Author Topic: review the drastic fall  (Read 4156 times)

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Offline valtr

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We don't need to protect your asset.Start selling your BTS to lower your CR and there will be no problem anymore instead of looking for conspiracy theory of attackers waiting to harm your Collateral
Can you please act more like an adult and refrain from attaching people personally? Thank you!

Furthermore, I appreciate that @bitcrab describes what is going on in his perspective, even though people may disagree with his conclusions.
There are forces in play that seem to have sufficient liquidity to place with BTS valuation, and that is not the first time.

As a committee member, I (and bitcrab) need to make sure that the core value proposition of bitassets is kept and we follow different
procedures to achieve that. Bitcrab seems to be more experimental friendly than others and I like that he can freely discuss those in
the forums. Personal attacks are inacceptable - no matter what!

Other than that, conflicting interests are only natural and they should be address, but this thread was to discuss consequences of trades as
they happend in the past and learn from them.
xeroc is right

Offline Thul3

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Bitcrab seems to be more experimental friendly

You mean the break of all point on the WP consensus ?
Or Bitcrab buying his own margin call using commitee funds ?

You call that experimental ?

What is going to happen if everyone starts to be experimental and start breaking each point of their WP ?

But you back even this behavior up and give indirect permission to do so.


Funny he sees this problem once his fake buy wall got eaten up because of external price feeds where he already declared to add new ones and now its a clear attempt to make the buy walls stronger so they can't be taken down anymore.

This is not how a free market wors.Your actions is breaking all principals and is also being used for self benefit and i won't stop informing people about the unacceptable behavior which needs to be changed.

You are using community funds and have ZERO transperancy at all.Decide based on your guts and most important are taking risk which the community never agreed on.

Lowering the Ratio under 2 for the commitee accounts should lead to an instant kick out of the accounts expecially since the accounts had no targeted CR enabled.

You call that being experimental ?


I call that being out of control and leaving all principles which is unacceptable

Offline xeroc

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We don't need to protect your asset.Start selling your BTS to lower your CR and there will be no problem anymore instead of looking for conspiracy theory of attackers waiting to harm your Collateral
Can you please act more like an adult and refrain from attaching people personally? Thank you!

Furthermore, I appreciate that @bitcrab describes what is going on in his perspective, even though people may disagree with his conclusions.
There are forces in play that seem to have sufficient liquidity to place with BTS valuation, and that is not the first time.

As a committee member, I (and bitcrab) need to make sure that the core value proposition of bitassets is kept and we follow different
procedures to achieve that. Bitcrab seems to be more experimental friendly than others and I like that he can freely discuss those in
the forums. Personal attacks are inacceptable - no matter what!

Other than that, conflicting interests are only natural and they should be address, but this thread was to discuss consequences of trades as
they happend in the past and learn from them.

Offline Thul3

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We don't need to protect your asset.Start selling your BTS to lower your CR and there will be no problem anymore instead of looking for conspiracy theory of attackers waiting to harm your Collateral

Offline bitcrab

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what we want is just to avoid the price maunipulation from outside DEX.

Who/how can manipulate the price from outside of DEX?

sometimes traders can sell big in centralized exchange and then lower the feed price to make some debt position margin called and eat the margin called order.

long long ago, this happen a lot in poloniex but now seldom because now a lot big exchanges list BTS so it's not easy to manipulate the feed price.

OK, so you are trying to create a solution to the problem that doesn't exist/is small/is improbable.


it's clear that today BTS's falling down is not so related to BTC, BTC fell down slowly today, and the lowest price even do not touch yesterday's lowest price.

it's clear that the BTS's chart is somehow independent, clearly that some shorters find the chance and attack accuratelly.

it's a pity that now it's still so easy for shorters to attack BTS.

BTS need to evolve rapidly to discourage shorting, one price feeding relevangt suggestion is here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26914.0

"it's not easy to manipulate the feed price" vs "it's a pity that now it's still so easy for shorters to attack BTS"... I'm confused now, is it easy or not?

more than 1 year ago, when poloniex is almost the only one big CEX that list BTS, manipulation is very easy, now it is not so easy as before, but it is possible and not so difficult, we need to make it almost impossible.
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Offline paliboy

what we want is just to avoid the price maunipulation from outside DEX.

Who/how can manipulate the price from outside of DEX?

sometimes traders can sell big in centralized exchange and then lower the feed price to make some debt position margin called and eat the margin called order.

long long ago, this happen a lot in poloniex but now seldom because now a lot big exchanges list BTS so it's not easy to manipulate the feed price.

OK, so you are trying to create a solution to the problem that doesn't exist/is small/is improbable.


it's clear that today BTS's falling down is not so related to BTC, BTC fell down slowly today, and the lowest price even do not touch yesterday's lowest price.

it's clear that the BTS's chart is somehow independent, clearly that some shorters find the chance and attack accuratelly.

it's a pity that now it's still so easy for shorters to attack BTS.

BTS need to evolve rapidly to discourage shorting, one price feeding relevangt suggestion is here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26914.0

"it's not easy to manipulate the feed price" vs "it's a pity that now it's still so easy for shorters to attack BTS"... I'm confused now, is it easy or not?

Offline bitcrab

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Stop trying to control the price feed to dictate BTS price.

You are going way to far and proofing all you care was holding the price 1.08 CNY at all cost

yes, if I can I will sell you to human trader and then buy BTS with the income.
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Offline Thul3

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Stop trying to control the price feed to dictate BTS price.

You are going way to far and proofing all you care was holding the price 1.08 CNY at all cost
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 05:51:34 pm by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

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below are today's chart of BTC and BTS





it's clear that today BTS's falling down is not so related to BTC, BTC fell down slowly today, and the lowest price even do not touch yesterday's lowest price.

it's clear that the BTS's chart is somehow independent, clearly that some shorters find the chance and attack accuratelly.

it's a pity that now it's still so easy for shorters to attack BTS.

BTS need to evolve rapidly to discourage shorting, one price feeding relevangt suggestion is here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26914.0

« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 04:26:05 pm by bitcrab »
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline Thul3

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what we want is just to avoid the price maunipulation from outside DEX.

Which means dictating the price from DEX so a buy wall like before can't get crashed anymore even it had an unnatural price.

Its funny you blame the fall of the buy wall on BTC pair price manipulation but not on manipulation of BTS price on DEX

no doubt OMO need to long BTS, the problem is just how to do that with high efficiency and low risk. the buying wall has nothing to do with manipulation.

and in the future OMO definitely will continue to create "unnatural" price in front of you.

if all you just want is to enable yourself to short BTS more conveniently, sorry I have little to discuss with you.



First of all you should question yourself as commitee member.


You broke every single point in your WP and didn't even appologized for it.
You didn't asked the community for approval for changing it or even discussed about it.
Next you have no transperancy at all and its clear you are willing to take a way higher risk using RP funds than using
spring fund for which you are personal liable.
Next thing is your superciliousness may break your neck and the negativ effect you are going to create will harm the whole bitshares community.
If you don't understand economics than i may explain it to you in an easy way.There is no diffrence in your current action with the actions of central banks producing money out of air and manipulating prices.

Instead of putting your interrest of growing the members on DEX you put your interrest in BTS price ONLY.
I will also give you a free adive.If your margin is to high start selling a small portion.Thats what everyone is doing when they have to much margin and stop using community funds to protect your margin.
This way your margin won't get called and you don't need to blame market manipulation

The worst part is now you even try to dicate the price feed so you have full control over BTS price using these amount of funds so since you are clearly misusing the OMO funds ,lacking of any transparancy ,trying to even increase your control on DEX and being so arrogant i will take away my vote and will from now on make your actions public informing the public of your price manipulation and trying to dictate the BTS price till you resign from the OMO fund as you as a person shouldn't run at all such a community fund as you clearly have personal interest issues and an ego where everyone else would be long time kicked out as commitee.

I will repeat you broke every point of your WP and you have ZERO transparency ,fucked the margin Ratio and still i don't see a single word of appology or even a for the sake of the smallest change of transparency

Therefor i will activly advertise to get your out of the OMO fund as you are clearly breaking all trust and acting like a dick who have the right to do anything on DEX
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 11:59:06 am by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

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what we want is just to avoid the price maunipulation from outside DEX.

Which means dictating the price from DEX so a buy wall like before can't get crashed anymore even it had an unnatural price.

Its funny you blame the fall of the buy wall on BTC pair price manipulation but not on manipulation of BTS price on DEX

no doubt OMO need to long BTS, the problem is just how to do that with high efficiency and low risk. the buying wall has nothing to do with manipulation.

and in the future OMO definitely will continue to create "unnatural" price in front of you.

if all you just want is to enable yourself to short BTS more conveniently, sorry I have little to discuss with you.

 
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline bitcrab

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what we want is just to avoid the price maunipulation from outside DEX.

Who/how can manipulate the price from outside of DEX?

sometimes traders can sell big in centralized exchange and then lower the feed price to make some debt position margin called and eat the margin called order.

long long ago, this happen a lot in poloniex but now seldom because now a lot big exchanges list BTS so it's not easy to manipulate the feed price.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline paliboy

what we want is just to avoid the price maunipulation from outside DEX.

Who/how can manipulate the price from outside of DEX?

Offline Thul3

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what we want is just to avoid the price maunipulation from outside DEX.

Which means dictating the price from DEX so a buy wall like before can't get crashed anymore even it had an unnatural price.

Its funny you blame the fall of the buy wall on BTC pair price manipulation but not on manipulation of BTS price on DEX

Offline paliboy

some factor play the key role to trigger the drastic fall, it is the big debt position.

after the 719 hard fork, target CR feature is enabled, however, unfortunately, GUI does not support this new feature until after the drastic fall.

some big debt position, including mine, are margin called at the begining of the fall, and quickly lead to drastic fall.

if the big debt position could have set target CR, things would be much better, as we can see, in other time, the BTS price change slowly.

so is the cowork of OMO+ spring fund to support the price make sense?  yes, even now I think it make sense, but the problem is that we under evaluate the impact of big debt positions without target CR setting...

Assuming that target collateral ratio is implemented as designed and doesn't contain bugs, it should not influence the price in any way. It's just a nice feature for big debt positions so that they are partially protected.

E.g. there are two big positions called (2 mil bitUSD and 1 mil. bitUSD in this order). A buyer with 0.5 mil bitUSD places an order to buy BTS.

Before hard fork, buyer gets what he wants and two positons will be still called (1.5 mil bitUSD and 1 mil bitUSD in this order no matter what CR these two positions have - a bug).

After hard for, buyer gets what he wants and two positons will be still called (1.5 mil bitUSD and 1 mil bitUSD, order depends on new CRs that are counted immediately after order is filled).

Optionally, both debt position owners can set target collateral ratio which could effectively protect the first one but it has no effect on market price - this only depends on buyers and sellers.