Author Topic: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6  (Read 2412 times)

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Offline alt

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2019, 11:54:14 pm »
I will not support change MCR to 1.6 because it's very hard to decide which one is better.
this can't contribute too much to encourage supply, but increase big unstable to the market.
and it's even more bad in the future when you decide to increase MCR like from 1.6 to 1.7

Online bitcrab

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2019, 04:27:31 am »
I will not support change MCR to 1.6 because it's very hard to decide which one is better.
this can't contribute too much to encourage supply, but increase big unstable to the market.
and it's even more bad in the future when you decide to increase MCR like from 1.6 to 1.7

Change is always together with difficulty and risk, but BTS cannot be great without change.

And I believe changing MCR to 1.6 is a change with low risk, but will contribute obviously to the whole ecosystem.

DAI now has a market cap 10+ times of bitCNY. no one should be satisfied even if you have hundreds of millions of BTS.

Surely reducing MCR will contribute to encourage bitCNY supply, if I have 10M BTS, now I can borrow 1.8M bitCNY with CR=2.2, if MCR change to 1.6, I can borrow 1.95M bitCNY with CR=2.05, both CR has the same distance to MCR, in other word, same risk on margin calling.

Yes, 1.6 is more closer to GS, but there is still a big buffer, and BSIP58 is already active on bitCNY, in the worst black swan will not happen, but black swan protection will happen, which will not bring pain like black swan, but just cause some bitCNY devaluation and will restore soon, we have experienced this months ago.

Yes, it's more difficult to increase MCR, but that's also possible when the whole community reach strong consensus to do that, and this change is to 1.6, not much lower value like 1.2 or 1.3, in my view we do not need to change it back from 1.6 to 1.75 in long time.

As a reference, DAI has a MCR of 1.5.

I regret that you do not support this change as a whale.

I have no other choice, I'll try my best to lobby the whole community to win this change.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 04:34:19 am by bitcrab »

Offline jackingyang

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2019, 08:05:38 am »
I will not support change MCR to 1.6 because it's very hard to decide which one is better.
this can't contribute too much to encourage supply, but increase big unstable to the market.
and it's even more bad in the future when you decide to increase MCR like from 1.6 to 1.7
Please support this change

Offline xeroc

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2019, 09:49:23 am »
Arguable, DAI

* hasn't seen major bear market move like bitAssets did
* DAI us collateralized by ETH which has much higher market cap than BTS

Hence, I am not sure comparing only supply with DAI makes a lot of sense.
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Offline bench

Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2019, 10:06:10 pm »
To have stable coins in a highly dynamic environment, we need dynamic parameters to protect the environment and traders better.

In an oversold market lower MCR are needed to compensate the outflow of money and in an overbought market the higher MCR prevents from over collateralize the system.

We had a long way testing with 175% and BSIP42, and both failed. To improve the ecosystem I support the way/idea of @clockwork with dynamic parameters.
Having a constant MCR in a dynamic market brings more trouble, than benefits.

Additional safety features are needed to lower the MCR and help against price suppression.
With a auto settle function for holders with a MCR of 1 from the fee pool, we could avoid a GS. These BTS can be spent afterwards to pay the worker.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 10:40:47 pm by bench »
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Offline binggo

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2019, 12:52:11 am »
To have stable coins in a highly dynamic environment, we need dynamic parameters to protect the environment and traders better.

In an oversold market lower MCR are needed to compensate the outflow of money and in an overbought market the higher MCR prevents from over collateralize the system.

We had a long way testing with 175% and BSIP42, and both failed. To improve the ecosystem I support the way/idea of @clockwork with dynamic parameters.
Having a constant MCR in a dynamic market brings more trouble, than benefits.


Having a dynamic parameters MCR in a dynamic market will bring more trouble, it's a disaster to the system.

i think we have learned some lessons from BSIP42, GS and other rule,but i found we didn't.

The high MCR, The high MSSR, dynamic MCR, dynamic MSSR, dynamic feed price, low settlement offset, the GS, all these were wrong thoughts,these can‘t solve anything,just destroy the market more quickly, more deep.


Additional safety features are needed to lower the MCR and help against price suppression.
With a auto settle function for holders with a MCR of 1 from the fee pool, we could avoid a GS. These BTS can be spent afterwards to pay the worker.

i agreed with this thought, it's have something in common with mine, maybe we need to set a insurance fund of GS and use the TARGET COLLATERAL RATIO to handle the CR of 1.10, if the insurance fund of GS can't handle, then black swan protection, if the CR which 40% of the whole system debit is down to 1.10, then settle the bitasset. 8)


i have gived a way to solve some problems: use the settlement offset,

Make the settlement offset varied with CR;

The settlement can have the TARGET COLLATERAL RATIO.

1. CR below the MCR will get less settlement offset, e.g. if you CR is 1.7, you will have 0 settlement offset, if you CR is 1.6, you will have -0.5% settlement offset, the Minimum settlement offset is -2%.

the settlement Delay below MCR will be one hour or more less.

2. CR above the MCR will get more settlement offset, e.g. if you CR is 1.8, you will have 2% settlement offset, if you CR is 2.0,  you will have 3% settlement offset. the Maximum settlement offset is 6%.

the settlement Delay above MCR still be 24 hours.

thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 12:51:30 am by binggo »

Offline FractalNode

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2019, 11:27:39 am »
(...)
maybe we need to set a insurance fund of GS and use the TARGET COLLATERAL RATIO to handle the CR of 1.10, if the insurance fund of GS can't handle, then black swan protection, if the CR which 40% of the whole system debit is down to 1.10, then settle the bitasset. 8)
(...)
thoughts?

IMO insurance fund is "unhealthy" and makes people more prone to risk because someone else will pay for their mistakes.
###

in the current market state, reducing the "MCR" from 1.75 to 1.6 is not so bad, but we must be able to react quickly to market situations. But first and foremost I think that controlling parameters through constantly new BSIP is not a good way. These parameters should be dealt with by Witnesses (MCR, MSSR) or by the Committe Mambers (Settlement offset). I do not agree with the opinion that they lack economic knowledge to do it. This game is quite simple and the rules of this game are well known to witnesses.

Witnesses can even increase the value of the MCR parameter because it is not fully known when the majority will be achieved. If only 1 or 2 changes this parameter, it announces changes and tells investors that maybe they should increase their CR, if not they will be margin called


Please, encourage witnesses you vote for to change parameters, that is their task and they should be more pro-active. At the moment only two of them have a different opinion.

Online bitcrab

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2019, 12:05:50 pm »
frequently changing MCR will put the ecosystem into danger.

don't request witnesses to play the role of economists, this is financial system, not a toy of anyone.

parameters like MCR, MSSR, force settlement offset need not to change every day, just as Federal Reserve need not to adjust the interest rate every day.

if you guys like the "dynamic MCR" solution so much, I suggest you to test it in some small smartcoin like bitEUR, just leave safety space to bitCNY and bitUSD.


Online Thul3

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2019, 09:13:31 pm »
I voted against the reduce of MCR not because that i'm in general against it but because i belive its not the right timing to currently reduce MCR from 1.75 to 1.6 .
Timing on reducing MCR is a very important part.

Example OMO fund.Would we have used the OMO fund at a later time it would have significantly supported the supply of bitassets and value of BTS.The ground idea of the OMO fund was/is good but executed on a wrong time which caused in the end more damage than support because of wrong timing.

Offline bitProfessor

Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2019, 12:00:46 am »
When do u think the right time to reduce MCR?

Online Thul3

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2019, 08:29:25 pm »
When do u think the right time to reduce MCR?

In arround 2 months.There are many indicators we will see a last final bigger downtrend (third bottom) before getting the real uptrend.
Reduce of MCR should only happen in real uptrend to avoid getting negative effects in a downtrend.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 08:37:13 pm by Thul3 »

Offline xeroc

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2019, 07:51:43 am »
In arround 2 months.There are many indicators we will see a last final bigger downtrend (third bottom) before getting the real uptrend.
Reduce of MCR should only happen in real uptrend to avoid getting negative effects in a downtrend.
Good reasoning. We should be careful, reputation of bitCNY is good lately and IMHO, a premium is much more acceptable than a GS.
However, Comparing bitCNY with other "stablecoin" projects, the biggest collateral requirement that you can find outside of bitshares is 1.5x from DAI - (while here, 1.6x is proposed).
Obviously, most "stablecoins" only have 1x (being backed by the underlying asset itself).

I do know that DAI is also struggling, but they don't have the instruments that we have (but others). Imho, we should allow an MCR to go as low as 1.6
But I would grant permission to witnesses to pick between 1.6 and 1.75 according to premiums instead of fixing it.

For that reason, I do support reduction of MCR to 1.6.

Hope people can understand my reasoning.
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Offline matle85

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2019, 09:04:31 am »
I share Thul's concern about a lower low but agree with Xerox's reasoning.

Main thing is making sure that margins are sold as we drop so I am keen to see some ideas around making sure that happens implemented.


Offline bitProfessor

Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2019, 09:21:11 am »
When do u think the right time to reduce MCR?

In arround 2 months.There are many indicators we will see a last final bigger downtrend (third bottom) before getting the real uptrend.
Reduce of MCR should only happen in real uptrend to avoid getting negative effects in a downtrend.
Agree,But the market is hard to predict and the right time is hard to grasp.

Offline binggo

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Re: [Poll] BSIP59:Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.6
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2019, 09:42:51 am »
When do u think the right time to reduce MCR?

In arround 2 months.There are many indicators we will see a last final bigger downtrend (third bottom) before getting the real uptrend.
Reduce of MCR should only happen in real uptrend to avoid getting negative effects in a downtrend.
Agree,But the market is hard to predict and the right time is hard to grasp.

The settlement, we can use it to let the market to control themself.

The settlement offset, the settlement delay, the TARGET COLLATERAL RATIO to control the MCR,even set the MCR=1.5 or 1.35.