Author Topic: A Fee Backet Asset to support Bitshares integration with Open Bazaar?  (Read 5535 times)

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Offline R

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Getting smartcoins added to open bazaar sounds good, but yeah a worker proposal is far more reasonable/realistic than a FBA. How much do you imagine this would cost? A couple thousand dollars?

Offline zapata42

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FBA is a lot more complicated to implement and requires additional work on top of the integration of Smart Assets in both bitshares and openbazaar. So I think it will cost much more to shareholders, and from fav answer I suppose we are not ready to pay a lot for that. I'm not convinced this complexity worth the effort. We should Keep It Simple, Stupid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle).

I suppose you don't have the developper in charge of the implementation yet. So what we need is to be able to go to the OB community and say, "Bitshares is ready to give you X  (bit)USD and help you integrate SmartAssets". This is what I call a bounty and is a special type of worker: a worker with a multisig escrow account, that will release the funds when the implementation is finished.
In your worker proposal you can spread the "bounty" in mulitple tasks: specification, implementation,  management.

* nods *  Yeah, a bounty / worker as you described seems to be the way to go for right now.  I thought FBA's actually existed as they were originally spec'ed, with a working example (the STEALTH token).   
"

Bitshare guru will correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is no easy way to create a FBA currently. There is no UI for it, so it needs code, and it changes the consensus algorithm (= voted hard fork).

Offline chamber

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FBA is a lot more complicated to implement and requires additional work on top of the integration of Smart Assets in both bitshares and openbazaar. So I think it will cost much more to shareholders, and from fav answer I suppose we are not ready to pay a lot for that. I'm not convinced this complexity worth the effort. We should Keep It Simple, Stupid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle).

I suppose you don't have the developper in charge of the implementation yet. So what we need is to be able to go to the OB community and say, "Bitshares is ready to give you X  (bit)USD and help you integrate SmartAssets". This is what I call a bounty and is a special type of worker: a worker with a multisig escrow account, that will release the funds when the implementation is finished.
In your worker proposal you can spread the "bounty" in mulitple tasks: specification, implementation,  management.

* nods *  Yeah, a bounty / worker as you described seems to be the way to go for right now.  I thought FBA's actually existed as they were originally spec'ed, with a working example (the STEALTH token).   
"

Offline zapata42

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I'm less convinced by the Fee Backet Asset idea.

Why not offering a bounty paid by the reserve fund for the integration of Smart Assets in Open Bazaar?

If a bounty can get it done better that's cool with me.  I suggested a FBA because that seemed like it would be more appealing to the people putting up the money.   Why do you think bounties rather than FBA's would work better?

FBA is a lot more complicated to implement and requires additional work on top of the integration of Smart Assets in both bitshares and openbazaar. So I think it will cost much more to shareholders, and from fav answer I suppose we are not ready to pay a lot for that. I'm not convinced this complexity worth the effort. We should Keep It Simple, Stupid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle).

I suppose you don't have the developper in charge of the implementation yet. So what we need is to be able to go to the OB community and say, "Bitshares is ready to give you X  (bit)USD and help you integrate SmartAssets". This is what I call a bounty and is a special type of worker: a worker with a multisig escrow account, that will release the funds when the implementation is finished.
In your worker proposal you can spread the "bounty" in mulitple tasks: specification, implementation,  management.

Offline chamber

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The current iteration was launched in November, 2014

That's wrong. Current feature-rich version you speak of was launched into production on October 15, 2015. 1st year was BitSharesX which ceased all operation on that same day.

Okay, thanks for the correction!

The primary implementer (Daniel Larimer) decided to alter the FBA design to prohibit the distribution of fees collected to the owners of the FBA token. When all this came to light I asked Daniel to explain. He said the idea of distribution of fees collected wouldn't scale and such assets fail the "Howie" test, a legal ruling made by courts in the U.S.A. to identify when an asset is a security in the eyes of the US gov. He instead changed it to some type of token buyback scheme and that was never documented or discussed publicly.

Well, that's unfortunate.  Sounds like we need a worker-proposal to change the FBA mechanism to work as originally described. 

Offline chamber

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I'm less convinced by the Fee Backet Asset idea.

Why not offering a bounty paid by the reserve fund for the integration of Smart Assets in Open Bazaar?

If a bounty can get it done better that's cool with me.  I suggested a FBA because that seemed like it would be more appealing to the people putting up the money.   Why do you think bounties rather than FBA's would work better?

Offline chamber

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1)  Is there support within the Bitshares community for funding a Fee Backed Asset (let's call it OBI, for "Open Bazaar Integration") to fund the development costs of replacing Bitcoin with Bitshares in the OpenBazaar ecosystem?

Why not just create a worker proposal instead?

Pushing smartcoins instead of BTS would be smarter, imo.

I agree that the Smartcoins are the killer feature for OpenBazaar.  The idea is that Bitshares would be integrated such that any Bitshares asset could be traded from within OpenBazaar.

I'm up for it being a worker-proposal instead--I simply proposed a Fee Backed Asset as that allows people who can't necessarily code to benefit from helping to create the feature (such as writing the spec, promoting the idea, gathering feedback) .   It also allows one to offer some of the FBA's to the OpenBazaar devs/leads to incentivize them to cooperate.  However, whatever funding mechanism gets it done.   
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:38:15 pm by chamber »

Offline Thom

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The current iteration was launched in November, 2014

That's wrong. Current feature-rich version you speak of was launched into production on October 15, 2015. 1st year was BitSharesX which ceased all operation on that same day.

I also believe your FBA concept is based on old information. It has only come to light within the last few months that the way FBAs work is not what was discussed in this community. FBAs were a Eureka! moment of innovation and was an exciting concept when introduced. The primary implementer (Daniel Larimer) decided to alter the FBA design to prohibit the distribution of fees collected to the owners of the FBA token. When all this came to light I asked Daniel to explain. He said the idea of distribution of fees collected wouldn't scale and such assets fail the "Howie" test, a legal ruling made by courts in the U.S.A. to identify when an asset is a security in the eyes of the US gov. He instead changed it to some type of token buyback scheme and that was never documented or discussed publicly. He didn't even inform the investor for the work of this change, and that investor was surprised when he learned it was changed this way. Of the 4 people involved with the creation / management of the very first FBA, only Daniel Larimer knew of this change and he chose not to inform the community.

Although I consider Daniel to be a high-integrity type of person, he is only human and in this case his choice does not reflect a position of integrity.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 05:13:58 pm by Thom »
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline pc

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Here is the documentation to integrate new coins to openbazaar:
  https://github.com/OpenBazaar/openbazaar-go/blob/master/docs/altcoins.md

Apparently they expect a BTC-like API based on "addresses", "scripts" and the like. This is totally incompatible with BitShares' ledger.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline fav

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OB is a great proof of work, but I doubt it'll ever see some decent growth. would not waste money on it

Offline R

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1)  Is there support within the Bitshares community for funding a Fee Backed Asset (let's call it OBI, for "Open Bazaar Integration") to fund the development costs of replacing Bitcoin with Bitshares in the OpenBazaar ecosystem?

Why not just create a worker proposal instead?

Pushing smartcoins instead of BTS would be smarter, imo.

Offline zapata42

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I agree bitUSD/bitEUR/bitCNY/... will be a great addition to businesses like OpenBazaar.

I'm less convinced by the Fee Backet Asset idea.

Why not offering a bounty paid by the reserve fund for the integration of Smart Assets in Open Bazaar?

I'm convinced that more bounties like this (for example for Ledger Nano S wallet integration) could greatly improve the ecosystem (more developers, nice marketing, more features).

Here is the documentation to integrate new coins to openbazaar:
  https://github.com/OpenBazaar/openbazaar-go/blob/master/docs/altcoins.md 

Offline yvv

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Have no idea, I am not a crypto developer. Bitshares may be good enough if you understand how to build apps on top of its api.


Offline chamber

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Thanks for the response!  If not bitshares, what would you recommend instead? 

Offline yvv

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Yes, those who built their business on bitcoin suck these days. Confirmation time is horrible, and fee is ridiculous. Not sure if bitshares would be the best solution to these problems, but they have to do something about this if they want to save their business.