Author Topic: MARGIN CALL  (Read 641 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Peryn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
MARGIN CALL
« on: April 28, 2019, 07:07:03 pm »
hi all.
Why not do it in Bitshara, so that when a margin trading company is reached, it takes -10-15% and is placed in a fund, from which they then encourage those who close the margin?

Offline binggo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1033
    • View Profile
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2019, 12:07:45 am »
hi all.
Why not do it in Bitshara, so that when a margin trading company is reached, it takes -10-15% and is placed in a fund, from which they then encourage those who close the margin?
DO IT

Offline pc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1463
    • View Profile
    • Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko?
  • BitShares: cyrano
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2019, 07:17:46 am »
That's the purpose of MSSR. Margin calls pay MSSR% more than the fair price for covering their debt.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline binggo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1033
    • View Profile
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2019, 10:47:10 am »
That's the purpose of MSSR. Margin calls pay MSSR% more than the fair price for covering their debt.
NO.

https://cdp.makerdao.com/
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 10:56:21 am by binggo »

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12874
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2019, 01:17:47 pm »
1) Write a BSIP
2) Get it approved
3) Get it implemented
4) Upgrade BitShares
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2019, 01:35:06 pm »
The feeding price shall not be lower than(the price on DEX × bitCNY premium rate). This should be clear first.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2019, 01:44:30 pm »
There are two main factors that cause the current bitcny premium to be too high.
First, the feed price is lower than the actual price.
Second, MSSR is too large.

Offline Thul3

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 244
    • View Profile
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2019, 01:51:50 pm »
Quote
First, the feed price is lower than the actual price.
Funny cause on my screen feed price is 0.3421 bitcny and real price on dex is 0.321 .
Should we lower now the feedprice by 6% to match feed price to lower real dex price ?
I don't see you complaining about that ?

Quote
Second, MSSR is too large.
MSSR is too large ?How does it come no margin call is getting bought if its too large?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 01:53:26 pm by Thul3 »

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2019, 03:11:40 pm »
Quote
First, the feed price is lower than the actual price.
Funny cause on my screen feed price is 0.3421 bitcny and real price on dex is 0.321 .
Should we lower now the feedprice by 6% to match feed price to lower real dex price ?
I don't see you complaining about that ?

Quote
Second, MSSR is too large.
MSSR is too large ?How does it come no margin call is getting bought if its too large?

Now bitcny's premium is 6.18%.  The actual price of bts is 0.3264*1.0618=0.3466.  The feed price is 0.3423.  1% lower.

The margin was not available because the premium was too high.

Why recycle bitcny when the premium is too high and bitcny is lacking?

According to the current feeding price, when the premium of bitcny reaches 3%, the system starts to recycle bitcny. this premium is too high!

I want to ask you, do you know how the 3% is calculated?

Offline Peryn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2019, 07:36:25 pm »
1) Write a BSIP
2) Get it approved
3) Get it implemented
4) Upgrade BitShares

I have very few bitshars to want growth. this thought for the future

Offline pc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1463
    • View Profile
    • Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko?
  • BitShares: cyrano
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2019, 06:01:01 am »
That's the purpose of MSSR. Margin calls pay MSSR% more than the fair price for covering their debt.
NO.

Then please explain what the purpose of MSSR is in your opinion.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline binggo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1033
    • View Profile
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2019, 10:05:18 am »
That's the purpose of MSSR. Margin calls pay MSSR% more than the fair price for covering their debt.
NO.

Then please explain what the purpose of MSSR is in your opinion.

MSSR is MSSR.

Quote
when a margin trading company is reached, it takes -10-15% and is placed in a fund
This is not MSSR.

https://cdp.makerdao.com/

Offline pc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1463
    • View Profile
    • Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko?
  • BitShares: cyrano
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2019, 06:39:06 am »
Quote
when a margin trading company is reached, it takes -10-15% and is placed in a fund
This is not MSSR.

No, but this is:
from which they then encourage those who close the margin?

I don't see how an intermediate fund would make a difference (or how exactly this would work in the first place).
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline binggo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1033
    • View Profile
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2019, 09:02:00 am »
The Liquidation Penalty is a fee added to the total outstanding Dai debt when a liquidation occurs, which is subtracted from a user's collateral holdings

« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 09:05:29 am by binggo »

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12874
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2019, 07:07:54 am »
I don't see how an intermediate fund would make a difference (or how exactly this would work in the first place).
There is quite some discussion about this on telegram, lead by @clockwork. I'd like to see his proposal put on paper so there is something to discuss.

These endless discussion here on the forum where people try to tune individual parameters for what ever reason is counterproductive, IMHO
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3573
    • View Profile
    • Steemit Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2019, 03:52:29 pm »

Quote
Second, MSSR is too large.
MSSR is too large ?How does it come no margin call is getting bought if its too large?

To be fair, (I observed that) MSSR has nothing to do with whether margin calls would get bought.

We had a 10% MSSR before, in a downtrend bitUSD was usually traded at around 12-15% premium so margin calls didn't get bought.

We have a 2% MSSR now, bitUSD is traded at around 3.5% premium, nobody eats margin calls as well.

Only in an uptrend or when the price is bouncing up the margin calls will get bought.
BTS account: abit
BTS committee member: abit
BTS witness: in.abit

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2019, 10:49:48 pm »

Quote
Second, MSSR is too large.
MSSR is too large ?How does it come no margin call is getting bought if its too large?

To be fair, (I observed that) MSSR has nothing to do with whether margin calls would get bought.

We had a 10% MSSR before, in a downtrend bitUSD was usually traded at around 12-15% premium so margin calls didn't get bought.

We have a 2% MSSR now, bitUSD is traded at around 3.5% premium, nobody eats margin calls as well.

Only in an uptrend or when the price is bouncing up the margin calls will get bought.

      Exactly.  High MSSR is almost useless except to increase the premium.  101% is enough.
      Another problem is that the price increase on DEX has almost no effect on the feeding price.  This is very unfair.  The actual price on DEX (transaction price *bitcny premium) can at least serve as the bottom line for the feeding price.

Offline abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3573
    • View Profile
    • Steemit Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2019, 11:38:57 pm »

Quote
Second, MSSR is too large.
MSSR is too large ?How does it come no margin call is getting bought if its too large?

To be fair, (I observed that) MSSR has nothing to do with whether margin calls would get bought.

We had a 10% MSSR before, in a downtrend bitUSD was usually traded at around 12-15% premium so margin calls didn't get bought.

We have a 2% MSSR now, bitUSD is traded at around 3.5% premium, nobody eats margin calls as well.

Only in an uptrend or when the price is bouncing up the margin calls will get bought.

      Exactly.  High MSSR is almost useless except to increase the premium.  101% is enough.
      Another problem is that the price increase on DEX has almost no effect on the feeding price.  This is very unfair.  The actual price on DEX (transaction price *bitcny premium) can at least serve as the bottom line for the feeding price.
You're self-contradictory.

Logically speaking, if MSSR only matters to premium because it only affects the BTS/bitCNY market, then "the price increase on DEX" means only trading price of BTS/bitCNY market as well, which indicates that bitCNY's premium is decreasing (even to negative) but doesn't mean BTS price is increasing, then why we need to feed higher price?
BTS account: abit
BTS committee member: abit
BTS witness: in.abit

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2019, 01:05:17 am »

Quote
Second, MSSR is too large.
MSSR is too large ?How does it come no margin call is getting bought if its too large?

To be fair, (I observed that) MSSR has nothing to do with whether margin calls would get bought.

We had a 10% MSSR before, in a downtrend bitUSD was usually traded at around 12-15% premium so margin calls didn't get bought.

We have a 2% MSSR now, bitUSD is traded at around 3.5% premium, nobody eats margin calls as well.

Only in an uptrend or when the price is bouncing up the margin calls will get bought.

      Exactly.  High MSSR is almost useless except to increase the premium.  101% is enough.
      Another problem is that the price increase on DEX has almost no effect on the feeding price.  This is very unfair.  The actual price on DEX (transaction price *bitcny premium) can at least serve as the bottom line for the feeding price.
You're self-contradictory.

Logically speaking, if MSSR only matters to premium because it only affects the BTS/bitCNY market, then "the price increase on DEX" means only trading price of BTS/bitCNY market as well, which indicates that bitCNY's premium is decreasing (even to negative) but doesn't mean BTS price is increasing, then why we need to feed higher price?

       我还是用中文吧,表达的清楚些,我说的是两件事。
       一方面,在下跌过程中,造成bitcny溢价有两个主要因素。一是MSSR。二是喂价低于内盘真实价格(内盘价*bitcny溢价)的比例。如果溢价大于这两者的和,爆仓单没有压盘的效应,反之则有。尽量减少这两个比例,就能够减少溢价。想一想,为什么mssr是102,但是前几天bitcny溢价达到4%了,爆仓单还在压盘呢?就是喂价低了啊。
      另一方面,现在喂价基本不考虑内盘价,是极其错误的。假设,有两个大户,一个在外盘砸盘,一个在内盘拉盘,谁会赢?内盘的大户必败。因为外盘砸盘的有爆仓单支持,而内盘随便怎么拉,喂价就是不涨。
      内盘越大,危险越大。空头可以砸外盘的小盘子,收割内盘的大盘子。以后若是内盘交易量超过所有外盘了,难道我们还要用外盘价做喂价么?

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2019, 01:16:32 am »
       还有一个问题,我认为你好像把溢价定义成内盘bts的价格和外盘bts的价格差,我觉得不大妥当。
       这样并不能反应供需需求,当内盘拉盘的时候,鼓鼓的充值费率并没有下降,我们为什么就认为溢价降低了呢?
       我觉得溢价应当是用法币购买bitcny的价格,这样似乎更妥当些。当然仅仅用鼓鼓的充值费率我也认为不是很准确的,但至少比用价格差衡量溢价准确。

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: MARGIN CALL
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2019, 01:32:03 am »
再补充一点。
       为什么bts的价格在各个交易所有那么大的差距呢?经常超过2%。为什么没有人搬砖呢?就是因为有各种手续费啊,搬砖也不挣钱。而我们的喂价并没有考虑手续费,经过多次换算后的价格肯定低于实际价格。
       所以主要交易所(包括内盘)中的最高价,最接近bts的实际价格(投资者所付出的实际的钱)。