Author Topic: bitusd peg  (Read 52956 times)

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Offline bitstopia2049

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2019, 02:02:38 am »
I guess it's hard to make you happy.

How could a benevolent whale participate (if such a person exists!) even if he or she wanted to?


Let the whales work...they could have easily remained on the sidelines during the bitUSD revival auction and let minnows and others participate...but they could not resist flexing their muscles

Thanks for your reply...It is not really about my happiness...I want the idea of DECENTRALIZATION to succeed...I want BTS to succeed..If I was selfish or mercenary in my disposition I would have lost interest in BTS a long time ago..

Benevolence:  the quality of being well meaning; kindness;

I find it hard to believe that submitting a bid on $3.8m of debt at the last minute (figuratively speaking) and blowing everyone else out of the water would be associated with "benevolence"…If there was some kind of "Robin Hood" intent underlying the action ..Well...I don't see it.... this just comes off as a plunderous stunt.

Action taken earlier might have been perceived differently given that bitUSD was in GS status for months..  My rough estimation -  ONE account acquired ~92% and another dozen accounts ~7%...So roughly 10 people (or groups) acquired 99% of the debt.   Is that really the size of the Bitshares universe?

I am not implying ALL whales have piratic intentions…but clearly if the idea is to entice users to expand the realm of BTS and acquire advocates across the globe, this was a chance to do that organically and at the same time show the resiliency of BTS and the extent of community support....   Some opportunities only come along once..

Offline pc

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2019, 06:14:16 am »
The intent of BSIP-18 is not to allow people to do something good for the community. Its intent is to provide a mechanism for revival, and incentives to use it. This has worked out nicely.

Bidding "at the last minute" makes sense, economically, if you want to acquire as much from the pool as possible. Just like on ebay, bidding early only drives the price up. IMO this behaviour is neither benevolent nor malevolent. It can be called selfish, but that's OK - we're acting in a market here, and participants are expected to act selfish. That's just how things work.

Note that the bidders has also accepted a significant risk with this investment. If the BTS price drops again, he might lose all of it.
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Online Thul3

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2019, 06:43:36 am »
Quote
Action taken earlier might have been perceived differently given that bitUSD was in GS status for months

I wouldn't through random assumptions when the "whale" who bought the majority of the BTS from the auction was one of the people who was most active, tried everything and even invested a lot of his own assets to not let global settlement happen.I haven't seen you being active like him to prevent that global settlement.I remember it where the "whale" even come to bitshares dex telegram group asking to take together actions to prevent this situation.

Haven't seen your support at that time.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 06:45:35 am by Thul3 »

Online clockwork

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2019, 08:09:29 am »
I guess it's hard to make you happy.

How could a benevolent whale participate (if such a person exists!) even if he or she wanted to?


Let the whales work...they could have easily remained on the sidelines during the bitUSD revival auction and let minnows and others participate...but they could not resist flexing their muscles

Thanks for your reply...It is not really about my happiness...I want the idea of DECENTRALIZATION to succeed...I want BTS to succeed..If I was selfish or mercenary in my disposition I would have lost interest in BTS a long time ago..

Benevolence:  the quality of being well meaning; kindness;

I find it hard to believe that submitting a bid on $3.8m of debt at the last minute (figuratively speaking) and blowing everyone else out of the water would be associated with "benevolence"…If there was some kind of "Robin Hood" intent underlying the action ..Well...I don't see it.... this just comes off as a plunderous stunt.

Action taken earlier might have been perceived differently given that bitUSD was in GS status for months..  My rough estimation -  ONE account acquired ~92% and another dozen accounts ~7%...So roughly 10 people (or groups) acquired 99% of the debt.   Is that really the size of the Bitshares universe?

I am not implying ALL whales have piratic intentions…but clearly if the idea is to entice users to expand the realm of BTS and acquire advocates across the globe, this was a chance to do that organically and at the same time show the resiliency of BTS and the extent of community support....   Some opportunities only come along once..

Succeeding in BSIP18 bidding has nothing to do with being a whale.

It's purely based on how much risk you're willing to take.

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2019, 10:02:53 am »
Succeeding in BSIP18 bidding has nothing to do with being a whale.

It's purely based on how much risk you're willing to take.
This!
Anyone could have put up a bid with collateral ratio of 20x, which would have resulted in getting fractions of the settlement pool.

And non of that was *new* or *unknown*. It's all written in the BSIP. Whether people understand the described
mechanics sufficiently to make use of them or not, is another question. There certainly was quite some education
going on on STEEM and on telegram. Probably also on Weechat.
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Offline bitstopia2049

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2019, 01:22:53 pm »
The intent of BSIP-18 is not to allow people to do something good for the community. Its intent is to provide a mechanism for revival, and incentives to use it. This has worked out nicely.

Bidding "at the last minute" makes sense, economically, if you want to acquire as much from the pool as possible. Just like on ebay, bidding early only drives the price up. IMO this behaviour is neither benevolent nor malevolent. It can be called selfish, but that's OK - we're acting in a market here, and participants are expected to act selfish. That's just how things work.

Note that the bidders has also accepted a significant risk with this investment. If the BTS price drops again, he might lose all of it.

I was not criticizing the quality or design of the mechanism of revival...A taxi is not intended to be used as an ambulance...but if circumstances warrant it then the vehicle can "allow people to do something good for the community"

I understand your perspective.... i.e. from a developer's view it was "nice" to see BSIP-18 work...but I suspect that most BTS holders would have preferred that the situation never got to that stage...sort of like how most flight attendants know the various emergency routines and where the exit doors are located, etc...but would be perfectly happy to go an entire career and never have to use them..

So I acknowledge it makes sense from a personal gain perspective...but the context here is trying to EXPAND the universe of BTS users...After all why did bitUSD go into GS status in the first place?
Bringing an Ebay sniper's tactic to this particular auction, under the circumstances, IMO is not positioning oneself with the best risk reward ratio...Sometimes "less is more and more is less"

The bidder could have increased his/her/their wealth just as much if not more, if BTS market cap goes from $150m to 500m or more without taking all that risk if the bidder had a different philosophical outlook, rather than the typical Wall St. attitude.  Spread the risk (among more people) means also spreading the reward.

 I mean don't you see the irony here given that Bitshares was created based primarily on a philosophy that was decidedly non-selfish?  "we're acting in trying to revive a market here,"

 It will take a collective effort to raise the BTS market cap to a level that it deserves...If you constantly raise the level of cynicism and or deprive people of incentives to participate just because you can..

..Well...He who has the gold rules...until there's nothing and no one left to rule.

Offline bitstopia2049

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2019, 01:32:07 pm »
Quote
Action taken earlier might have been perceived differently given that bitUSD was in GS status for months

I wouldn't through random assumptions when the "whale" who bought the majority of the BTS from the auction was one of the people who was most active, tried everything and even invested a lot of his own assets to not let global settlement happen.I haven't seen you being active like him to prevent that global settlement.I remember it where the "whale" even come to bitshares dex telegram group asking to take together actions to prevent this situation.

Haven't seen your support at that time.

I am not a member of the dex telegram group so I would be unaware...I will take your word that the whale has good intentions and I wish him well. I'm just voicing my opinion on this particular action at this moment in time.   Now that he has more at stake he should be leading the way to advocate for something different like..hmm...I don't know....maybe "hiring" DeCEO..

Offline bitstopia2049

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #67 on: April 10, 2019, 10:33:04 am »
is there anything being done to help restore it ?

https://www.spreaker.com/user/8321539/how-things-spread_2

starting @28:54 - 42:10         for those who don't have an hour

====================================
I've wondered what the foundation does  or can do?

How to get your ideas to spread - Seth Godin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBIVlM435Zg


Offline bitstopia2049

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2019, 07:16:04 am »
Please voice your wishes, suggestions or ideas for the marketing worker in a constructive way, I will happily listen.

Stefan see what I was predicting both in the PM I  sent you on 3/20 and earlier in this thread...

What better way to demonstrate his Democracy Dollars concept  than right now establishing a Bitshares UIA as I described..

first debates are 6 weeks away....it's an opportunity to reach thousands of early adopters and average, but motivated (non-crypto) people and build awareness or at the very least create a single purpose BTS wallet..! 

(I don't know exactly how DOGE or Crypto Kitties got started..but sometimes it just takes a little spark..)

https://www.yang2020.com/blog/3-dc-rally/

Examples :

Andrew Yang made his CNN Town Hall look easy   (16 mins)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w72n4SAC7m0

Restoring Democracy Andrew Yang Town Hall with Lawrence Lessig   (81 mins)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjiHwx6bpkg

Offline bitstopia2049

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #69 on: April 21, 2019, 01:16:47 am »
I guess it's hard to make you happy.

They have what seems like a cumbersome aspect to their donation procedure " a 15 minute phone call"..   

https://www.cnet.com/news/cryptocurrency-needs-governments-help-says-presidential-hopeful-andrew-yang/


My pro-bitshares alter ego says there's a way to automate it with a BTS wallet .   Am I wrong?    Would it require a BSIP or not?
Maybe a dev could answer that question...that would make me happy

An automated process could persuasively illustrate the fundraising cost savings.. energy efficiency & security of the DPOS system as well as the laissez-faire foundation of crytptocurrency


Offline sschiessl

Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #70 on: April 21, 2019, 07:21:30 am »
I guess it's hard to make you happy.

They have what seems like a cumbersome aspect to their donation procedure " a 15 minute phone call"..   

https://www.cnet.com/news/cryptocurrency-needs-governments-help-says-presidential-hopeful-andrew-yang/


My pro-bitshares alter ego says there's a way to automate it with a BTS wallet .   Am I wrong?    Would it require a BSIP or not?
Maybe a dev could answer that question...that would make me happy

An automated process could persuasively illustrate the fundraising cost savings.. energy efficiency & security of the DPOS system as well as the laissez-faire foundation of crytptocurrency

Fundraiser would be nothing more than creating a new token, possible create some nice UX for it and sell it / give it away, no BSIP needed.

Offline bitstopia2049

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #71 on: April 21, 2019, 12:28:36 pm »
I guess it's hard to make you happy.

They have what seems like a cumbersome aspect to their donation procedure " a 15 minute phone call"..   

https://www.cnet.com/news/cryptocurrency-needs-governments-help-says-presidential-hopeful-andrew-yang/


My pro-bitshares alter ego says there's a way to automate it with a BTS wallet .   Am I wrong?    Would it require a BSIP or not?
Maybe a dev could answer that question...that would make me happy

An automated process could persuasively illustrate the fundraising cost savings.. energy efficiency & security of the DPOS system as well as the laissez-faire foundation of crytptocurrency

Fundraiser would be nothing more than creating a new token, possible create some nice UX for it and sell it / give it away, no BSIP needed.
Thanks for your reply..
How does creating a new token incorporate compliance with their contribution rules ?
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdytCf7EoM2IPF26w-6HTqg1Sib7nwu5eMXRsThwMm7cKAPAA/viewform


Offline bitstopia2049

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2019, 01:55:22 am »
Requested to link this from bitstopia

https://imgur.com/a/PVGXxYm

In case you missed it...This was an interesting data analysis... 

https://steemit.com/bitshares/@paws1t1veev/analysis-of-bitusd-global-settlement

https://www.dexbot.info/2019/05/21/understanding-trading-activity-and-potential-causes-of-bitasset-settlement/

one of the conclusions/suggestions...

Allow BitAsset issuance to be backed by other Coins…

Yes, This is a change in one of the core BTS principles. However, BTS may fail if it does not adapt. Allowing a diversified holdings of coins (BTC, LTC, ETH, BTS, and more) could improve stability of BTS. In Investing, there are very few free lunches. Holding a diversified portfolio is one of the only “free lunches” in investing.


Given the current crypto bull market sentiment...wouldn't it make sense to for a BSIP to be put up for a vote to accomplish this..?...

The BTS price is not rising at the same rate along with the rest of the crypto market because there is insufficient demand

so how to generate more demand?  and how else to enable traders/market makers to increase the amount bitUSD into existence?

Maybe then the foundation's marketing or a more vigorous and innovative marketing worker can offer this as a stable coin to a national consumer retail chain that wants to increase it's market share versus Amazon, reduce transaction costs, and have a secure, time-tested, fast, energy efficient payment processing application, with smart contracts and all the advantages over fiat currencies...

Or just wait to end up like Toys 'R US

or SEARS   https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/04/18/sears-lawsuit-eddie-lampert-esl-investments/3507382002/

or..

Why can't I buy this stuff with bitUSD?

https://shop.yang2020.com/products/math-hat
https://shop.yang2020.com/collections/apparel

(Since first debate is June 26 and June 27 I suspect that people will be buying more after these dates..)

Offline pc

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2019, 08:44:21 am »
Given the current crypto bull market sentiment...wouldn't it make sense to for a BSIP to be put up for a vote to accomplish this..?...

Of course it would make sense. Problem is... we don't have such a BSIP. People keep requesting this, but so far nobody has come up with an explanation *how exactly* this would work.

What does it *mean* to have an asset backed by different things? Suppose for example that bitUSD was backed by BTS and OPEN.BTC. Can you short bitUSD by putting up either BTS or OPEN.BTC as collateral? Or 50% of each? What does it mean for forced settlement? Can the settler choose if he receives BTS or OPEN.BTC? If he chooses BTS but the least collateralized short is backed by OPEN.BTC, where does the chain find BTS for him? What if OL goes bankrupt, so the OPEN.BTC collateral is worthless but the BTS collateral is not?

A BSIP must answer all these questions, and many more.
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Offline bitstopia2049

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Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2019, 11:07:48 am »
Given the current crypto bull market sentiment...wouldn't it make sense to for a BSIP to be put up for a vote to accomplish this..?...

Of course it would make sense. Problem is... we don't have such a BSIP. People keep requesting this, but so far nobody has come up with an explanation *how exactly* this would work.

What does it *mean* to have an asset backed by different things? Suppose for example that bitUSD was backed by BTS and OPEN.BTC. Can you short bitUSD by putting up either BTS or OPEN.BTC as collateral? Or 50% of each? What does it mean for forced settlement? Can the settler choose if he receives BTS or OPEN.BTC? If he chooses BTS but the least collateralized short is backed by OPEN.BTC, where does the chain find BTS for him? What if OL goes bankrupt, so the OPEN.BTC collateral is worthless but the BTS collateral is not?

A BSIP must answer all these questions, and many more.

What does it *mean* to have an asset backed by different things? Suppose for example that bitUSD was backed by BTS and OPEN.BTC.

 Can you short bitUSD by putting up either BTS or OPEN.BTC as collateral?  Yes

Or 50% of each? NO    it should be TWO separate short transactions..

What does it mean for forced settlement?  Can the settler choose if he receives BTS or OPEN.BTC?  NO

 If he chooses BTS but the least collateralized short is backed by OPEN.BTC, where does the chain find BTS for him?   

Open Market or Insurance Fund or Reserve Fund

What if OL goes bankrupt, so the OPEN.BTC collateral is worthless but the BTS collateral is not?

Insurance Fund

Point is this ....needs to get started or once again an opportunity will be blown..