Author Topic: Bitshares at the cross roads  (Read 10017 times)

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Offline Crypto Kong

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Ok , I don’t know the agreement is stated in advance,I apologize for my mistakes.

Very good of you to own up to your mistakes, much respect :)

Offline ioex

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Ok , I don’t know the agreement is stated in advance,I apologize for my mistakes.

Offline Crypto Kong

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I have quite a bit to say in response, but I will let Daniel Larimer answer for me.


EOS - Dan Msg Only, [16.05.19 07:44]
No. The issue is any post launch decisions made by any means other than chain splits like bitcoin cash violates token some buyers expectations. So a network must be committed to immutability or it is fundamentally governed by minority of influencers. Governance isn’t bad, it has a place.  The problem is those who want every solution to solve every problem

Replying to:
 >  Voting buying is the biggest issue

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1186778)



EOS - Dan Msg Only, [16.05.19 18:17]
The purpose of bp is to decentralize decisions on protocol updates and censorship resistance and generally scaling trx processing.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1187700)



Regarding the BEOS model of semi centralization/governance (BEOS holders still vote with their stake):


EOS - Dan Msg Only, [16.05.19 18:17]
The purpose of bp is to decentralize decisions on protocol updates and censorship resistance and generally scaling trx processing.

Chains can be centralized and have value. Especially in a multichain world.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156174)

Centralized chains in good hands can grow faster and carry on creators vision.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156181)

Decentralized chains slow to a crawl.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156182)

My point is don’t hate on centralized systems unless they become monopoly scale.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156186)

Everything is decentralized in a competitive market

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156187)

Remember you are centralized

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156189)

Decentralization is a tool not a goal in itself

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156190)

This. Plus with public accountability .

Replying to:
 >  we trust companies to run databases but the thought of one running a private blockchain makes people go nuts. who cares if someone wants to fork EOS and run all the BP's themselves? average users wont give a shit about that. they'll care about the dapps and services.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156195)



If you want real companies doing mass adoption scale things with real investors under government regulation then they need control over the platform that they build.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156199)

You might kill it too young.

Replying to:
 >  Is it necessary for us to hate so it doesn't become monopoly scale?

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156200)

Basically people don’t want to go to jail

So hating them for creating something is misguided

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156203)

I think we need systems that are more decentralized than bitcoin, eos, and eth. I also think we need more centralized solutions too.  I’m working toward enabling both sides to scale.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156214)



Nicely done, shows that OP has cherry picked a couple of messages to suit his agenda that doesn't represent bytemasters full opinion.

Offline michaelx

Are you talking about BEOS?
I think the boes account shouldn’t vote, it just hold others’ BTS, and holders don’t give vote rights to beos!

Actually, they agree to it in the member agreement.

You didn't have a problem asking for BEOS to vote for you here:

https://steemit.com/beos/@steem-samiam/beos-at-sea-7
Hi, could you vote witness ioex ?

And we actually did look and put in a vote but it appears you were missing blocks. Fix it and we might vote again and give you a chance to prove yourself as a witness.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 02:57:48 pm by michaelx »

Offline Crypto Kong

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Are you talking about BEOS?
I think the boes account shouldn’t vote, it just hold others’ BTS, and holders don’t give vote rights to beos!

You don't speak for me or the others who have sent BTS to the BEOS gateway. I understand I am giving BEOS team the right to vote with my BTS and am happy for them to do so, I'm sure the others can speak for themselves too.

Offline onceuponatime

Are you talking about BEOS?
I think the boes account shouldn’t vote, it just hold others’ BTS, and holders don’t give vote rights to beos!

They certainly do give voting rights to the BLCA to vote their stake while they are receiving the rainfall. It is quite explicity stated in the agreement that the BLCA votes to further the integration of BEOs with bitshares.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 02:53:57 pm by onceuponatime »

Offline ioex

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Are you talking about BEOS?
I think the boes account shouldn’t vote, it just hold others’ BTS, and holders don’t give vote rights to beos!

Offline michaelx

I have quite a bit to say in response, but I will let Daniel Larimer answer for me.


EOS - Dan Msg Only, [16.05.19 07:44]
No. The issue is any post launch decisions made by any means other than chain splits like bitcoin cash violates token some buyers expectations. So a network must be committed to immutability or it is fundamentally governed by minority of influencers. Governance isn’t bad, it has a place.  The problem is those who want every solution to solve every problem

Replying to:
 >  Voting buying is the biggest issue

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1186778)



EOS - Dan Msg Only, [16.05.19 18:17]
The purpose of bp is to decentralize decisions on protocol updates and censorship resistance and generally scaling trx processing.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1187700)



Regarding the BEOS model of semi centralization/governance (BEOS holders still vote with their stake):


EOS - Dan Msg Only, [16.05.19 18:17]
The purpose of bp is to decentralize decisions on protocol updates and censorship resistance and generally scaling trx processing.

Chains can be centralized and have value. Especially in a multichain world.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156174)

Centralized chains in good hands can grow faster and carry on creators vision.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156181)

Decentralized chains slow to a crawl.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156182)

My point is don’t hate on centralized systems unless they become monopoly scale.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156186)

Everything is decentralized in a competitive market

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156187)

Remember you are centralized

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156189)

Decentralization is a tool not a goal in itself

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156190)

This. Plus with public accountability .

Replying to:
 >  we trust companies to run databases but the thought of one running a private blockchain makes people go nuts. who cares if someone wants to fork EOS and run all the BP's themselves? average users wont give a shit about that. they'll care about the dapps and services.


🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156195)



If you want real companies doing mass adoption scale things with real investors under government regulation then they need control over the platform that they build.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156199)

You might kill it too young.

Replying to:
 >  Is it necessary for us to hate so it doesn't become monopoly scale?

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156200)

Basically people don’t want to go to jail

So hating them for creating something is misguided

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156203)

I think we need systems that are more decentralized than bitcoin, eos, and eth. I also think we need more centralized solutions too.  I’m working toward enabling both sides to scale.

🔗 Context 🔗 (http://t.me/EOSproject/1156214)


« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 02:49:38 am by michaelx »

Offline onceuponatime

"making empty promises to greedy retards"

I'd guess that the best place for you to look for a retard is in a mirror.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"So we pretty much demonstrated that at most latitudes we've got satellite connectivity to the BEOS network.

Currently a BEOS node with 5 peers consumes about 2.6 kbps down and less than 1 kbps up. This is easily handled by Royal Caribbean's high speed 10 mbps network.

Stay tuned when I check it out in the Atlantic Bermuda Triangle on my cruise with Bytemaster and family next month."

https://steemit.com/bitshares/@stan/beos-completes-its-first-trans-pacific-journey

Offline Crypto Kong

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This is a throw-away account to protect us from defamation from Stan Larimer. You can call me Don.

It is our opinion that the Bitshares community has to make a hard decision sooner than later: How to deal with bribery and vote-buying that is currently taking place.
The question this community needs to answer is:

Should Bitshares community allow vote buying and concentration of voting power and are we fine with the consequences?

If we let the current situation go on, we (yes, the entire community) set a dangerous precedence for subsequent "projects" to repeat the same scheme - and they may be even more convincing and successful then what is currently taking place. Greed can be dangerous to Bitshares.

Now, answer these questions:

  • Are you willing to risk the entire reserve fund be taken by some random/new player making empty promises to greedy retards?
  • Are you willing to risk our developers to move on because their workers are at stake?
  • Do you want to hand over control over the Blockchain to someone unfamiliar with the technology?
  • Do you honor the work done by 3rd parties that delivered without even claiming to be a partner of Bitshare
  • Do you realize a hostile takeover can end in the blockchain being crippled by hostile committee?

Good for you, we have options and are discussing them with key players in the space already.

Finally, some random quotes from Daniel Larimer:

Quote
I suspect that it would be trivial for any of the previously elected delegates to black-list transactions that vote for the attacker.  They could then easily hard fork out the transactions that voted in the attacking delegates and block any future transactions that would vote for them.
(bytemaster, bitsharestalk.org)

Quote
If attacker is a collusion by the largest whales, then either the whales think the "attack" is a feature that will enhance the protocol or the "community" will fork the whales out. Bitcoin and Ethereum have both seen what happens when those with large influence use it to change the rules against the minority interests (ETC and BCC).
(Daniel Larimer, https://steemit.com/eos/@dan/reponse-to-vitalik-s-written-remarks)

@Admins: I request this account being deleted (with this post staying, if possible).

Nice way to be taken seriously by starting off your thread with ad hominem calling a significant portion of the community, holders of 360 million BTS, "retards". Your argument is so bad you choose to open it this way, making your first point to insult the community... Well done.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 01:26:10 pm by Crypto Kong »

sockpuppet

  • Guest
This is a throw-away account to protect us from defamation from Stan Larimer. You can call me Don.

It is our opinion that the Bitshares community has to make a hard decision sooner than later: How to deal with bribery and vote-buying that is currently taking place.
The question this community needs to answer is:

Should Bitshares community allow vote buying and concentration of voting power and are we fine with the consequences?

If we let the current situation go on, we (yes, the entire community) set a dangerous precedence for subsequent "projects" to repeat the same scheme - and they may be even more convincing and successful then what is currently taking place. Greed can be dangerous to Bitshares.

Now, answer these questions:

  • Are you willing to risk the entire reserve fund be taken by some random/new player making empty promises to greedy retards?
  • Are you willing to risk our developers to move on because their workers are at stake?
  • Do you want to hand over control over the Blockchain to someone unfamiliar with the technology?
  • Do you honor the work done by 3rd parties that delivered without even claiming to be a partner of Bitshare
  • Do you realize a hostile takeover can end in the blockchain being crippled by hostile committee?

Good for you, we have options and are discussing them with key players in the space already.

Finally, some random quotes from Daniel Larimer:

Quote
I suspect that it would be trivial for any of the previously elected delegates to black-list transactions that vote for the attacker.  They could then easily hard fork out the transactions that voted in the attacking delegates and block any future transactions that would vote for them.
(bytemaster, bitsharestalk.org)

Quote
If attacker is a collusion by the largest whales, then either the whales think the "attack" is a feature that will enhance the protocol or the "community" will fork the whales out. Bitcoin and Ethereum have both seen what happens when those with large influence use it to change the rules against the minority interests (ETC and BCC).
(Daniel Larimer, https://steemit.com/eos/@dan/reponse-to-vitalik-s-written-remarks)

@Admins: I request this account being deleted (with this post staying, if possible).