
I posted this on Telegram earlier:

Quote
How quickly things change!  Witness dropped from rank 5 last night to rank 18 this morning.

Granted I've had some issues lately, but it is very obvious a drop that huge wasn't a bottom up (viral, grass-roots, individualist) phenomenon but rather due to our lack of decentralization and proxy vote changes.

It appears bitcrab has removed his proxy vote for my witness. If that change was based soley on my feed problems lately I believe that was premature. I am installing an update to wackou's bts_tools as we speak. Witness.still is also not voting for verbaltech2, but unlike bitcrab I don't know if he was supporting me before last night.

Until the vote weight of these proxies becomes less pronounced by the dilution of more voting accounts and proxies, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised about such radical changes to the bts landscape.

I actually want to thank bitcrab for being attentive to feeds. I just wish I had the confidence he did so fairly to both eastern & western feed producers.

It is no secret that only a few price feed scripts exist. It takes time for witness to become aware of new versions and then more time on top of those delays to get the scripts updated. Wackou completed the release of his script updates less than 8 hours ago. Everybody needs to sleep at some point.

Although I am glad bitcrab is attentive to feed issues, I feel his removal of support (if prompted by recent issues I've had) was too swift and doesn't balance other important factors witnesses are responsible for.

Verbaltech2 provides more resources, seed nodes and infrastructure support than the majority of other witnesses. I don't feel those contributions were given appropriate weight in the decision.

On the other hand, being ranked at the top of the witness list deserves a higher degree of accountability and review, so bitcrab's actions (tho perhaps were overly focused on feeds) were protective of the network. Can't fault him for that!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 06:42:40 pm by Thom »
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline bitstopia2049

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Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 10:29:07 pm »
Why isn't the bitUSD:BTS market also similarly subject to a raised settlement offset?  maybe 2%, 3% ??

I've been observing that market all week and the settlement order book will be getting as long as a Dead Sea scroll pretty soon.

If bitUSD sellers have this "discounted escape valve" then it will artificially reduce BTS buy pressure on the DEX and I wonder if therefore this can be considered real "price discovery"... (regardless of the manipulations taking place on Poloniex)..  If everyone ( except CEX and predatory whales ) wants to see the universe of BTS expand to rival BTC and Ethereum, etc.  then this market mechanism that is unique to the BTS exchange
has to be managed in an effcient and fair manner so as to not disadvantage one party and discourage the creation of bitAssets and also  leads to a chronic undersupply.

From the perspective of a shorter it wouldn't be reckless to open a few short positions this past week, but even though it seems like a reasonable bet, is it really worth the risk that the shorter could become entangled in some mercenary whale's huge dump of forced settled bitUSD?

If I wanted to short I would have to maintain a defacto collateral ratio of 400% - 600%. if I wanted to get a good night's sleep.   
The situation we have now is a rather frustrating "chicken and egg" problem subject to the machinations of any mercenary whales in a thin market
and furthermore with the cumulative amount of bitUSD removed from circulation continues to stymie the growth of the bitUSD ecosphere.

Looking at the Settlement Order book....the amounts range from a low 10.14988 bts  to an avaricious 186,801 bts, which as of the moment
of this writing is =  bitUSD 1.086 - 19,997..  Why would anyone want force settle for a $1.09 worth of BTS ???!! 

Obviously under current market conditions and trading volumes the 24 hour settlement delay is not a sufficient disincentive...I always thought that forced settlement was to be used only under some sort of dire circumstances or market imbalance ?  Did bytemaster ever say why the delay was 24 hours and not maybe 36 or 48?

So I think at the very least the Witnesses need to stay on top of this and provide a more accurate feed price that actually reflects the realities of what's going on in the markets and if not they should be voted out because they are  undermining the rate of BTS value appreciation and the DEX cannot be considered as operating at an INDUSTRIAL grade performance level ready for PRIME time adoption by the rest of the world.

 With BTC busting through the $8k mark...is it realistic to think that any trader would short into existence any significant amount of bitBTC
if he knows that he could be prematurely forced to close his position ????! even though he was willing to take a ri$k that a BTC correction would be coming in the near future? 

This situation is only good for SUPER ASTRO MEGA-WHALES....I on the other hand need my sleep.!

Offline ElMato

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Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 09:14:15 am »
hi, [member=7312]ElMato[/member] [member=6601]wackou[/member] @verbaltech2 could you please check your price feeding and update the script? your feeding price is far below the reasonable figure.

the price from poloniex need to be removed.





Feed prices are back, poloniex was removed from the equation

Offline bitcrab

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Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 07:15:21 am »
force settlement make sense under current infrastructure, it is the way to claim the value of smartcoins.

however, we need a reasonable force settlement offset, we also need the fed price trace the market price well enough.

if the offset is too low, shorters will be in high risk and will be discouraged to generate smartcoins, supply will be in shortage.

if the offset is too high, smartcoins will be devalued and off-peg.

we need a balance here.

AFAIK, currently BTS price in BTC is firstly got, and then converted to price in USD, and then in CNY.

deviation can happen in each step.

USDT are not equal to USD, this always contribute to the deviation of price.

CNY is not a free convertible currency, the officially published USD/CNY rate are used here but seldom traders can convert CNY to USD in the rate, this is another important factor for the deviation of price, maybe the bitUSD/bitCNY price in DEX is better than the official rate.

all this lead to a result that in DEX the BTS price in bitCNY is 3-5% higher than the settlement price for long time, and lead to endless settle orders.
while endless settle orders appear, it is telling that the system is ill.

to raise the offset to 5% is an urgent action to cure the illness, I don't think it is a permanent solution, we can find from magic wallet that now 1bitCNY = 0.98-0.99CNY, a little off-peg already happen.

so in long term vision the offset should be reduced, maybe not return to 1%, but at least it need to be reduced to about 3%.

surely the precondition is that the price feeding can reflect the market price exactly enough.

I think magicwallet can be one reliable source for BTS/CNY price, here an CNY/bitCNY price can be calculated out based on the P2P trading data, combined with the bitCNY/BTS price in DEX, a reliable price can be get.

this is a chance for magicwallet to contribute to the ecosystem. :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
在现有框架下,必须承认强清是有意义的,强清是用来实现智能货币对抵押物索取权的。
强清补偿需要足够合理,喂价需要对BTS的市场价格跟踪得足够好。

如果补偿过低,则shorter承担的风险过大,智能货币将会缺乏供应动力。
如果补偿过高,则智能货币对抵押物索取权得不到足够保证,智能货币会贬值,会脱锚。

这里需要平衡。

当前喂价的获得,如果我理解正确的话,应该是先获得BTC价格,转换为USD价格,再转换为CNY价格。

每个环节都可能会带来失真。

转换为USD价格时,因为获得的价格中许多并不是真正的美元价格,而是USDT价格,而USDT价格并不是真正的美元价格,最近这些天,USDT大约相当于98折的USD.

再转换成CNY价格时就又增添了一个因素,那就是CNY/USD并不是自由兑换的,估计许多脚本用的是官方价格,但手持CNY价格的人是无法用官方价格买到美元的,这又是一个失真因素。

也许就是这一切因素导致内盘BTS的CNY价格长期比喂价高5%,催生了持续不断的强清。

持续不断的强清说明系统病了,需要治理。

把强清补偿提高到5%是一种应急措施,是有副作用的,现在根据鼓鼓钱包里反应出的市场情况,bitCNY大约相当于打了99折到98折的人民币,已经有点脱锚了。

所以长期看强清补偿还是应该调低的,未必需要调回到1%,但至少可以调到3%以观后效。

但是,在调低前,需要优化喂价,使其对市场跟踪得足够好。

其实采用鼓鼓钱包承兑数据+内盘BTS/bitCNY市场价格会得到足够可靠的价格信息,只要鼓鼓钱包功能正常,那么CNY和bitCNY的交易通道就足够流畅,鼓鼓钱包这里就可以统计得到足够准确的市场数据。比以往的算法要有效。


« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 07:19:14 am by bitcrab »
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Offline pc

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Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 05:39:22 pm »
I think magicwallet can be one reliable source for BTS/CNY price, here an CNY/bitCNY price can be calculated out based on the P2P trading data, combined with the bitCNY/BTS price in DEX, a reliable price can be get.

You shouldn't do that. The CNY/bitCNY price and the bitCNY/BTS price are both influenced by the feed price (and settlement offset). Using these prices to define the feed price creates a feedback loop, which is inherently unstable.
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2017, 01:33:08 am »
I think magicwallet can be one reliable source for BTS/CNY price, here an CNY/bitCNY price can be calculated out based on the P2P trading data, combined with the bitCNY/BTS price in DEX, a reliable price can be get.

You shouldn't do that. The CNY/bitCNY price and the bitCNY/BTS price are both influenced by the feed price (and settlement offset). Using these prices to define the feed price creates a feedback loop, which is inherently unstable.

at least it can be one source, I haven't said we need to totally rely on this source.
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2017, 03:45:27 pm »


currently the bitCNY price feeding is far from acceptable.
I will try my best to vote out the witnesses who always feeds a much lower price than the market price.

of course we need to answer one question first: how to define "market price".

regarding CNY market, obviously the market price need to be get first from DEX and also CNY market like AEX.

I don't care how one witness generate the final fed price , but I am sure that a fed price keeping >3% lower or higher than the latest DEX price is not acceptable.

regarding CNY price feeding, one possible algorithm is to get DEX price A and also get price B from other exchanges.

normally just feed A.
if A is 3% or more lower than B, feed B.

this can feed a price that closest to market and avoid the "positive feed back" machanism of DEX price.

take good care of the price feeding, please.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 03:53:49 pm by bitcrab »
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Offline yvv

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Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2017, 03:55:02 pm »
Quote
get DEX price A

What is "DEX price A"? Which pair exactly?

Offline bitcrab

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Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2017, 03:56:07 pm »
Quote
get DEX price A

What is "DEX price A"? Which pair exactly?

it refers to the price in bitCNY/BTS pair in DEX.
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Offline yvv

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Re: review for price feeding
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2017, 04:00:18 pm »
Quote
get DEX price A

What is "DEX price A"? Which pair exactly?

it refers to the price in bitCNY/BTS pair in DEX.

You should not use bitCNY/BTS price (not on DEX nor on other exchange) to calculate bitCNY price feed , because it depends on price feed. This is fundamentally wrong, because you trigger a feedback this way, which may be negative (stabilizing) or positive (destabilizing) with equal chance.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 04:21:27 pm by yvv »