Author Topic: bitusd peg  (Read 90961 times)

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Offline pc

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The intent of BSIP-18 is not to allow people to do something good for the community. Its intent is to provide a mechanism for revival, and incentives to use it. This has worked out nicely.

Bidding "at the last minute" makes sense, economically, if you want to acquire as much from the pool as possible. Just like on ebay, bidding early only drives the price up. IMO this behaviour is neither benevolent nor malevolent. It can be called selfish, but that's OK - we're acting in a market here, and participants are expected to act selfish. That's just how things work.

Note that the bidders has also accepted a significant risk with this investment. If the BTS price drops again, he might lose all of it.
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Offline bitstopia2049

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I guess it's hard to make you happy.

How could a benevolent whale participate (if such a person exists!) even if he or she wanted to?


Let the whales work...they could have easily remained on the sidelines during the bitUSD revival auction and let minnows and others participate...but they could not resist flexing their muscles

Thanks for your reply...It is not really about my happiness...I want the idea of DECENTRALIZATION to succeed...I want BTS to succeed..If I was selfish or mercenary in my disposition I would have lost interest in BTS a long time ago..

Benevolence:  the quality of being well meaning; kindness;

I find it hard to believe that submitting a bid on $3.8m of debt at the last minute (figuratively speaking) and blowing everyone else out of the water would be associated with "benevolence"…If there was some kind of "Robin Hood" intent underlying the action ..Well...I don't see it.... this just comes off as a plunderous stunt.

Action taken earlier might have been perceived differently given that bitUSD was in GS status for months..  My rough estimation -  ONE account acquired ~92% and another dozen accounts ~7%...So roughly 10 people (or groups) acquired 99% of the debt.   Is that really the size of the Bitshares universe?

I am not implying ALL whales have piratic intentions…but clearly if the idea is to entice users to expand the realm of BTS and acquire advocates across the globe, this was a chance to do that organically and at the same time show the resiliency of BTS and the extent of community support....   Some opportunities only come along once..

Offline pc

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I guess it's hard to make you happy.

How could a benevolent whale participate (if such a person exists!) even if he or she wanted to?


Let the whales work...they could have easily remained on the sidelines during the bitUSD revival auction and let minnows and others participate...but they could not resist flexing their muscles
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline bitstopia2049

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FTR - BitUSD has been revived a couple of hours ago.

Thanks, I noticed...

Whales are short sighted in their avarice...why?   They did not allow the bitusd revival to incent more people to participate in bts development/improvement

They gained more..but at what cost?      Why should I or others contnue to volunteer ideas, suggestions, etc.. when it seems like a small group of people are only interested in becoming obscenely wealthy and care for nothing else...

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the Yang campaign and my prediction ...He is picking up momentum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZJiZC89HBc

Central Banks Are Failing, Will UBI Work?


Yet I received no reply, action, suggestions for follow ups....certainly not from the WHALES (or their reps) who found the time to vacuum up most of the bitUSD debt..

They have the most to gain with BTS improvement..so why not set up a multi-sig wallet and contribute a tiny fraction of their wealth to pay for a DeCEO?   

Schieesel posted the graphic I drafted to start a discussion...

Let the whales work...they could have easily remained on the sidelines during the bitUSD revival auction and let minnows and others participate...but they could not resist flexing their muscles at a time when BTS needs more and more people contributing ideas, energy, curating and distributing information and having a stake in BTS ascension...

That's what marketing is...bringing more people into the BTS universe and showing them its capabilities and brilliance..  It is supposed to be perceived as a leader in decentralized exchanges and DAC's..not the just simply another manipulated playground. So at the moment my feeling is, given their recent actions, let the whales work...they own the most, so they should work the hardest (or hire someone to do so)...

Offline pc

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FTR - BitUSD has been revived a couple of hours ago.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline sschiessl

Requested to link this from bitstopia

https://imgur.com/a/PVGXxYm

Offline abit

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Please voice your wishes, suggestions or ideas for the marketing worker in a constructive way, I will happily listen.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/united-states-crypto-platform-huobicom-launches-fiat-crypto-trading

Does anyone have any experience with this exchange?   Can the foundation make a proposal to them to add BTS-USD pair..?

A direct fiat USD/BTS on ramp would be a major boon to a revamped Bitshares marketing campaign...

Obviously the sooner bitUSD is revived the stronger case the foundation can make...

Also..


https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/02/21/underestimate-samsung-galaxy-s10-crypto-millions-exposed-bitcoin/

I wonder if this announcement by Samsung had any influence on the BTS price spike on Upbit Exchange...Is Samsung aware of BTS' superior capabilities. ?

Is there a bitKRW asset? 

US$ =  1138 KRW   CNY = 169 KRW




@bitstopia2049 & clockwork, thank you for the replies.

Please confirm the following hypothetical bid for BitUSD

mcr 1.75
GS 0.051
Debt I will take 10,000 bitUSD
Additional Collateral I provide 400,000 bts
CR 59.608
call price would be 0.029

Based on the formulas and bitUSD revives with my bid being inclusive, I am essentially "rewarded" an additional 200,000 bts as collateral in the long position?
Essentially, yes, if your bid is included, you get a debt position whose debt is 10,000 bitUSD and collateral is your additional BTS plus that 200,000 BTS. The higher "additional_collateral / debt" ratio, the higher possibility that your bid will be included.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 11:01:25 pm by abit »
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Offline pc

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So the only real incentive to bid is for quicker revival of bitUSD?

While under GS, bitUSD is backed by (pegged to) a fixed amount of BTS. After revival, it will be pegged to USD again, and it will be backed by a variable amount of BTS. You can expect the bitUSD internal market price to drop sharply from slightly below MCR to around 1 USD.

This is also the point where the bidder is rewarded. By bidding successfully, you "buy" a position consisting of debt and equally valued collateral. Immediately after revival, the debt is worth much less, which means your position gains value. The price you pay for this is that both your bid and the bought collateral are locked up, until you pay back the debt.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline Brekyrself

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Thanks again.

I misunderstood the steemit article thinking by bidding the system was providing additional collateral as incentive to bid however the bts received at the end of the day is just what you would get by selling bitusd at a certain price?

Using the system before GS was simple, borrow bitusd with safe CR, sell bitusd at market price for bts.  If bts went up in price, your in the green, if it went down, your in the red.

That brings up the question with bidding. in the UI there is the label of "bid price."  Does this mean that if the system revives and our bid is included that is the price we borrow and sell bitusd for bts at?  Or is the price the system revives at where bitusd is sold for bts?

Yes....the Settlement Price

NO the bid price is just for ranking purposes and to determine if your bid will be included when the revival happens, several bidders could outbid you for example and push your ranking down..After the revival it is up to you when, how  or if, you want sell the bitUSD...The BTS price will be going up and down per usual trading activity...
[/quote]

So the only real incentive to bid is for quicker revival of bitUSD?

Offline bitstopia2049

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Thanks again.

I misunderstood the steemit article thinking by bidding the system was providing additional collateral as incentive to bid however the bts received at the end of the day is just what you would get by selling bitusd at a certain price?

Using the system before GS was simple, borrow bitusd with safe CR, sell bitusd at market price for bts.  If bts went up in price, your in the green, if it went down, your in the red.

That brings up the question with bidding. in the UI there is the label of "bid price."  Does this mean that if the system revives and our bid is included that is the price we borrow and sell bitusd for bts at?  Or is the price the system revives at where bitusd is sold for bts?
[/quote]

Yes....the Settlement Price

NO the bid price is just for ranking purposes and to determine if your bid will be included when the revival happens, several bidders could outbid you for example and push your ranking down..After the revival it is up to you when, how  or if, you want sell the bitUSD...The BTS price will be going up and down per usual trading activity...

Offline Brekyrself

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@bitstopia2049 & clockwork, thank you for the replies.

Please confirm the following hypothetical bid for BitUSD

mcr 1.75
GS 0.051
Debt I will take 10,000 bitUSD
Additional Collateral I provide 400,000 bts
CR 59.608
call price would be 0.029

Based on the formulas and bitUSD revives with my bid being inclusive, I am essentially "rewarded" an additional 200,000 bts as collateral in the long position?

I think the easiest way to approach it to make it less confusing..is to settle on what level of CR you want and then work from there...

Let's say upon revival you wish to maintain a minimum CR 3.00 with 10k debt position;  Settlement price = 19.55496 bts/bitUSD

So you will need in total $30,000 in collateral.
and the revival price is 11.17426 bts/bitUSD   (without bids)
So total BTS required = 335,228
The collateral associated with 10k debt in the settlement fund = 195,550
Therefore additional collateral required  =  139,678 with your starting call price =  0.02983 bitUSD
and your bid position  13.96 bts/bitUSD  and  CR  =  0.831

Always keep in mind however that you are taking on debt,I wouldn't consider the settlement collateral a "reward"....It is a bet.
You can do the same calculation using the revival price including bids if you want.

[/quote]

Thanks again.

I misunderstood the steemit article thinking by bidding the system was providing additional collateral as incentive to bid however the bts received at the end of the day is just what you would get by selling bitusd at a certain price?

Using the system before GS was simple, borrow bitusd with safe CR, sell bitusd at market price for bts.  If bts went up in price, your in the green, if it went down, your in the red.

That brings up the question with bidding. in the UI there is the label of "bid price."  Does this mean that if the system revives and our bid is included that is the price we borrow and sell bitusd for bts at?  Or is the price the system revives at where bitusd is sold for bts?

Offline bitstopia2049

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Please voice your wishes, suggestions or ideas for the marketing worker in a constructive way, I will happily listen.

So I sent the PM in here to you on March 20th ? 

To Moderator:  Does this forum allow for posting of a  *.png   graphic?   or do you have to be a Senior Member? 

Offline bitstopia2049

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@bitstopia2049 & clockwork, thank you for the replies.

Please confirm the following hypothetical bid for BitUSD

mcr 1.75
GS 0.051
Debt I will take 10,000 bitUSD
Additional Collateral I provide 400,000 bts
CR 59.608
call price would be 0.029

Based on the formulas and bitUSD revives with my bid being inclusive, I am essentially "rewarded" an additional 200,000 bts as collateral in the long position?
[/quote]

I think the easiest way to approach it to make it less confusing..is to settle on what level of CR you want and then work from there...

Let's say upon revival you wish to maintain a minimum CR 3.00 with 10k debt position;  Settlement price = 19.55496 bts/bitUSD

So you will need in total $30,000 in collateral.
and the revival price is 11.17426 bts/bitUSD   (without bids)
So total BTS required = 335,228
The collateral associated with 10k debt in the settlement fund = 195,550
Therefore additional collateral required  =  139,678 with your starting call price =  0.02983 bitUSD
and your bid position  13.96 bts/bitUSD  and  CR  =  0.831

Always keep in mind however that you are taking on debt,I wouldn't consider the settlement collateral a "reward"....It is a bet.
You can do the same calculation using the revival price including bids if you want.

Offline clockwork

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Please voice your wishes, suggestions or ideas for the marketing worker in a constructive way, I will happily listen.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/united-states-crypto-platform-huobicom-launches-fiat-crypto-trading

Does anyone have any experience with this exchange?   Can the foundation make a proposal to them to add BTS-USD pair..?

A direct fiat USD/BTS on ramp would be a major boon to a revamped Bitshares marketing campaign...

Obviously the sooner bitUSD is revived the stronger case the foundation can make...

Also..


https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/02/21/underestimate-samsung-galaxy-s10-crypto-millions-exposed-bitcoin/

I wonder if this announcement by Samsung had any influence on the BTS price spike on Upbit Exchange...Is Samsung aware of BTS' superior capabilities. ?

Is there a bitKRW asset? 

US$ =  1138 KRW   CNY = 169 KRW




@bitstopia2049 & clockwork, thank you for the replies.

Please confirm the following hypothetical bid for BitUSD

mcr 1.75
GS 0.051
Debt I will take 10,000 bitUSD
Additional Collateral I provide 400,000 bts
CR 59.608
call price would be 0.029

Based on the formulas and bitUSD revives with my bid being inclusive, I am essentially "rewarded" an additional 200,000 bts as collateral in the long position?

with the existing GS data (settlement pool/debt? although these constantly change as people settle their bitusd) ?

assume current bids as well (which are everchanging) ?

Offline Brekyrself

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Please voice your wishes, suggestions or ideas for the marketing worker in a constructive way, I will happily listen.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/united-states-crypto-platform-huobicom-launches-fiat-crypto-trading

Does anyone have any experience with this exchange?   Can the foundation make a proposal to them to add BTS-USD pair..?

A direct fiat USD/BTS on ramp would be a major boon to a revamped Bitshares marketing campaign...

Obviously the sooner bitUSD is revived the stronger case the foundation can make...

Also..


https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/02/21/underestimate-samsung-galaxy-s10-crypto-millions-exposed-bitcoin/

I wonder if this announcement by Samsung had any influence on the BTS price spike on Upbit Exchange...Is Samsung aware of BTS' superior capabilities. ?

Is there a bitKRW asset? 

US$ =  1138 KRW   CNY = 169 KRW




@bitstopia2049 & clockwork, thank you for the replies.

Please confirm the following hypothetical bid for BitUSD

mcr 1.75
GS 0.051
Debt I will take 10,000 bitUSD
Additional Collateral I provide 400,000 bts
CR 59.608
call price would be 0.029

Based on the formulas and bitUSD revives with my bid being inclusive, I am essentially "rewarded" an additional 200,000 bts as collateral in the long position?