Author Topic: suggestion to witnesses on "the highest one" CNY price feeding model  (Read 15766 times)

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Offline Thul3

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I'd say, let the market decide for a "fair" price of BTS (in CNY)

Using unnatural massiv buy walls and community funds to "maintane BTS price"?That is more like centralised plan business in the 80's which we all now where it leaded


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Assuming strong arbitrage, we can say that the volume of that exchange that has the fairest valuation of BTS price also has
the highest volume.

I would agree on that if there were no massiv targeted interventions to keep a price up.Buying BTS in batches is something diffrent than creating buy walls.And you guys still have no official rules or transparency how you will use the commitee accounts in future (beside bitcrabs statement about keeping building unnatural prices) i can't agree on this without having any clear rules and most important transparancy about the OMO.


I would like first to get clear answers if the OMO will still be used to create big unnatural buy walls or if it will be used like it was supposed to buy BTS in batches on diffrent prices depending on the CR and What kind of Ratio allows the commitee accounts to buy more BTS



« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 01:00:35 pm by Thul3 »

Offline gghi

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      充值手续费长期为正是不合理的,尤其是目前已经偏离很大了,我们应该想办法阻止这种现象。

     bts是要锚定成功,什么是锚定成功,对于bitcny来说,充值费用为零就是最完美的锚定成功。
 
      充值手续费经常很高,bitcny波动很大,不利于bts的价格稳定上升。我认为可以从充值手续费上做文章,有三种情况分析,第一,充值费用为零,说明状态很好,锚定稳定了。第二,充值费用很高,说明bitcny供应不足,那么应该把充值费率用加上见证人的喂价作为系统喂价,以提高喂价的方式维持锚定的稳定。第三,充值费用倒贴,也就是为负的情况,说明bitcny供应过大,那么用负费率加见证人的喂价作为系统喂价,以降低喂价的方式维持锚定的稳定。

          喂价要修正,通过鼓鼓充值费率加上见证人的喂价作为系统喂价,可以避免充值费率变化很大,更好的锚定1BITCNY=1元。
       比如 ,见证人喂价1元,充值费百分之十,那么系统喂价则1.1。只要充值费为正,就可以拉高喂价,从而降低充值费率。这样的动态修正的结果,就是可以保证充值费率可以长时间的在0元附近,也就是保证了bitcny对人民币的锚定在很小的范围内变化。


              只要充值费为正,那么我们就可以加上去,不要担心会偏离市场价格,因为内盘价格足够高的时候充值费会为负的。





BTS is anchoring success, what is anchoring success, for bitcny, zero charge is the most perfect anchoring success.

The charging fee is often very high, and bitcny fluctuates greatly, which is not conducive to the stable rise of BTS prices. I think we can make an article from the charge, there are three kinds of situation analysis, first, the charge is zero, indicating that the state is good, anchoring stability. Secondly, the high cost of recharge indicates that the supply of bitcny is insufficient, so the rate of recharge should be used as the system feeding with the witness's feeding price, in order to improve the feeding way to maintain the stability of anchoring. Thirdly, the reverse charge, i.e. negative case, shows that the supply of bitcny is too large, then use the negative rate plus the witness's feed as the system feed price to maintain the anchoring stability by reducing the feed price.

Feeding to be revised, through drum charging rate plus witness feeding as a system feeding, you can avoid charging rate changes greatly, better anchoring 1 BITCNY = 1 yuan.
For example, the witness's feeding price is 1 yuan, the recharge fee is ten percent, then the system feed price is 1.1. As long as the charging fee is positive, the feed price can be raised, thereby reducing the recharge rate. The result of this dynamic correction is that the charging rate can be kept near 0 yuan for a long time, that is to say, the anchoring of Bicny to RMB can be changed in a small range.






           
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 12:14:57 pm by gghi »

Offline xeroc

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Every witness need to add the BTS trading pair of magicwallet+fee/CNC(AEX)/QC(ZB)/USDT(HUOBI,ZB,GATE,AEX) to the feed price.

I think this is were we should go.

The purpose of the volume-weighted average (in contrast to median) strategy is to let market decide the actual price.
Assuming strong arbitrage, we can say that the volume of that exchange that has the fairest valuation of BTS price also has
the highest volume. With the volume-weighted average, this would also result in a higher weight in the feed calculation at
the witnesses.

I'd say, let the market decide for a "fair" price of BTS (in CNY) and

* add DEX to price feeds
* keep CEXs in price feed
* add magic wallet to price feeds

After that, derive *volume-weighted average*.

If market decides that 1 bitCNY is worth 1.06 CNY, then the 6% premium is market driven and could be justified by the additional utilty of smartcoins - IMHO

Offline bitcrab

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this comment will focus on the problem "is the current feed price accurate enough?"

to find the answer, let's check if one trader want to buy/sell BTS with fiat CNY, what price is avaliable?

here is the price chart at the time of UCT+8 13th, 17:00


at the time the price has been stable for half an hour and the latest price is 0.805.

at the moment the fee/compensation for bitCNY deposit/withdraw in magicwallet is as below:

deposit:


withdraw:


so let's set bitCNY premium =6%

so in DEX 0.805*1.06=0.853 is a close to "real" price.

but at the moment the feed price, the median of all fed prices, is 0.84, 1% more lower.

if you check in different time, you can find the more than 1% deviation to lower is always the case.

in a financial system, this deviation is not acceptable.


recently CNY are in high devaluation expectation, in DEX the bitUSD/bitCNY ratio are alway higher than 7, but the bitUSD/bitCNY fee price ratio are still always lower than 6.88, clearly many witness still use the officially published USD/CNY ratio to do price conversion, but this is far from market reality and the algorithm need to be upgraded.

this help to explain why there is so big deviation, official published USD/CNY ratio are used to do the price conversion by some witnesses, but CNY/USD is not totally free market and now one cannot buy USD using CNY with the official ratio, this and other factors make the calculated feed price incorrect.
 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 09:49:57 am by bitcrab »
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Offline bitcrab

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we need to pay more attention on DEX, DEX is decentralized and more transparent than CEX, and BTS/bitCNY pair in DEX has the biggest BTS volume on the earth, it's easy to do bitCNY/fiat CNY conversion, DEX price should be the base reference for CNY price feeding.

the margin call rule is designed to release risk in time, not to provide chance for shorters to make profit, if there are too much chances for shorters, shorters will take the money from longers and keep on shorting, this will hurt the whole ecosystem, the suggestion is not to change the basic logic of a financial system with leverage, but to provide more convenience to longers, and then give more power for the ecosystem to grow.

within "the highest price" model, shorters can also short, but need to pull down the prices in all the involved exchanges and then can make the feed price down, and debt positions are protected from targeting activities or unusual events, all this encourages longers.

and this will help to make DEX the main long-short the war field, this also benefit the field.

recently CNY are in high devaluation expectation, in DEX the bitUSD/bitCNY ratio are alway higher than 7, but the bitUSD/bitCNY fee price ratio are still always lower than 6.88, clearly many witness still use the officially published USD/CNY ratio to do price conversion, but this is far from market reality and the algorithm need to be upgraded.

to speed up the upgrade of price feeding, proxy bitcrab begin to unvote the witness that behave unsatisfactory in price feeding.

in current check point, DEX latest BTS price:0.766bitCNY, bitCNY premium 7.3%, reference price:0.822 CNY.
the median feed price is 0.8087 at the point, please don't say "my price is close to the median so works well" , the median price is not good now and what we try to do is to change this.

delegate-1.lafona always feed too low price in the recent several check, so now proxy bitcrab unvote the witness temporarily.



magicwallet is planning to provide a feed price monitor page, to show data from each witness in a candle chart, then it will be easy to see which witness provide good price feeding and which does not.





« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:28:20 am by bitcrab »
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Offline gghi

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  巨蟹的思路式对的,目前喂价必须改,巨蟹还是保守了点。目前的喂价应是鼓鼓充值费率加见证人的喂价作为系统喂价才合理。



 充值手续费经常很高,bitcny波动很大,不利于bts的价格稳定上升。我认为可以从充值手续费上做文章,有三种情况分析,第一,充值费用喂零,说明状态很好,锚定稳定了。第二,充值费用很高,说明bitcny供应不足,那么应该把充值费率用加上见证人的喂价作为系统喂价,以提高喂价的方式维持锚定的稳定。第三,充值费用倒贴,也就是为负的情况,说明bitcny供应过大,那么用负费率加见证人的喂价作为系统喂价,以降低喂价的方式维持锚定的稳定。
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 04:17:58 am by gghi »

Offline binggo

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« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 02:38:35 pm by binggo »

Offline binggo

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we support the suggestion of bitcrab. just do it!


Don't talk for all.Majority doesnt support it
Don't talk for all.Majority support it

We are well aware that you are a puppet from bitcrab and everyone supporting this shit was part of crashing the commitee accounts which needs now to be bailed out with community funds.

ebit,jademont,bitcrab and these people are trying now to get us the "highest one" model.....

Somebody claimed because it's based on highest volume.Lets do it based on highest volume but i highly doubt bitcrab would accept it since it would mean we would accept mainly the price of DEX.Since DEX is always under feed price in a bear market what sence would it make to lower the feed price and cause the next margin call wave.....
So the smart bitcrab is going to take only the feed price from DEX when it is supposed to help him to stop his margin calls.
So when is DEX price in a bear market going to be higher than the current price feed ?
Answer.......only when he puts a big buy wall again like last time.And taking that high unnatural price as feed price will make that the buy wall won't be eaten so quickly even the rest of the market is going massivly down.

Its a clear feature to strenght his manipulation attempt which majority doesn't accept as it has nothing to do with attacks or anything which bitcrab himself confirmed its not so easy anymore and he put that request instantly after his buy wall got eaten because his low margin ratio have been called as external exchanges had a lower price as the price on DEX which were manipulated by his 5 million BTS wall.


Just clearly say the purpose of that change is to strengthen the buy walls so they can't get crushed anymore even the price doesn't represent the value buyers are willing to pay.Creating a centralised controlled price which has nothing to do anymore with free market.

If you argument that DEX has the highest volume then also accept the lower price of DEX as price feed since based on your argument its also the most representiv as it has the highest volume.
Don't pick only the timeframes out which are in your personal favour to manipulate

Thul3, please don't like a dog shouting everywhere and everybody!!!
             just shut up!!!

Offline Thul3

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we support the suggestion of bitcrab. just do it!


Don't talk for all.Majority doesnt support it
Don't talk for all.Majority support it

We are well aware that you are a puppet from bitcrab and everyone supporting this shit was part of crashing the commitee accounts which needs now to be bailed out with community funds.

ebit,jademont,bitcrab and these people are trying now to get us the "highest one" model.....

Somebody claimed because it's based on highest volume.Lets do it based on highest volume but i highly doubt bitcrab would accept it since it would mean we would accept mainly the price of DEX.Since DEX is always under feed price in a bear market what sence would it make to lower the feed price and cause the next margin call wave.....
So the smart bitcrab is going to take only the feed price from DEX when it is supposed to help him to stop his margin calls.
So when is DEX price in a bear market going to be higher than the current price feed ?
Answer.......only when he puts a big buy wall again like last time.And taking that high unnatural price as feed price will make that the buy wall won't be eaten so quickly even the rest of the market is going massivly down.

Its a clear feature to strenght his manipulation attempt which majority doesn't accept as it has nothing to do with attacks or anything which bitcrab himself confirmed its not so easy anymore and he put that request instantly after his buy wall got eaten because his low margin ratio have been called as external exchanges had a lower price as the price on DEX which were manipulated by his 5 million BTS wall.


Just clearly say the purpose of that change is to strengthen the buy walls so they can't get crushed anymore even the price doesn't represent the value buyers are willing to pay.Creating a centralised controlled price which has nothing to do anymore with free market.

If you argument that DEX has the highest volume then also accept the lower price of DEX as price feed since based on your argument its also the most representiv as it has the highest volume.
Don't pick only the timeframes out which are in your personal favour to manipulate
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 09:15:46 am by Thul3 »

Offline ymtt

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we support the suggestion of bitcrab. just do it!


Don't talk for all.Majority doesnt support it
Don't talk for all.Majority support it

Offline Thul3

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we support the suggestion of bitcrab. just do it!


Don't talk for all.Majority doesnt support it

Offline hzbtstalker001

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we support the suggestion of bitcrab. just do it!

Offline bitcrab

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select a time and check the feed price

at the time in DEX the latest price is 0.728 bitCNY, from magicwallet we can see bitCNY has a 7.8% premium, so the price in DEX is 0.728*1.078 = 0.785



the marked red feed prices are 2% more lower than the DEX price and are not satisfactory.



the point is not how big 2% is, the point is that the debt position should be protected until the last time, should be prevented from being destroyed by any unusual events in any exchanges, that's the core idea of "the highest one" road.

hope more witnesses can switch to this price feeding model in recent future.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 05:13:47 pm by bitcrab »
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Offline bitcrab

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the way i see it that markets are always on the move. every witness is running pricefeed scripts monitoring the markets. this should be as accurate as possible sand have certain treshold when to update parameters in place. some witnesses run updates at fixed intervals, others whenever price changes by x percent or a combination of both. pricefeeds are always reactive to the market and some witnesses respond faster or frequenter then others  or have different parameters for example in weight of individual exchanges. this leaves to differences in published feeds and that is something which is when dealing with this living organic oracle a good thing I think. because the ultimate pricefeed is taken from the median any anomalities are equalled out, provided enough witnesses are running correct pricefeedscripts.

that said, i will give a look whether my markets-to-monitor portfolio is still accurate.
clockwork suggested about cointiger. i will add that one asap.

currently looking at https://roelandp.nl/bitshareswitnesslog/ i see my feed for CNY diverges 1.7% from the current median: (1.27 vs 1.25) which I think is perfectly within bounds.

on my aforementioned page, pricefeeds with divergence of more than 5% off median are reported in red as well as outdated pricefeeds

update: to chime in on the “markets always moving statement”: now im looking 1 hour later at my feed and see a difference of 0.9% from the median (1.24) in my published feed at 1.25.

note that the page caches results for 15 minutes.

my suggestion give some new idea on price feeding, in order to protect debt positions from being destroyed by targeting attacks or unusual events as mentioned below.

we observed such CEX behavior not once, especially on poloniex when they closing withdraw/deposit and dumping bts
dex community must protect themselves from such behavior

so if we accept the new model, the metrics to judge whether one withess feed price correct enough will be different: say, if your fed price are always obviously (more than 1%) lower than the price of anyone exchange, you should fix it.
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Offline blockchained

we observed such CEX behavior not once, especially on poloniex when they closing withdraw/deposit and dumping bts
dex community must protect themselves from such behavior