[worker proposal] - Poll on implementing updated BSIP42 on bitCNY

[bitcrab]

you guys really don't realize how critical  this manipulation will result.
A very simple example, when a potential buyer(buy BTS with CNY) known there is a posibble the margin call order will lower than 10%,
he will just stop buy until it reach.
And a potential seller(sell CNY for fiat CNY) will stop sell CNY for even 5% profit, instead they will wait for 10% profit.
The results is that traders don't known what will happen next, they just stop and wait.

if this poll get more support than 1.4.119, trader will know that bitCNY will not have a 10% premium, they know what to do.
maybe bitCNY holders will regret to lose chance to buy cheaper BTS, but it benefit the whole ecosystem as BTS need not to reach lower price and traders need not to suffer high premium of bitCNY.
this method is far from perfect, hope you can participate more in the discussion of the alternative solution of BSIP42.

[alt]

Why do you support if you don't understand how this will work?
are you paly baby game again?

Even though I am not convinced this approach will work, I support this as a temporary meassure until we can use the MCR more dynamically.

[alt]

I support reduce MSSR to 2% instead of any complex feed price adjustment(manipulation)

I support reduce MSSR to 5%.

• The simpler the rule, the more robust it is. Simply adjusting MSSR has fewer variables affecting the market.
• MSSR reduced from 10% to 5%, the number of BTS sold by closed margin postions will be reduced by 5%, and there is still 5% arbitrage space between CEX and DEX.
• At present, the application scenario of stable-currency is used by digital currency investors to hedge against the market when they fall. For hedging, 5% volatility is not unacceptable. We need precise anchoring only for payment.

Yes, I accept any MSSR value between 2% and 10%.
the best way is to announce reduce step by step from 10%, this can help encourage people eatern the margin call orders.

[alt]

you guys really don't realize how critical  this manipulation will result.
A very simple example, when a potential buyer(buy BTS with CNY) known there is a posibble the margin call order will lower than 10%,
he will just stop buy until it reach.
And a potential seller(sell CNY for fiat CNY) will stop sell CNY for even 5% profit, instead they will wait for 10% profit.
The results is that traders don't known what will happen next, they just stop and wait.

[xeroc]

Even though I am not convinced this approach will work, I support this as a temporary meassure until we can use the MCR more dynamically.

[Yao]

I support reduce MSSR to 2% instead of any complex feed price adjustment(manipulation)

I support reduce MSSR to 5%.

• The simpler the rule, the more robust it is. Simply adjusting MSSR has fewer variables affecting the market.
• MSSR reduced from 10% to 5%, the number of BTS sold by closed margin postions will be reduced by 5%, and there is still 5% arbitrage space between CEX and DEX.
• At present, the application scenario of stable-currency is used by digital currency investors to hedge against the market when they fall. For hedging, 5% volatility is not unacceptable. We need precise anchoring only for payment.

[abit]

I support reduce MSSR to 2% instead of any complex feed price adjustment(manipulation)

I think the BSIP42 this time is just an emergency plan, and there will be a better solution later.

I don't understand why we need this temporary complex way when we just need to simple reduce the MSSR.
As my observation, it's already a very difficult task for those witness to give a reasonable real market price.
You should never  expect more from them.
We must limited the power from them or they will screw up again.

we learned a lot in the long painful process.

if what we want is just increase the price of the stayed margin call orders, the 2 ways really have similar impact, after that margin call orders being eaten, they have different impacts:

1. raise BTS feed price can increase bitCNY supply, tuning MSSR does not.

The difference is simple: increased bitCNY supply with same amount of collateral means lower collateral ratio thus higher risk, especially when in a downtrend. It's just impossible to meet all requirements / expectations.

2. dynamically tuning feed price include the negative feedback logic that can help peg, setting a fixed MSSR value does not.

we design complex solution because the world is complex.

I know that you do not like BSIP42, however this time I am proposing an updated version, it limit the feed price not higher to market price*MSSR to avoid that margin call orders stay their without being eaten, it limit the feed price not lower than market price to avoid unreasonable margin calling. I believe this remove the impacts that you dislike.

however this is still a temporary solution, later some new solution will be discussed sufficiently to replace this one, it should include:

1. dynamic MCR
2. new measure to handle black swan that do not stop borrowing.
3. MSSR change

I understand that we cannot make bitCNY a stable coin that always own sufficient collateral, good pegging and sufficient supply, but we have chance to reach a point that is close to that point, and that really need careful design.

hope you can understand and help in the process.

[bitcrab]

why don't we improve step by step?
I guess reduce MSSR will be more easy to reach the concenses.
But dynamic tuning the MCR is not acceptable for me,  at least you need to give enough time to the shorters before adjustment the MCR.
you just can't make me margin call when you decide to increase the MCR next seconds. I consider this as   manipulation.

I understand that letting witness tune MCR introduce much uncertainty, so now in my mind it will be better if we can do this in another way, like:

1.witnesses just feed market price and premium.

2.system tune MCR periodically based on the fed premium, for example the rule can be: system adjust MCR every hour, if premium is inside -2%-1%, do not adjust the MCR, otherwise, tune it 0.001(start point 1.75) to according direction. 

maybe need to set max and min limit on MCR, for example 1.25-2.

however I am not sure whether this is technological possible and whether community can reach consensus on this.

[alt]

I support reduce MSSR to 2% instead of any complex feed price adjustment(manipulation)

I think the BSIP42 this time is just an emergency plan, and there will be a better solution later.

I don't understand why we need this temporary complex way when we just need to simple reduce the MSSR.
As my observation, it's already a very difficult task for those witness to give a reasonable real market price.
You should never  expect more from them.
We must limited the power from them or they will screw up again.

we learned a lot in the long painful process.

if what we want is just increase the price of the stayed margin call orders, the 2 ways really have similar impact, after that margin call orders being eaten, they have different impacts:

1. raise BTS feed price can increase bitCNY supply, tuning MSSR does not.

2. dynamically tuning feed price include the negative feedback logic that can help peg, setting a fixed MSSR value does not.

we design complex solution because the world is complex.

I know that you do not like BSIP42, however this time I am proposing an updated version, it limit the feed price not higher to market price*MSSR to avoid that margin call orders stay their without being eaten, it limit the feed price not lower than market price to avoid unreasonable margin calling. I believe this remove the impacts that you dislike.

however this is still a temporary solution, later some new solution will be discussed sufficiently to replace this one, it should include:

1. dynamic MCR
2. new measure to handle black swan that do not stop borrowing.
3. MSSR change

I understand that we cannot make bitCNY a stable coin that always own sufficient collateral, good pegging and sufficient supply, but we have chance to reach a point that is close to that point, and that really need careful design.

hope you can understand and help in the process.

why don't we improve step by step?
I guess reduce MSSR will be more easy to reach the concenses.
But dynamic tuning the MCR is not acceptable for me,  at least you need to give enough time to the shorters before adjustment the MCR.
you just can't make me margin call when you decide to increase the MCR next seconds. I consider this as   manipulation.

[bitcrab]

I support reduce MSSR to 2% instead of any complex feed price adjustment(manipulation)

I think the BSIP42 this time is just an emergency plan, and there will be a better solution later.

I don't understand why we need this temporary complex way when we just need to simple reduce the MSSR.
As my observation, it's already a very difficult task for those witness to give a reasonable real market price.
You should never  expect more from them.
We must limited the power from them or they will screw up again.

we learned a lot in the long painful process.

if what we want is just increase the price of the stayed margin call orders, the 2 ways really have similar impact, after that margin call orders being eaten, they have different impacts:

1. raise BTS feed price can increase bitCNY supply, tuning MSSR does not.

2. dynamically tuning feed price include the negative feedback logic that can help peg, setting a fixed MSSR value does not.

we design complex solution because the world is complex.

I know that you do not like BSIP42, however this time I am proposing an updated version, it limit the feed price not higher to market price*MSSR to avoid that margin call orders stay their without being eaten, it limit the feed price not lower than market price to avoid unreasonable margin calling. I believe this remove the impacts that you dislike.

however this is still a temporary solution, later some new solution will be discussed sufficiently to replace this one, it should include:

1. dynamic MCR
2. new measure to handle black swan that do not stop borrowing.
3. MSSR change

I understand that we cannot make bitCNY a stable coin that always own sufficient collateral, good pegging and sufficient supply, but we have chance to reach a point that is close to that point, and that really need careful design.

hope you can understand and help in the process.

[alt]

I support reduce MSSR to 2% instead of any complex feed price adjustment(manipulation)

I think the BSIP42 this time is just an emergency plan, and there will be a better solution later.

I don't understand why we need this temporary complex way when we just need to simple reduce the MSSR.
As my observation, it's already a very difficult task for those witness to give a reasonable real market price.
You should never  expect more from them.
We must limited the power from them or they will screw up again.

[liondani]

What is important and which clockwork also mentioned on another thread is the quick update of the margin call price in a quick downfall so the open margin calls will eat the open buy orders instead of traders taking them away

If that can happen then bitcrabs proposal makes much more sense.

[bitcrab]

Even i'm an enemy of BSIP42 at current situation I temporarly support bitcrabs proposal for the good of the community till the bug is fixed to implement the other solution proposed by Stefan or till the MCR recovers.

That is just speculation... Nobody can guarantee they will not eat current margin.

It depends who is buying the margin.People buying margin to increase their stacke will definetly not decrease the price of BTS however giving the opportunity on such a big sell wall for arbitrage it would at current situation automaticly mean that people would buy cheap BTS at DEX to dump it on CEX with a profit which would lead to a price fall and creating bitcny with a 10% (MSSR)premium.
 
Making sure what bitcrab proposed to always have margin call price under real price feed (hopefully 1,5-2%) is a fair solution.It won't get the margin so quickly eaten but it will also not have a big negativ effect on BTS price on CEX.

What is important and which clockwork also mentioned on another thread is the quick update of the margin call price in a quick downfall so the open margin calls will eat the open buy orders instead of traders taking them away

thanks for understanding

[finn-bts]

Even i'm an enemy of BSIP42 at current situation I temporarly support bitcrabs proposal for the good of the community till the bug is fixed to implement the other solution proposed by Stefan or till the MCR recovers.

That is just speculation... Nobody can guarantee they will not eat current margin.

It depends who is buying the margin.People buying margin to increase their stacke will definetly not decrease the price of BTS however giving the opportunity on such a big sell wall for arbitrage it would at current situation automaticly mean that people would buy cheap BTS at DEX to dump it on CEX with a profit which would lead to a price fall and creating bitcny with a 10% (MSSR)premium.
 
Making sure what bitcrab proposed to always have margin call price under real price feed (hopefully 1,5-2%) is a fair solution.It won't get the margin so quickly eaten but it will also not have a big negativ effect on BTS price on CEX.

What is important and which clockwork also mentioned on another thread is the quick update of the margin call price in a quick downfall so the open margin calls will eat the open buy orders instead of traders taking them away

Your decision is wise, thank you.

[finn-bts]

I support reduce MSSR to 2% instead of any complex feed price adjustment(manipulation)

I think the BSIP42 this time is just an emergency plan, and there will be a better solution later.