Author Topic: another way to development the economic  (Read 820 times)

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Offline alt

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another way to development the economic
« on: December 12, 2018, 01:37:43 am »
in fact we have a significant treasure, the fees as income now and the future income.

for now, people reagard 1 bitUSD as a real USD only when there are enough collateral support the debt.
1 bitUSD can't worth 1 real USD after the blackswan. but what if we accept 1 bitUSD as a real USD for all the fees?

evntually the committee can issue an asset called DEBTUSD, and promise to pay interest or buy back with future income.
then we can pay the workers with DEBTUSD, we can even get fund from DEBTUSD to help rescue blackswan.

Offline WDCBTS

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2018, 05:15:22 am »
in fact we have a significant treasure, the fees as income now and the future income.

for now, people reagard 1 bitUSD as a real USD only when there are enough collateral support the debt.
1 bitUSD can't worth 1 real USD after the blackswan. but what if we accept 1 bitUSD as a real USD for all the fees?

evntually the committee can issue an asset called DEBTUSD, and promise to pay interest or buy back with future income.
then we can pay the workers with DEBTUSD, we can even get fund from DEBTUSD to help rescue blackswan.

Its a good idea.

Offline xeroc

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2018, 03:08:16 pm »
Interesting idea. Technically possible. The biggest concern I have is by using "USD" and thus potentially making it appear as if it was U.S. juristiction.
In the case the U.S. feels responsible to do something about it, promising a reward for DEBTUSD makes the token a security, and no one wants to be responsible for that - not even the committee members.
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Offline alt

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2018, 03:35:58 am »
let's just do it step by step
first we should ask the witness to give a correct rate from the feed price.
If I am not wrong, the rate had been set much higher to avoid a flaw about buy cheap BTS from system which had been fixed.
now we need to reduce it to correct value, so our ursers can spent 1 USD or CNY just like the  real fiat currency.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 04:01:32 am by alt »

Offline clockwork

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2018, 01:39:32 pm »
I hadn't commented on this so far because I wasn't entirely sure what the proposed mechanism is but I was thinking of something that could be related (or even the same and I've just misunderstood) so here it goes. Let me know if I got this right.

Essentially create a USD pegged asset that is ONLY issued as worker or witness pay and is instantly settleable against the reserve pool.

So the chain no longer pays BTS to workers and witnesses but workerUSD (or even workerEUR and workerCNY) which are not smartcoins (i.e. they can't be borrowed or shorted) but are ONLY issued by the chain as payment. These assets can be settled for BTS from the reserve pool at any time at the current feed price.

Offline Thom

Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2018, 03:46:12 pm »
Your idea makes perfect sense Alex, but need to get an attorney to weigh in if it is likely to be considered a security to USA jurisdiction. If so, perhaps maintain option of payment in BTS.

Ofc there is the issue of the changes required to witness payment / vesting code, severing it from a fixed amount of BTS per block. Not sure if that will be a major issue to deal with. Not even sure why vesting for witness pay was ever involved tho, seems that could be eliminated IMO.

If there were an option to set a "multiplication FACTOR", whereby the BTS paid per block were calculated by a formula like:

committee witness rate setting (currently 1 BTS / block) * FACTOR == BTS paid per block, then if USA witnesses want to retain current pay method their FACTOR = 1, otherwise FACTOR is set to value that takes feed price into account to achieve a USD / CNY / EUR pay rate.

That would also require additional committee parameters to set USD / CNY / EUR pay rate values.

Haven't thought this thru in detail through, so may have some issues that haven't occurred to me.
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Offline Customminer

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2018, 10:44:04 am »
Replace BTS with another asset for fees? No thank you, i'd far prefer for the reserve pool to fill up with collected fees during downtrends like these.

If you're mourning bitUSD's GS state, use an alternative bitasset like CNY or Hertz instead of proposing changing how Bitshares core funding mechanism works.

The fastest way for bitUSD to recover is for BTS price to increase, I seriously cannot see how reducing reasons to buy BTS can be beneficial towards this goal.

Also please stop using the FUD term 'black swan', it was relevant when Dan created the blog post about how there wasn't recovery mechanisms for bitassets in global settlement states, but now we've got BSIP 18 so there are now multiple recovery routes - no longer definable as a black swan.

How about we start punishing bad debt holders? Stripping them of their LTM would be the simplest option.

Offline abit

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2018, 06:30:08 pm »
These assets can be settled for BTS from the reserve pool at any time at the current feed price.
No.
Please check where Steem Dollars is now.
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Offline clockwork

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2018, 08:10:19 pm »
These assets can be settled for BTS from the reserve pool at any time at the current feed price.
No.
Please check where Steem Dollars is now.

Is the steem dollar working in a similar way?

Offline Thom

Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2018, 10:28:50 pm »
How about we start punishing bad debt holders? Stripping them of their LTM would be the simplest option.

I'm all for that, a penalty for those that push for unsafe debt. Let's disincentivize those who abuse the collateral requirements. Otherwise they'll continue to do it as long as they can.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline armin

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2018, 01:05:30 am »
wow, do you guys know why steem dollar is like that now? I thought its always backed by steem inflation?

Offline abit

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2018, 09:09:10 pm »
wow, do you guys know why steem dollar is like that now? I thought its always backed by steem inflation?
Not always. Total value of steem dollars is capped at 10% of total STEEM market value, to prevent the system from being overtaken by steem dollar holders. That said, peg is less important in this case. Politics.
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Offline Digital Lucifer

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2018, 03:19:58 am »
wow, do you guys know why steem dollar is like that now? I thought its always backed by steem inflation?
Not always. Total value of steem dollars is capped at 10% of total STEEM market value, to prevent the system from being overtaken by steem dollar holders. That said, peg is less important in this case. Politics.

I'll agree with Abit and Thom here and add following:

- Supporting payments/fees in BTS is actually one and unique thing about this ecosystem. Changing it just brings us closer to EOS and Steem isues with SBD, RAM and CPU and other dodgy algorythms. Currently it shows how Consensus workers/witnesses are greatest supporters of the Blockchain, regardless of its price and conditions.
- BitUSD is in Global Settlement and it has to be revived. Instead of looking for quick alternatives just to get back on real price of income/fees is changing entire concept of how blockchain works and demanding more development before it happens - sounds really like just another Steem Dollar variant.
- BitUSD has to be introduced to the world, legalized and Witnesses needs to do better and more aligned job about pricefeeds in the future. (it lacks on listings for long time, presentation and proper introduction - we dont need a new one)
- Stake-holders and debt owners needs to learn to keep 30% 30% 30% in debt/trading/back, not just throwing all-in like this is a poker game.

Hope my reply was reasonable enough and hopefully you will put your minds more in current situations that needs to SOLVED and not REPLACED with another potential problem.

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Offline armin

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Re: another way to development the economic
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2018, 05:58:04 pm »
wow, do you guys know why steem dollar is like that now? I thought its always backed by steem inflation?
Not always. Total value of steem dollars is capped at 10% of total STEEM market value, to prevent the system from being overtaken by steem dollar holders. That said, peg is less important in this case. Politics.

interesting, amazing