Author Topic: suggestion for an committee controlled open market operation fund  (Read 16005 times)

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Offline liberteddy

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If bitcrab's suggestions will be accepted, it's needed to get back 0% fee for bitCNY and bitUSD.

0.1% fee for bit-assets is a workaround to solve the issue at the expense of holders' pockets. There are many people how use bots and bring a liquidity on CNY and USD pairs. 0% for bit-assets was one of a big advantage of Bitshares DEX.

Offline bitcrab

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I don't think this suggestion is "pumping BTS", I think I have expressed clearly that the point is to "adjust smartcoin and BTS supply according to market condition".

You are going to "adjust smartcoin and BTS supply according to market condition". This means that you will try to make actions like Central Banks in most of countries do (they make money emission). And I am sure this actions will be directed to move BTS price up. That's why I say it's "pump". You are going to implement something like "monetary policy" of "Central Bank of Bitshares " and going to decide when buy additional quantity of BTS and when sell it.

But:

1. When Central Banks realize their monetary policy they have calculations and clear vision about the final result. There is no any calculation in your suggestion. You just say "let's try and then we'll see result".

2. Constant changes in the market condition is the nature of every markets, especially in cryptomarkets. This makes it extremely difficult (if at all possible) for any regulations to archive their goals in the longterm.

yes, we may need to introduce economists or CFA to provide more professional analysis and suggestions.

but, I don't think my suggestion is based on nothing, I have suggested to change the force settlement offset compensation and limit to current level, I provide about 20% of current bitCNY and bitUSD supply, I helped magicwallet to build the biggest bitCNY/CNY C2C exchange market, I believe I have enough understanding to the markets.

the so called "Bitshares Central Bank" now has a simple but solid logic base to start, A perfect analysis infrastructure is not ready yet, if you can help to build one, thanks a lot.

trying to do this do not because it easy, but because it is hard.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline codinat

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Offline Thul3

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We should borrow some BTS to generate BitCNY with an collateral ratio of 5. The fees from the BitCNY and BitUSD can buy BTS and refund the borrowed BTS.

But what is the technical problem for not having enough BitCNY now? We need more FIAT/BitFIAT exchanges.

The problem is that each and every other coin is at least 10% undervalued on bitusd/bitcny pair.
That also means the 10% lower price on margin calls have no effect anymore since there is no possibility to buy cheap BTS on DEX to sell them on external exchanges with profit and to send the new coin back to DEX to buy bitcny/bitusd to eat the margin call quickly.
Since there is a leck of bitusd/bitcny liquidity prices of other coins are already 10% under market price and its impossible even when buying the 10% cheaper BTS from margin call to bring funds back to DEX with any profit.
In short words the feature of 10% lower margin call price has no effect at all because there is a lack of bitusd and bitcny.

Offline bench

We should borrow some BTS to generate BitCNY with an collateral ratio of 5. The fees from the BitCNY and BitUSD can buy BTS and refund the borrowed BTS.

But what is the technical problem for not having enough BitCNY now? We need more FIAT/BitFIAT exchanges.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 03:43:50 pm by bench »
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Offline tiancaomei088

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I believe this is a good idea. But it will take a lot of risks.

There are some detail suggestion,
How about we define the 'over supply' and 'under supply' by comparing the current price with feed price?
  if the currenct price is less than feed price, such as 5%, the fund starts borrowing and buyingn untile 4x.
  if more than feed price such as 6%, the fund starts selling bts and refund.


Offline gihar

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I don't think this suggestion is "pumping BTS", I think I have expressed clearly that the point is to "adjust smartcoin and BTS supply according to market condition".

You are going to "adjust smartcoin and BTS supply according to market condition". This means that you will try to make actions like Central Banks in most of countries do (they make money emission). And I am sure this actions will be directed to move BTS price up. That's why I say it's "pump". You are going to implement something like "monetary policy" of "Central Bank of Bitshares " and going to decide when buy additional quantity of BTS and when sell it.

But:

1. When Central Banks realize their monetary policy they have calculations and clear vision about the final result. There is no any calculation in your suggestion. You just say "let's try and then we'll see result".

2. Constant changes in the market condition is the nature of every markets, especially in cryptomarkets. This makes it extremely difficult (if at all possible) for any regulations to archive their goals in the longterm.

Offline bitcrab

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Frankly speaking this suggestion should be formulated shorter like this: "Let's pump bts using reserve pool funds!"
IMHO, the pumping is definitely NOT that thing that Bitshares need "to make Bitshares great again". If somebode wants to pump let him do it with his own funds and not with the reserve pool. This  suggestion smels like market manipulation in it's worse kind.

I don't think this suggestion is "pumping BTS", I think I have expressed clearly that the point is to "adjust smartcoin and BTS supply according to market condition".

I think BTS will be great if the problem of smartcoin shortage can be resolved with the help of these open market operations.

I think and also hope this suggestion can help BTS price to go up, but this is not the logic base to do open market operations.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline gihar

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Frankly speaking this suggestion should be formulated shorter like this: "Let's pump bts using reserve pool funds!"
IMHO, the pumping is definitely NOT that thing that Bitshares need "to make Bitshares great again". If somebode wants to pump let him do it with his own funds and not with the reserve pool. This  suggestion smels like market manipulation in it's worse kind.

Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Over 1 billion BTS are sleeping, it is really a big waste, we need to make good use of it. 

Generally I agree with bitcrab's proposal, especially in such market situation.

However, I would also suggest that all actions need to be fully discussed and conducted publicly, just like what the Federal Reserve does.

Also, the fund in the inflation pool is different from the fees pool, it is better to be used to create the buy wall to avoid further price drop, instead of simply buying up the price. When the price of BTS goes up, we may even sell to close the debt position.  Anyway, 4 times of collateral is not 100% percent safe in extreme market situation. 
BTS committee member:jademont

Offline bitcrab

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I'll take the current market conditions into considerations when next talking about the BBF worker proposal. So far, it used to buy bitUSD off the market and did not go short on bitUSD yet.
The reasons was mainly due to liabilities against the actual workers that have a right for their pay and going short adds a risk .. as well as for accounting which needs to be transparent and easy to follow ...
I'll re-iterate with the BBF over the previous decision to stick with "buying" ..

something depend on the purpose and operate logic of the worker proposals, the "committee controlled open market operation fund" WP is to give impact to smartcoin supply like a central bank, so definitely it can add more smartcoin supply to the market only by borrowing, buying smartcoin in the market will not help to increase the smartcoin supply.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 05:03:40 am by bitcrab »
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Offline bitcrab

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Sounds like a fair enough experiment, however I feel these are to jump start the market and should not be permanent.

-Is there a set liquidity goal where the worker will not be required any longer?
-Plan of action to maintain that 4x collateral ratio in big price down trends? Committee will need to act quick, perhaps daily adjustments required?
-Phase out plan to settle all the outstanding debt if liquidity reaches x goal?

in my opinion it is not defined permanent, but possibly it will last long time.
a metric to decide how to operate is whether bitCNY/bitUSD is over supplied or is in shortage, and the fund need to have enough BTS/smartcoin to give apparent impact to the market while necessary.
I can not tell "how much BTS/smartcoin" does this fund need?" but I think the answer will be clear half or one year later.
I prefer to not let the committee-account to operate each trade/borrowing, let smaller team - committee-cnytrader and committee-trade to do the trade and borrowing activity, committee-account can be responsible for the distribution of the BTS get from the worker proposal.
if sometime in the future a clear trend begin that smartcoin continuely behaves as over supplied, then the the fund will begin to sell BTS and reduce debt position. however, I don't think we should set "close debt position" as a final goal.


« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 03:03:10 am by bitcrab »
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Offline ebit

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support.
why?
binance chain  will  fuck  bitshares chain.

in  my opinion  , community could create ioucny iouusd with
 backed  1 billion bts.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 12:10:17 am by ebit »
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https://weibo.com/ebiter

Offline Brekyrself

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Sounds like a fair enough experiment, however I feel these are to jump start the market and should not be permanent.

-Is there a set liquidity goal where the worker will not be required any longer?
-Plan of action to maintain that 4x collateral ratio in big price down trends? Committee will need to act quick, perhaps daily adjustments required?
-Phase out plan to settle all the outstanding debt if liquidity reaches x goal?

Offline Thul3

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Quote
Now smartcoins like bitCNY have big demand, but are always in serious shortage, this limit the adoption of smartcoins and also the development of trading in DEX.

BitUSD has also a shortage else the prices of other coins on DEX wouldn't be 10% under market value against bitUSD when market is going downwards.
The max. loss of 10% is also not right because if the amount of collateral is big there is not enough liquidity to buy such a big amount instantly which could lead to bigger loss if prices keep moving down.

I'm for more liquidty in bitUSD and bitCNY which is badly needed however it needs an update in collateral system first to be able to handle big collateral amounts in a proper way
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 07:30:40 pm by Thul3 »