make sure margin call price lower than market price at least 2%

[binggo]

那就提提案呗，干看着失血也不是什么好办法。
这个提案里包含两部分内容: 喂合理的市场价格与降低MSSR。

一个提案办两件事，谁也不耽误。

问题的关键在于，如何界定合理的市场价格作为喂价，并防止之前喂价被外盘刷价格所操控。

对于国外社区提出的更改bitcny区的强清补偿，个人感觉国外社区依然单纯，低强清补偿也救不了bitusd, 更对bitcny区是个威胁，没有承兑的bitusd本身就是半残疾，很多问题国外社区根本体会不到，。

难道强清就没有缺陷，原始的低喂价依然可以利用低强清补偿血洗内盘。
强清补偿与抵押率与目标抵押挂钩依然有实现的必要。

4%的通胀依然是一个合理的通胀系数。

通缩有什么好处，大明都亡了……

[alt]

我说的很清楚是爆仓价，在MSSR 10个点的时候，喂价最高不能高于市场价8个点

虽然目前见证人的喂价呈现出两极分化，但喂价中间值基本上与CEX市场价持平，内外盘差价依然9%左右，要消除这个溢价，还是得试验 MSSR 调整为1.05观察溢价变化，如果溢价减小到5%左右，可以尝试MSSR调整为 1.03、1.02

现在 crazybit 喂价超过市场价30%，仍然有很多人投票给他，
在这种垃圾喂价都能被大多数 proxy 支持，没有取得放弃喂价操纵共识的情况下，我肯定不会支持调低MSSR

[zhouxiaobao]

至少保持10个点左右的负反馈是十分必要的。明知不行，非要走回老路嘛？黑天鹅保护的时候，喂价高了十个点都不止，不也很好么？都自宫五年了，还自宫不止？

[Yao]

我说的很清楚是爆仓价，在MSSR 10个点的时候，喂价最高不能高于市场价8个点

虽然目前见证人的喂价呈现出两极分化，但喂价中间值基本上与CEX市场价持平，内外盘差价依然9%左右，要消除这个溢价，还是得试验 MSSR 调整为1.05观察溢价变化，如果溢价减小到5%左右，可以尝试MSSR调整为 1.03、1.02

[Yao]

反弹期就是消化爆仓单的最好时机，而按照本帖帖主alt的建议，见证人应该让喂价比市场价低2%，这样才能让爆仓单尽可能处于“卖一”的位置，买盘可以直接吃爆仓单而不是吃其他正常的卖单。对于已经爆仓的人来说是很痛苦，但是在反弹的时候在相对高的价格被吃掉然后平仓要比创新低之后在更低的价格被吃掉要损失小吧？！除非，你们真的以为牛市来了。

如果你们认为负反馈喂价是价格操纵，那有为何不认为喂比市场价低2%的价格是价格操纵。

确实也是价格操纵，达成共识（所有见证人都不再喂负反馈，同时MSSR减少至5%或者3%、2%）之前我也不会喂比市场价低2%，没有意义。

市场没有反转之前，bitCNY的黑天鹅风险一直存在。如果把目前大量的爆仓单比作银行坏账的话，喂价比市场价低2%可以算是一种“处理坏账”的方式，但也需要社区达成共识（当然，让处于爆仓状态的抵押者接受这种处理坏账的方式，心理上有些不可接受，仓位决定想法）。达成共识之前，witness.yao 会一直喂市场真实价格。

不知道我哪句话让你们认为我要求喂价低于市场价2%的，
我说的很清楚是爆仓价，在MSSR 10个点的时候，喂价最高不能高于市场价8个点

sorry，我理解错误。

[alt]

反弹期就是消化爆仓单的最好时机，而按照本帖帖主alt的建议，见证人应该让喂价比市场价低2%，这样才能让爆仓单尽可能处于“卖一”的位置，买盘可以直接吃爆仓单而不是吃其他正常的卖单。对于已经爆仓的人来说是很痛苦，但是在反弹的时候在相对高的价格被吃掉然后平仓要比创新低之后在更低的价格被吃掉要损失小吧？！除非，你们真的以为牛市来了。

如果你们认为负反馈喂价是价格操纵，那有为何不认为喂比市场价低2%的价格是价格操纵。

所以就该喂市场价，太高的太低的都撤票

[alt]

反弹期就是消化爆仓单的最好时机，而按照本帖帖主alt的建议，见证人应该让喂价比市场价低2%，这样才能让爆仓单尽可能处于“卖一”的位置，买盘可以直接吃爆仓单而不是吃其他正常的卖单。对于已经爆仓的人来说是很痛苦，但是在反弹的时候在相对高的价格被吃掉然后平仓要比创新低之后在更低的价格被吃掉要损失小吧？！除非，你们真的以为牛市来了。

如果你们认为负反馈喂价是价格操纵，那有为何不认为喂比市场价低2%的价格是价格操纵。

确实也是价格操纵，达成共识（所有见证人都不再喂负反馈，同时MSSR减少至5%或者3%、2%）之前我也不会喂比市场价低2%，没有意义。

市场没有反转之前，bitCNY的黑天鹅风险一直存在。如果把目前大量的爆仓单比作银行坏账的话，喂价比市场价低2%可以算是一种“处理坏账”的方式，但也需要社区达成共识（当然，让处于爆仓状态的抵押者接受这种处理坏账的方式，心理上有些不可接受，仓位决定想法）。达成共识之前，witness.yao 会一直喂市场真实价格。

不知道我哪句话让你们认为我要求喂价低于市场价2%的，
我说的很清楚是爆仓价，在MSSR 10个点的时候，喂价最高不能高于市场价8个点

[Yao]

反弹期就是消化爆仓单的最好时机，而按照本帖帖主alt的建议，见证人应该让喂价比市场价低2%，这样才能让爆仓单尽可能处于“卖一”的位置，买盘可以直接吃爆仓单而不是吃其他正常的卖单。对于已经爆仓的人来说是很痛苦，但是在反弹的时候在相对高的价格被吃掉然后平仓要比创新低之后在更低的价格被吃掉要损失小吧？！除非，你们真的以为牛市来了。

如果你们认为负反馈喂价是价格操纵，那有为何不认为喂比市场价低2%的价格是价格操纵。

确实也是价格操纵，达成共识（所有见证人都不再喂负反馈，同时MSSR减少至5%或者3%、2%）之前我也不会喂比市场价低2%，没有意义。

市场没有反转之前，bitCNY的黑天鹅风险一直存在。如果把目前大量的爆仓单比作银行坏账的话，喂价比市场价低2%可以算是一种“处理坏账”的方式，但也需要社区达成共识（当然，让处于爆仓状态的抵押者接受这种处理坏账的方式，心理上有些不可接受，仓位决定想法）。达成共识之前，witness.yao 会一直喂市场真实价格。

[bitcrab]

反弹期就是消化爆仓单的最好时机，而按照本帖帖主alt的建议，见证人应该让喂价比市场价低2%，这样才能让爆仓单尽可能处于“卖一”的位置，买盘可以直接吃爆仓单而不是吃其他正常的卖单。对于已经爆仓的人来说是很痛苦，但是在反弹的时候在相对高的价格被吃掉然后平仓要比创新低之后在更低的价格被吃掉要损失小吧？！除非，你们真的以为牛市来了。

如果你们认为负反馈喂价是价格操纵，那有为何不认为喂比市场价低2%的价格是价格操纵。

[Yao]

I think everybody have learned from the mistake that margin call price shouldn't higer than market price.
please vote out those witness still manipulate the feed price.
@xeroc @openledger @michaelx

Agreed.
My motivation to not act is purely based on the desire to not cause a global settlement on bitCNY.
I do intend to act once the dust of latest market moves has settled a bit

Now is the market rebound period, it time to cancel the witness vote of manipulating the price as soon as possible. This will help to digest the forced closing order as soon as possible.

By the way, yesterday at around 17:45 (UTC+8), multiple witness nodes went offline (including: rnglab, blckchnd, abc123, delegate-1.lafona, fox, witness.yao, xeldal, delegate-zhaomu, Sahkan-bitshares), then in order to avoid network embarrassment, you promptly revoked the voting of the offline witnesses. witness.yao is first one to brought back online at around 18:12 (UTC+8). So far, witness.yao is still being withdrawn by you.

so, what's is the real market feed price? and when change the MSSR to 102% or 103% or 105%? !

if not change the MSSR, I think BSIP 42 still necessary.

how do you think the wittness who give the lower feed price than the market price?

who is the good guy, who is the bad guy?

你认为现在市场真的到底部了么？如果市场在反弹后继续创新低，仍然执行负反馈喂价的结果就是：
1、对于爆仓单（抵押者）而言，继续随着市场价格温水煮青蛙式的在更低的价格爆仓出局。在市场整体趋势处于熊市的情况下，越早（价格相对高的时候）爆仓，损失越小。在BSIP42实施后，很多爆仓单本来可以在相对高的价格爆仓，但喂价比市场价高，让爆仓延迟了，而市场一直是向下的，所以爆仓价格越来越低。同时喂价与市场价偏离过大使得爆仓单无法被市场力量消化掉。BSIP42精准锚定的另一个代价是让市场失去了活力，锚定共识不再依赖市场（bitCNY高于或低于1元的时候市场就有利可图）而是完全依赖人为的负反馈喂价。
2、对于系统而言，更多的抵押仓被延迟到更低的价格时才爆仓，使得本就处于低位的BTS价格被庞大的爆仓单压盘，进一步增加黑天鹅风险。

反弹期就是消化爆仓单的最好时机，而按照本帖帖主alt的建议，见证人应该让喂价比市场价低2% 系统喂价应该确保爆仓单挂出的卖价比市场卖价低2%，这样才能让爆仓单尽可能处于“卖一”的位置，买盘可以直接吃爆仓单而不是吃其他正常的卖单，对于已经爆仓的人来说是很痛苦，但是在反弹的时候在相对高的价格被吃掉然后平仓要比创新低之后在更低的价格被吃掉要损失小吧？！除非，你们真的以为牛市来了。

[binggo]

I think everybody have learned from the mistake that margin call price shouldn't higer than market price.
please vote out those witness still manipulate the feed price.
@xeroc @openledger @michaelx

Agreed.
My motivation to not act is purely based on the desire to not cause a global settlement on bitCNY.
I do intend to act once the dust of latest market moves has settled a bit

Now is the market rebound period, it time to cancel the witness vote of manipulating the price as soon as possible. This will help to digest the forced closing order as soon as possible.

By the way, yesterday at around 17:45 (UTC+8), multiple witness nodes went offline (including: rnglab, blckchnd, abc123, delegate-1.lafona, fox, witness.yao, xeldal, delegate-zhaomu, Sahkan-bitshares), then in order to avoid network embarrassment, you promptly revoked the voting of the offline witnesses. witness.yao is first one to brought back online at around 18:12 (UTC+8). So far, witness.yao is still being withdrawn by you.

so, what's is the real market feed price? and when change the MSSR to 102% or 103% or 105%? !

if not change the MSSR, I think BSIP 42 still necessary.

how do you think the wittness who give the lower feed price than the market price?

who is the good guy, who is the bad guy?

[Yao]

I think everybody have learned from the mistake that margin call price shouldn't higer than market price.
please vote out those witness still manipulate the feed price.
@xeroc @openledger @michaelx

Agreed.
My motivation to not act is purely based on the desire to not cause a global settlement on bitCNY.
I do intend to act once the dust of latest market moves has settled a bit

Now is the market rebound period, it time to cancel the witness vote of manipulating the price as soon as possible. This will help to digest the forced closing order as soon as possible.

By the way, yesterday at around 17:45 (UTC+8), multiple witness nodes went offline (including: rnglab, blckchnd, abc123, delegate-1.lafona, fox, witness.yao, xeldal, delegate-zhaomu, Sahkan-bitshares), then in order to avoid network embarrassment, you promptly revoked the voting of the offline witnesses. witness.yao is first one to brought back online at around 18:12 (UTC+8). So far, witness.yao is still being withdrawn by you.

[sschiessl]

Latest UI release candidate shows the bids as well, and allows the bidding
https://staging.bitshares.org/#/asset/USD

[finn-bts]

Agree to execute MSSR at 105% or 102%. It has been proved that MSSR at 110% does not well digest and burst positions, but brings instability to the market, while MSSR at 105% or 102% will minimize these adverse effects.

[xeroc]

I think everybody have learned from the mistake that margin call price shouldn't higer than market price.
please vote out those witness still manipulate the feed price.
@xeroc @openledger @michaelx

Agreed.
My motivation to not act is purely based on the desire to not cause a global settlement on bitCNY.
I do intend to act once the dust of latest market moves has settled a bit

[clockwork]

I think everybody have learned from the mistake that margin call price shouldn't higer than market price.
please vote out those witness still manipulate the feed price.
@xeroc @openledger @michaelx

I really don't understand why do you still vote for those witness give wrong feed price after bsip42 have quick for so many days.
you are really act quickly last time when several witness try to change MSSR to 5%, while that is a very good direction.

when BTS's price for CNY is 0.28, the witness's feed price is 0.32, so margin call order can be selled at 0.29, 3% higher than normal,
this will push bitCNY to blackswan again,
please unvote these witness who give the unreasonable feed price:

winess.hiblockchain
delegate.freedom
elmato
xeldal
roelandp
fox
witness.yao
witness.still
gdex-witness
crazybit
xn-delegate
abc123
xman

when is that screenshot from? some of these witnesses are no longer actvie and the prices are not what I currently see...maybe they have adjusted?

(I resumed CNY feeding as well btw)

[alt]

I think everybody have learned from the mistake that margin call price shouldn't higer than market price.
please vote out those witness still manipulate the feed price.
@xeroc @openledger @michaelx

I really don't understand why do you still vote for those witness give wrong feed price after bsip42 have quick for so many days.
you are really act quickly last time when several witness try to change MSSR to 5%, while that is a very good direction.

when BTS's price for CNY is 0.28, the witness's feed price is 0.32, so margin call order can be selled at 0.29, 3% higher than normal,
this will push bitCNY to blackswan again,
please unvote these witness who give the unreasonable feed price:

winess.hiblockchain
delegate.freedom
elmato
xeldal
roelandp
fox
witness.yao
witness.still
gdex-witness
crazybit
xn-delegate
abc123
xman

[xeroc]

All bids are listed here as well:
http://bitassets.bitshares.eu/#/USD
I'll try to find some time to add a "progress bar"-kind of visualization to it

[WDCBTS]

it's has been many days since BSIP42 be voted out,
you witness please stop manipulation the price, at least you need to make sure margin call sell price must lower than real market price at least 2%,
then the margin call order can be eatern, or maybe another black swan from BITCNY will comming soon.

The truth  is very simple, no one wants to admit that they have failed to borrow money from the system to gamble. The current rules allow them, but they do not want to be responsible for their actions.

[Yao]

witness.yao now switch to feed the real price and set the feed price floor limit:

min_safe_price = global_settlement_price * ((mssr + global_settlement_protection) / 100.0)
global_settlement_protection=2.5

For bitCNY, my position has been to try to adjust the MSSR to 105%. Such as the views discussed earlier:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26928.msg321049#msg321049
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26315.msg321184#msg321184

My position now is:

1. For bitCNY, only adjust the MSSR to 105%, and the other to the market. By adjusting the MSSR from 1.10 to 1.05, the number of BTS sold by Margin Call will be reduced by 5%, and the selling price will increase by 5%, and the arbitrageur will still have a 5% profit. I think that the ±5% premium discount is not a big problem for the current stable currency application scenario: the current stable currency is mainly used as a hedging tool for digital currency investors to avoid falling risks, even as a deposit and Withdrawal channel, premium discount bitCNY still has the same purchasing power. Only when applied to the merchant accepting the payment scenario of bitCNY, it is necessary to accurately anchor the RMB value.

2. In the past five years, the community has placed its focus on SmartCoins, and hopes that bitCNY will achieve a breakthrough, and other ecological developments will be almost zero, making the price of BTS deeply bound to the fate of bitCNY. At the same time, most of the bitCNY mortgaged directly bought the BTS, pushing up the overall leverage of the BTS: bitCNY market, helping to boost the BTS price, the bull market is like a rocket booster, and the bear market is like a meat grinder.

In contrast, the stable currency DAI built on Ethereum, because the price of ETH is determined by the ecology of Ethereum, the development of DAI has almost no effect on the price of ETH, so it is more smooth than the development of bitCNY.

The BitShares community needs to re-examine the development strategy. We should pay attention to the development of other application scenarios, let the ecology bloom, and let more products and application scenarios support the price of BTS. At that time, the development of SmartCoins could be achieved. In addition to current features (such as account system, account permissions hierarchical control, Multi-Hierarchical Flexible Multi-Signature, Memo, whitelist and blacklist, User Issued Assets, Decentralized Exchange, Proposed Transactions, 3 seconds to pack a block, 1.5s average transaction confirmation time, etc., there can be many applications in any combination. The scene can be developed), bsip43, bsip44 are all worth promoting.


1、对于bitCNY，仅调整MSSR为105%，其它的交给市场。MSSR从1.10调整到1.05，Margin call 卖出的BTS数量会减少5%，而且卖价也会上升5%，套利者依然有5%的利润。我认为±5%的溢价折价对于目前稳定币的应用场景来讲没什么大问题：目前稳定币主要是作为数字货币投资者规避下跌风险的避险工具，即使是作为Deposit和Withdrawal通道，溢价折价的bitCNY依旧有同样的购买力。只有应用于商家接受bitCNY的支付场景的时候需要精准锚定人民币价值。

2、过去5年，社区把重心完全放在了SmartCoins上，寄希望于bitCNY实现异军突围，其它生态发展几乎为零，使得BTS的价格与bitCNY的命运深度绑定。同时抵押借出的bitCNY绝大大部分直接买入了BTS，推高了BTS：bitCNY市场的整体杠杆，助涨助跌BTS价格，牛市犹如火箭助推器，熊市犹如绞肉机。

反观构建于Ethereum的稳定币DAI，因为ETH价格是由Ethereum的生态决定的，DAI的发展对ETH价格几乎没有影响，所以相比bitCNY的发展更顺风顺水。比特股社区需要重新审视发展战略，我们应该重视其它应用场景的开发，让生态全面开花，让更多的产品和应用场景支撑BTS的价格。那时，SmartCoins的发展才能水到渠成。

除了目前的功能（比如账户体系、账户permissions分级控制、Multi-Hierarchical Flexible Multi-Signature、Memo、白名单和黑名单、User Issued Assets、Decentralized Exchange、Proposed Transactions、3秒打包一个块、1.5s平均交易确认时间、……等等，任意组合就可以有很多种应用场景可以开发），bsip43、bsip44都是值得推进的提案。

[clockwork]

and these witness still didn't provide feed price:
verbaltech2
rnglab
delegate-1.lafona
clockwork
openledger-dc

I have resumed USD feeding and will be resuming CNY feedign soon once I get gs protection sorted out

[alt]

Interesting situtation here.

One party is short and tries its best to ensure bitCNY maintains value to grow BitShares as business
The other party is long and tries to profit from margins being called to make a profit.

Fortunately, those with voting power see that as well and pick the way that keeps value for BitShares as a network.

You are really ignorant, free market need no good or bad except fair rule.
your ignorant already make bitUSD black swan.
you need to know debt have to be margin call when price drop, whatever you are a good person or a bad person.
so what's your plan? watch the price drop but still refuse to pay the debt? you are such a good person?

[xeroc]

Interesting situtation here.

One party is short and tries its best to ensure bitCNY maintains value to grow BitShares as business
The other party is long and tries to profit from margins being called to make a profit.

Fortunately, those with voting power see that as well and pick the way that keeps value for BitShares as a network.

[ljk424]

i don't think it's a good time to low the price than the market price,  the time it is not right.

what's the right time?
what if the price continue decrease?

用杀人的方法治病，你很优秀。只管把病消除，不管病人死活。表面上看着像个医生，其实就是个一心想吃尸体的饿鬼

[alt]

i don't think it's a good time to low the price than the market price,  the time it is not right.

what's the right time?
what if the price continue decrease?

[binggo]

i don't think it's a good time to low the price than the market price,  the time it is not right.

[alt]

and these witness still didn't provide feed price:
verbaltech2
rnglab
delegate-1.lafona
clockwork
openledger-dc

[alt]

when BTS's price for CNY is 0.28, the witness's feed price is 0.32, so margin call order can be selled at 0.29, 3% higher than normal,
this will push bitCNY to blackswan again,
please unvote these witness who give the unreasonable feed price:

winess.hiblockchain
delegate.freedom
elmato
xeldal
roelandp
fox
witness.yao
witness.still
gdex-witness
crazybit
xn-delegate
abc123
xman

[gghi]

Look back at this discussion. Many people rejected BSIP42 altogether. Feeding reform did not achieve the desired goal, or perhaps accelerated the market contraction. This is not the inevitable result of the feed reform. The biggest problem is that CNY cannot be allowed to depreciate during the downturn of the market. In fact, if CNY is allowed to depreciate by 10%, there will be no such bad consequences. In other words, if CNY is allowed to keep its feed price unchanged at less than 10% depreciation, it may succeed.
An increase in feeding prices is equivalent to a simultaneous reduction in MSSR and MCR, which can significantly reduce market burst orders during market declines. As for risk release, releasing risk is actually putting more pressure on the already weak downstream market, which makes it worse.  The degree of risk release should be without the occurrence of burst warehouse receipt pressure plate.
Risk accumulation should be prevented during peacetime and market rise, so players'leverage should be reduced, because high leverage will undoubtedly accumulate more risks. This fundamental precaution must gradually improve MCR, as long as the market does not accumulate a large amount of risk during the period of market rise, there is no need to digest burst warehouse receipts during the period of market downturn.
MCR must be reformed, but the direction of reform is to continuously improve MCR, not to adjust between 1.25 and 2. It is suggested that a long-term mechanism should be established to gradually increase MCR, at least in the range of 3-5 or more. At the same time, we must keep the feeding price rising.

[gghi]

Lower feeding prices, so-called digestion of explosive warehouse receipts, release of risk is the wrong guiding ideology. The consequence is that all the mortgagees are injured or even destroyed, and CNY flows are exhausted! uuuuuuuuuu Don't be afraid of CNY devaluation, don't worry about CNY devaluation, any currency has devaluation, especially in the economic contraction, currency devaluation is wise.
The accumulation of BTS risk is due to the low MCR and the high leverage of players, resulting in the accumulation of a large number of risks during the upstream period of the market. Only by tackling the problem of risk accumulation at the root can we gradually improve MCR and reduce players'leverage.

[zhouxiaobao]

Please don't do that,it  well make BTS die.

[alt]

it's has been many days since BSIP42 be voted out,
you witness please stop manipulation the price, at least you need to make sure margin call sell price must lower than real market price at least 2%,
then the margin call order can be eatern, or maybe another black swan from BITCNY will comming soon.