Author Topic: biteur not settled yet. why?  (Read 2093 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mf-tzo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
biteur not settled yet. why?
« on: January 28, 2018, 12:44:05 pm »
Hi guys,

It's been more than 27 hours since I did a force settlement of some biteur and I don't see any bts in my wallet. Why?

As far as I know the biteur should have been settled and converted to bts at the price feed after 24 hours. Now I don't see either biteur either bts? At what price feed will these be settled and when?

Thanks

Offline mf-tzo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: biteur not settled yet. why?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2018, 05:40:33 pm »
any answer from anyone please? I am using the latest client wallet...

Anyone can think any reason why I don't see the respective bts in my wallet?

If this is a bug or a flow then it is a VERY SERIOUS one...

Offline mf-tzo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: biteur not settled yet. why?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2018, 08:33:04 am »
I see now that the eur have been settled. However I was under the impression that this would settle exactly 24h after I press the button. This didn't happen and I think I understand the reasons more or less...

However, if I am a merchant that accepts biteur, want to settle and convert to euro the reasonable thing to do if there is no liquidity is to force settle and know exactly that after 24h I will convert my bts to euro without a loss..What happened in my case due to lack of liquidity is that my biteur settled when i was asleep and woke up this morning just to realize a loss of 6% because bts fall between the settlement time that i was sleeping and now.. This is a very serious issue I think that should be addressed. After I saw this I can not recommend to anyone to accept any bitassets as payment..

Anyway...apparently I am talking to my self and nobody seem to care..

Online abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4570
    • View Profile
    • Abit's Hive Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
Re: biteur not settled yet. why?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2018, 10:33:50 am »
I see now that the eur have been settled. However I was under the impression that this would settle exactly 24h after I press the button. This didn't happen and I think I understand the reasons more or less...

However, if I am a merchant that accepts biteur, want to settle and convert to euro the reasonable thing to do if there is no liquidity is to force settle and know exactly that after 24h I will convert my bts to euro without a loss..What happened in my case due to lack of liquidity is that my biteur settled when i was asleep and woke up this morning just to realize a loss of 6% because bts fall between the settlement time that i was sleeping and now.. This is a very serious issue I think that should be addressed. After I saw this I can not recommend to anyone to accept any bitassets as payment..

Anyway...apparently I am talking to my self and nobody seem to care..
It would settle exactly 24h after press the button, unless you or others have settled too much in same time frame, since globally only 5% of total supply per hour can be settled.

You provided no information, so others are unable to help.
BitShares committee member: abit
BitShares witness: in.abit

Offline mf-tzo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: biteur not settled yet. why?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2018, 05:35:28 pm »
Well it has settled at almost 40 hours after I pressed the button and that same day there was also another bitEUR amount prior to mine that also settled after 24 hours and more. I think it is due to the low liquidity in bitEUR but definitely my order and the other guys order combined i don't think they are close to 5pc of the total supply. How many bitEUR are in existence currently since cryptofresh
 is not working I don't know. In any case I don't feel comfortable sharing my personal trade in the forum with more details so I can not provide with more information. I am ok with my loss, I can live with it but the whole experience made me really nervous and I will think twice before I touch such illiquid market as the bitEUR and this is definitely a shame.. if that ever happens in bitusd or bitcny which are the most liquid bitassets that will be the end of BTS..

I think there are issues that you guys who are much smarter than me should receive think , re evaluate how the whole thing works and upgrade in order to keep our competitive advantage of dex.

Offline crypto4ever

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: biteur not settled yet. why?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2018, 07:09:45 pm »
These forums contain very valuable information.  Answering your question becomes easy with some research.

You [member=1532]mf-tzo[/member] said this:

after 2 years of experimenting I think the best was the first and original rule..depending on demand for bitassets the bitusd could be at a discount or a premium..period..no expiration no SQP and shinny formulas..nothing..traders would short when bitasset was at premium and people would buy bitasset when in discount forcing the peg
Merchants accepting bitusd as a form of payment would know that at some point their bitasset would worth more or less but at least there would be liquidity from traders and the risk for not beeing able to convert all their bitasset in fiat would be minimal..Now after 2 years we have no liquidity, no traders in the DEX nothing..anyway..

Which is is strange, because you didn't like SQP.  Yet you wanted SQP to complete your forced settlement transaction with shiny formulas.

When you ask the blockchain to force settle your transaction it can do that for you when all conditions are met.
1. 24 hours has passed
2. There is enough volume on the market and collateral positions to support a forced settle
3. It meets the requirements of the daily settle limit (which is a percentage of total volume)

It appears that the market for BitEUR does did not give you a 24-hour forced settle because of volume and or/collateral positions.

Which leads to a forced settlement delay.

Here's something else I saw from Xeroc (in that same message thread you posted in) back in 2015 referring to the actual code:

[member=21903]roadscape[/member] did some analysis of the code:

Quote
generally all percent figures in graphene are based on this:
#define GRAPHENE_100_PERCENT 10000
so if the max_force_settlement_vol is 2,000 that would suggest 20%

also I see this:
#define GRAPHENE_DEFAULT_FORCE_SETTLEMENT_MAX_VOLUME (20* GRAPHENE_1_PERCENT)
[member=5]bytemaster[/member]

So, why did it take more than 40+ hours for your forced settlement?

1. Not enough volume
2. Someone else force-settled infront of you in that low volume
3. You must wait for the settlement delay now

All of this was previously discussed with a thread that you were involved in.  Perhaps you just forgot.  I hope this helps you understand now.

I must state: I am not a developer and I am not an expert.  All I did was some research to answer your question.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 07:21:20 pm by crypto4ever »

Offline crypto4ever

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: biteur not settled yet. why?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2018, 07:23:16 pm »
You provided no information, so others are unable to help.

He was part of the thread in 2015 that explained how forced settlement works. He just didn't know where to look for the answer.  I found it for him.

Thanks for [member=18687]abit[/member] for knowing the answer. :)

Offline mf-tzo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: biteur not settled yet. why?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2018, 08:42:42 pm »
[member=30441]crypto4ever[/member] thank you for the explanation and the flashback.

I certainly didn't remember this discussion 2 years ago. Over the last years here I have said too many things and ideas and most of them were most definitely wrong.

Now. I still have no idea about SQP and shiny formulas..I never cared to go that deep and learn the exact process and that is my problem, I do not blame bitshares or anyone. If I still didn't support this community and bitshares I wouldn't still be here after all these years. But what I thought I knew is the following:

1) All bitassets in existence are backed by someone having shorting them into existence and are backed by bts collateral
2) If I press the force settle button, after exactly 24 hours my bitasset will be converted to bts at price feed.

I didn't know that liquidity mattered. I thought that whenever someone force settles the blockchain after 24h will go and margin call the shorters with the least collaterilized position in order to give me those bts at price feed as long as there are no other orders on the order book at price feed. Apparently that is not the case..


Offline crypto4ever

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: biteur not settled yet. why?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2018, 10:11:17 pm »
I didn't know that liquidity mattered. I thought that whenever someone force settles the blockchain after 24h will go and margin call the shorters with the least collaterilized position in order to give me those bts at price feed as long as there are no other orders on the order book at price feed. Apparently that is not the case..

It's to stop attacks on the network by unethical people using the settlement feature for illegitimate reasons. 

It is good the network does that.. but it would help if it gave a warning or explained something in the wallet before you approve the transaction.