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Online bitcrab

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Price Feed Review
« on: May 09, 2019, 04:59:06 am »
This thread is to replace https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=28265.0

Feed Price is so important that we need some mechanism to review/audit it.

If anyone in BTS community find that some witnesses do bad in price feeding, please provide proof here to show to all, voters should also get information from thread and decide to support or not support which witnesses.

In bitCNY price feed, I'd like to emphasize one principle,which get strong consensus from China community: the price feed should not conflict with the DEX price plus an bitCNY premium/discount offset.

 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 05:29:52 am by bitcrab »

Offline finn-bts

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2019, 05:10:01 am »
bangzi 0.3372  clockwork 0.3399 roelandp 0.3402 fox 0.3453  zapata42-witness 0.3462 delegate-1.lafona0.3475
The price offered by these witnesses is far below the real price

Online bitcrab

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2019, 05:11:40 am »
CNY price feed review:
time: UTC 9th May 5:01

BTS price calculated from DEX price and bitCNY premium/discount:0.35061*[1+(2.65%+1.91%)/2) = 0.3586





Warn: bangzi, clockwork, roelandp feed a price which is 5.4%+ lower than the reasonable price at the time, please review your feeding scripts.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 05:26:40 am by bitcrab »

Offline sschiessl

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2019, 07:13:01 am »
bangzi 0.3372  clockwork 0.3399 roelandp 0.3402 fox 0.3453  zapata42-witness 0.3462 delegate-1.lafona0.3475
The price offered by these witnesses is far below the real price

Please provide a proper overview of market conditions at the time of your posting. Without that, your numbers are meaningless.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2019, 07:42:40 am »
This kind of witness who intentionally provides low feed  price is the devil.

Offline Bangzi

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2019, 07:45:04 am »
Fixed. High volume but huge spread in CoinEgg causing huge different in witnesses' price feed.

Compare trading price/volume at different exchanges:


Orderbook in CoinEgg:
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Offline binggo

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2019, 07:59:48 am »

CoinEgg?WTF? nobody use it, all is fake in coinegg.

Did you believe it? what are you thinking?

« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 08:01:40 am by binggo »

Offline ljk424

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2019, 08:09:59 am »
Fixed. High volume but huge spread in CoinEgg causing huge different in witnesses' price feed.

Compare trading price/volume at different exchanges:


Orderbook in CoinEgg:

coinegg?are you  kidding us?

Online bitcrab

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2019, 10:49:58 am »
Fixed. High volume but huge spread in CoinEgg causing huge different in witnesses' price feed.

Compare trading price/volume at different exchanges:


Orderbook in CoinEgg:


this remind us that it's important to filter out the data which is inconsistent with real market, "the price feed should not conflict with the DEX price plus an bitCNY premium/discount offset" can be a good reference in judging the data from CEXs.

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2019, 11:38:43 am »
Time: UTC 9th May, 19:30

at the time in in huobi BTS price is 0.0507 USDT, USDT OTC price is 6.85 CNY fiat, then 1USDT = 1.004USD, 1BTS = 0.0509USD
this value is consistent to DEX price.






Warning: xeldal feed a price of 0.0496USD, 2.6%+ lower than the reasonable price, please review your price feeding script.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 11:47:53 am by bitcrab »

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2019, 12:18:23 pm »
Time: UTC 9th May 12:15





Warning:delegate-1.lafona, sahkan-bitshares, witness-hiblockchain, zapata42-witness, xeldal at the time feed a 2%+ lower price than reasonable.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 12:22:09 pm by bitcrab »

Offline xeroc

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2019, 12:32:41 pm »
While we are at it, I started working on a python project that is supposed to automatically disapprove (unvote) witnesses that provide inaccurate feeds (relative to price feed) here:

https://github.com/xeroc/witness-monitor

Any development resources to improve that would be welcome.
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Online bitcrab

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2019, 01:47:50 pm »
While we are at it, I started working on a python project that is supposed to automatically disapprove (unvote) witnesses that provide inaccurate feeds (relative to price feed) here:

https://github.com/xeroc/witness-monitor

Any development resources to improve that would be welcome.

that's great.

I also would like to have one tool to provide convenience to voters to estimate witnesses' work.

say, integrate all the price feed data from each witness to a candle chart, with modified DEX price, that will also help a lot.

Offline yamtt

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2019, 02:43:53 pm »
Please tell me @clockwork This is not the first time.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 02:45:53 pm by yamtt »

Online ioex

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2019, 04:53:00 pm »
Please tell me @clockwork This is not the first time.


@clockwork this guy is also a Committee,please unvote this bad guy!

Offline clockwork

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2019, 06:59:41 pm »
only got round to accessing my feed script today just now.

My feed was actually the highest just now without changing anything a few hours later...I know we all wish BTS never moved down but guess what...it does....are we gonna have this discussion and people calling hard-working witnesses names EVERY time BTS moves down? Let me know so I can be prepared. It's crypto...it's volatile...it goes up and and it goes down. I don't like it either but it happens.

Still... I disabled the outlier CoinEgg component of the feed as it seems untrustworthy. Feed now 4% above median

Offline alt

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2019, 09:30:14 pm »
I can't imagine what logic can be used to implement disapprove witness automaticly based on the feed price.
it's unresponsoble to vote witness automaticly by proxy, if somebody did this, please let me know.
BTW, did this development pay by worker income?

While we are at it, I started working on a python project that is supposed to automatically disapprove (unvote) witnesses that provide inaccurate feeds (relative to price feed) here:

https://github.com/xeroc/witness-monitor

Any development resources to improve that would be welcome.

Offline sahkan

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2019, 09:39:32 pm »
Time: UTC 9th May 12:15





Warning:delegate-1.lafona, sahkan-bitshares, witness-hiblockchain, zapata42-witness, xeldal at the time feed a 2%+ lower price than reasonable.

Again, our feeds are not every second. It's a price snap shot taken within some specific period 20-40 minutes (2 in your case) so it's an unreasonable statement based on some snapshot in time. price feeds should average out to a true price among all witnesses. Look at the screen shots later on, my price happen to be 2% above on the other side of that price medium is that a warning also?

And when will GDEX start feeding all prices? Should be unvoted  by proxies until it does.

Offline binggo

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2019, 12:26:43 am »

Again, our feeds are not every second. It's a price snap shot taken within some specific period 20-40 minutes (2 in your case)

The feed price should provid within 5 minutes, within 3 minutes more better.

The pirce from specific period 20-40 minutes is a fake price.

BTS is a DEX, not MakerDao.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2019, 05:10:56 am »
Most of the trading volume in the CEX is fake, and the trading volume in the DEX is already more than the actual trading volume in many CEX.The actual price of the DEX  should be taken into account in the feed price.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2019, 07:40:26 am »
Of course you need to have reasonable configuration. But surely, if a single witness publishes a feed that is 5% (or more) away from feed price, the proxy should at least be notified.

Unvoting a witnesses can be justified when the last feed was older than 2 days, or when he doesn't follow consensus when it comes to MSSR or MCR.

I wrote this code in my spare time, as usual ..
I can't imagine what logic can be used to implement disapprove witness automaticly based on the feed price.
it's unresponsoble to vote witness automaticly by proxy, if somebody did this, please let me know.
BTW, did this development pay by worker income?

While we are at it, I started working on a python project that is supposed to automatically disapprove (unvote) witnesses that provide inaccurate feeds (relative to price feed) here:

https://github.com/xeroc/witness-monitor

Any development resources to improve that would be welcome.
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Online bitcrab

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2019, 07:47:51 am »
only got round to accessing my feed script today just now.

My feed was actually the highest just now without changing anything a few hours later...I know we all wish BTS never moved down but guess what...it does....are we gonna have this discussion and people calling hard-working witnesses names EVERY time BTS moves down? Let me know so I can be prepared. It's crypto...it's volatile...it goes up and and it goes down. I don't like it either but it happens.

Still... I disabled the outlier CoinEgg component of the feed as it seems untrustworthy. Feed now 4% above median

I don't think the higher feed price, the better, feed price should reflect the real market price. as feed price will have direct impact some operation, such as margin call, borrowing, force settlement.

it is not easy to judge what is "real market", but at least we can have some principles:

first, it is to get DEX price plus with smartcoin premium/discount as a reference, this is the most important reference.

second, it's not good to get average price of too long period and feed, an average of 5 min should be fine.

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2019, 07:58:09 am »
Again, our feeds are not every second. It's a price snap shot taken within some specific period 20-40 minutes (2 in your case) so it's an unreasonable statement based on some snapshot in time. price feeds should average out to a true price among all witnesses. Look at the screen shots later on, my price happen to be 2% above on the other side of that price medium is that a warning also?
And when will GDEX start feeding all prices? Should be unvoted  by proxies until it does.

feed price should reflect the real market price, 20-40 minutes as price taking period is not acceptable.

"the higher, the better" is not my opinion. but now the main problem of feed price is some witnesses always feed too low price. we need to focus on this.

it's not difficult for me to request my coder to add feed price to all the smartcoins, but I am not sure that will make big sense.

taking bitEUR as one example, it has a supply of 57000 EUR and 24hour volume is about 4000 BTS, there are many users and important community members that come from Europe, but anyone care bitEUR?

if we really want to cultivate bitEUR, we need to consider to change something, such as MSSR, MCR, market fee etc., but seems no one want to do that.


Offline bitProfessor

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2019, 10:08:54 am »
Of course you need to have reasonable configuration. But surely, if a single witness publishes a feed that is 5% (or more) away from feed price, the proxy should at least be notified.

Unvoting a witnesses can be justified when the last feed was older than 2 days, or when he doesn't follow consensus when it comes to MSSR or MCR.

I wrote this code in my spare time, as usual ..
I can't imagine what logic can be used to implement disapprove witness automaticly based on the feed price.
it's unresponsoble to vote witness automaticly by proxy, if somebody did this, please let me know.
BTW, did this development pay by worker income?

While we are at it, I started working on a python project that is supposed to automatically disapprove (unvote) witnesses that provide inaccurate feeds (relative to price feed) here:

https://github.com/xeroc/witness-monitor

Any development resources to improve that would be welcome.
Great!

Offline sahkan

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2019, 09:49:43 pm »
Again, our feeds are not every second. It's a price snap shot taken within some specific period 20-40 minutes (2 in your case) so it's an unreasonable statement based on some snapshot in time. price feeds should average out to a true price among all witnesses. Look at the screen shots later on, my price happen to be 2% above on the other side of that price medium is that a warning also?
And when will GDEX start feeding all prices? Should be unvoted  by proxies until it does.

feed price should reflect the real market price, 20-40 minutes as price taking period is not acceptable.

"the higher, the better" is not my opinion. but now the main problem of feed price is some witnesses always feed too low price. we need to focus on this.

it's not difficult for me to request my coder to add feed price to all the smartcoins, but I am not sure that will make big sense.

taking bitEUR as one example, it has a supply of 57000 EUR and 24hour volume is about 4000 BTS, there are many users and important community members that come from Europe, but anyone care bitEUR?

if we really want to cultivate bitEUR, we need to consider to change something, such as MSSR, MCR, market fee etc., but seems no one want to do that.

People that have bitEUR care, and RUBLE is another rapidly growing market as RUDEX is becoming more popular.

Offline abit

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2019, 10:18:52 pm »
Again, our feeds are not every second. It's a price snap shot taken within some specific period 20-40 minutes (2 in your case) so it's an unreasonable statement based on some snapshot in time. price feeds should average out to a true price among all witnesses. Look at the screen shots later on, my price happen to be 2% above on the other side of that price medium is that a warning also?
And when will GDEX start feeding all prices? Should be unvoted  by proxies until it does.

feed price should reflect the real market price, 20-40 minutes as price taking period is not acceptable.

Things to remember:

1. if price change is within a threshold (E.G. 0.1%, of course need to be small enough), to avoid chain bloat, it's better to skip feeding a new price. So it's possible that no new feed got published for a relatively long period, the reason is too little change in price. IMHO an average interval of 5~20 minute is good enough.

2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.

3. DEX price * premium? How to know how much the premium is? Volumes of the fiat gateways (MagicWallet/bitCNY:QC in ZB/bitCNY:CNC in AEX) are so low recently, which can not justify the premium. Also the gateway price (aka deposit/withdrawal processing fee) can change quickly.

4. volumes on many CEXs are FAKE.

By the way, we have some charts here: http://pricefeed-tracker.dex.trading/
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Offline binggo

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2019, 12:41:19 am »
Quote

2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.
I don't think this focus on the topic and a good talking.

You can you up?

Is it not a truth? or the design of feed price is perfect and not allowed people to judge it?


Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2019, 01:18:13 pm »

Things to remember:

1. if price change is within a threshold (E.G. 0.1%, of course need to be small enough), to avoid chain bloat, it's better to skip feeding a new price. So it's possible that no new feed got published for a relatively long period, the reason is too little change in price. IMHO an average interval of 5~20 minute is good enough.

2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.

3. DEX price * premium? How to know how much the premium is? Volumes of the fiat gateways (MagicWallet/bitCNY:QC in ZB/bitCNY:CNC in AEX) are so low recently, which can not justify the premium. Also the gateway price (aka deposit/withdrawal processing fee) can change quickly.

4. volumes on many CEXs are FAKE.

By the way, we have some charts here: http://pricefeed-tracker.dex.trading/

     
     1、 There is a gap between the prices of BTS in various exchanges. Why is there no arbitrage?Because there are all kinds of handling fees.However, you witnesses did not consider handling fees for all kinds of conversion of BTS prices.
      BTC--->BTS---->USDT----->CNY......   
      These price conversions do not take into account handling fees, so the feed price is always lower than the actual price.
      The highest price of BTS in major exchanges (including the DEX) is closest to the actual price.

      2、 Why can't the DEX price be taken into account in the feeding price? The volume of DEX has already exceeded tens of millions, surpassing many CEXs.
     Is it because the price is difficult to determine?
     How much does it cost for us to buy a BTS in the DEX? This is very clear,DEX price *Recharge rate.
     This is the real price of BTS, at least the feed price cannot deviate too much from this price.
     Why has MSSR dropped to 102%, and BITCNY premium is still large? The important reason is that the feed price is lower than the actual price.

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2019, 01:34:59 pm »
Quote

2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.
I don't think this focus on the topic and a good talking.

You can you up?

Is it not a truth? or the design of feed price is perfect and not allowed people to judge it?
People complained that witnesses updated price feed too fast when there is a dump happened on CEX. Now same people complain that witnesses updated price feed too slow when there is a pump? WTF?

Both longs and shorts are traders, we should treat them equally. That said, feed fair price, not too high, not too low. Don't change interval in downtrend nor in uptrend.
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Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2019, 02:06:02 pm »

if DEX's price*premium>1.05*CEX's price 
   feed price = 1.05*CEX'price
otherwise                     
   feed price = max(DEX's price*premium,CEX's price  )

premium=(Recharge rate+Withdrawal rate)/2
 

Offline yamtt

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2019, 03:07:22 pm »
bitEUR, bitUSD, MSSR, MCR, should be adjusted at the same time, we have been well reflected in bitcny


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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2019, 12:38:02 am »


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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2019, 07:20:22 am »
Entirely disagree about trying to remove potential for discounts or premiums. Thats just the market. If the feed price moves and orders are still stuck at sub-optimal prices then there is an opportunity for takers to make money, thats intended. Regarding witnesses not providing accurate feeds ontime, thats also up to the market, if people dont like it they should vote out those witnesses.

I would see value in an open source script that takes as many datapoints as possible into consideration and publishes a feed with a comparison +/- % to others witnesses, perhaps post it on a webpage so voters can make the decision themselves to vote/unvote, apart from that nothing much else should be done.
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Offline binggo

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2019, 08:12:31 am »
Quote
People complained that witnesses updated price feed too fast when there is a dump happened on CEX. Now same people complain that witnesses updated price feed too slow when there is a pump? WTF?

Both longs and shorts are traders, we should treat them equally. That said, feed fair price, not too high, not too low. Don't change interval in downtrend nor in uptrend.

People have two face, but if we have a reasonable and clear rules in the feed price, and remove the human factor from the witness, give the reasonable weight and parameter of CEX and DEX price, so some complaint must give a strong case.

The interval of feed price must have a rule.

Feed fair price, not too high, not too low, this is right, but some witnees was very hard to give the fair price, or too high, or too low.

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2019, 12:06:49 pm »
Quote

2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.
I don't think this focus on the topic and a good talking.

You can you up?

Is it not a truth? or the design of feed price is perfect and not allowed people to judge it?
People complained that witnesses updated price feed too fast when there is a dump happened on CEX. Now same people complain that witnesses updated price feed too slow when there is a pump? WTF?

Both longs and shorts are traders, we should treat them equally. That said, feed fair price, not too high, not too low. Don't change interval in downtrend nor in uptrend.

it's easy to say political correct words like "we should treat shorts and longs equally", but I don't think these words get the key points of this ecosystem.

in BTS, shorts and longs(here longs means BTS long, means the debt position owners) are naturally not equal.

longs has an leverage tool to use, and at the same time bear the risk of margin call, and at the same time longs create smartcoin supply which is base of this ecosystem.

shorts does not.

so the rules should firstly be fair to longs, prohibit longs from being unfairly exploited, this is relevant to what we will build - a financial system with amazing stable coins or a gambling house.

that's why I emphasize the principle "price feed should not conflict with the modified DEX price(DEX price plus premium/discount)".

and I feel this statement is self-explanatory: "if a BTS/smartcoin pair in DEX has good enough market depth and volume, it should play the most important role in price feed determination."

because any CEX may have fake volume, naked shorts, etc., but DEX does not.

and because DEX is our home field.

this is not ignoring price in CEX, actually any big price change in CEX can be transmitted to DEX quickly, if price change in one CEX is not transmitted to DEX, it can be ignored.
 
it's reluctant to ask BTSer to put money to CEX to sustain the price, DEX should be the front that reflect the final short-long battle result.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 01:47:21 pm by bitcrab »

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2019, 02:30:25 pm »
if DEX's price*(1+premium)>1.05*CEX's price 
   feed price = 1.05*CEX'price
otherwise                     
   feed price = max(DEX's price*(1+premium),CEX's price  )

premium=(Recharge rate-Withdrawal rate)/2

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2019, 07:35:36 am »
if DEX's price*(1+premium)>1.05*CEX's price 
   feed price = 1.05*CEX'price
otherwise                     
   feed price = max(DEX's price*(1+premium),CEX's price  )

premium=(Recharge rate-Withdrawal rate)/2

      Please witness try to provide high feed prices within a reasonable range.
      Now, if you buy a BTS in the DEX, the money that investors have to pay is the DEX price * recharge rate.This price is the actual price of BTS, why can't it be used as feed price?
      Of course, in order to prevent being used by whales, the price should not deviate too much from the CEX price (e.g. 5%).
     

Offline pc

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2019, 12:08:14 pm »
Please explain what "Recharge rate" and "withdrawal rate" is.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2019, 12:42:32 pm »
Please explain what "Recharge rate" and "withdrawal rate" is.

In China, if you buy BTS on the DEX, you mainly use a software ,name Magicwallet. In the software, there are acceptors who is responsible for buying and selling bitcny. first, you buy bitcny from the acceptors,and then you buy BTS from the DEX. Recharge rate is the handling fee for investors to purchase bitcny, and withdrawal rate is the handling fee for investors to sell bitcny. These two handling fees reflect bitcny's premium.
The higher the bitcny premium, the higher the recharge rate, and the withdrawal rate is even negative.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2019, 01:08:02 pm »
(1+ recharge rate)is the legal tender price for investors to buy bitcny in china.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2019, 01:21:54 pm »
      (1+ recharge rate)is the legal tender price for investors to buy bitcny in china.
      Thousands of our Chinese investors in the DEX(basically, the vast majority of DEX's traders) bought bitcny in this way, thus entering the DEX. DEX's price * recharge rate should be the most accurate price of BTS.

Offline pc

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2019, 07:19:23 am »
Thanks.

You're still ignoring the fact that there is a huge volume of poorly collateralized shorts out there, which means while BTS goes down the DEX price is permanently driven towards MSSR because of constant margin calling. Deriving the feed price from that skewed DEX price is what I'm primarily worried about, because it creates a dangerous feedback loop.

Also, I suspect that Chinese investors mostly do not invest in BTS, but they invest in BTC or other cryptos and use bitCNY/BTS merely as a vehicle. (I may be wrong of course.)

If large amounts of CNY enter the system that way, they will accept a worse-than-fair (less BTS per CNY and higher recharge rate) price, whereas when investors want to exit into CNY they will pay more BTS per CNY and accept a higher withdraw rate. Either way, the MagicWallet price will be skewed relative to the feed price. In a healthy market environment these differences would be resolved through arbitrage. Arbitrage is difficult here because of the general difficulty of investing CNY into cryptos. This only means that we must accept bigger differences, because with higher potential profits arbitrage will kick in at some point.

It is still debatable if the MagicWallet price reflects the fair price better than an external CEX. I see your logic there. At the very least though, the effect of margin calls on the DEX price must be taken into account.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Online bitcrab

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2019, 12:18:24 pm »
Thanks.

You're still ignoring the fact that there is a huge volume of poorly collateralized shorts out there, which means while BTS goes down the DEX price is permanently driven towards MSSR because of constant margin calling. Deriving the feed price from that skewed DEX price is what I'm primarily worried about, because it creates a dangerous feedback loop.

Also, I suspect that Chinese investors mostly do not invest in BTS, but they invest in BTC or other cryptos and use bitCNY/BTS merely as a vehicle. (I may be wrong of course.)

If large amounts of CNY enter the system that way, they will accept a worse-than-fair (less BTS per CNY and higher recharge rate) price, whereas when investors want to exit into CNY they will pay more BTS per CNY and accept a higher withdraw rate. Either way, the MagicWallet price will be skewed relative to the feed price. In a healthy market environment these differences would be resolved through arbitrage. Arbitrage is difficult here because of the general difficulty of investing CNY into cryptos. This only means that we must accept bigger differences, because with higher potential profits arbitrage will kick in at some point.

It is still debatable if the MagicWallet price reflects the fair price better than an external CEX. I see your logic there. At the very least though, the effect of margin calls on the DEX price must be taken into account.

what does CNY feed price mean? it means at which price you can do conversion between BTS and fiat CNY.

DEX price and bitCNY deposit/withdrawl fee in magic wallet is a good source to get such a price.

surely there are other ways, for example, the BTS/USDT price and USDT/CNY OTC price from huobi is also a good source to get such a price.

there may be price difference, but we should respect DEX enough as this is our home field, it is not acceptable that the feed price is much lower than the modified DEX price(2% or more), if you can really get BTS much cheaper than modified DEX price, please buy some and sell in DEX.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2019, 01:02:47 pm »
       Funny thing is, at the current feeding price, there is basically no place to buy such a cheap BTS. Witnesses actually think that the feeding price is no problem.
       For example, I bought 500,000 BTS in DEX last night. Each BTS cost me 0.404 RMB (2.1% of recharge rate is included). But the feed price is 0.395. Please tell me where the 0.395 BTS is available. Or which witness is willing to sell it to me at this price?

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2019, 01:06:17 pm »
       Funny thing is, at the current feeding price, there is basically no place to buy such a cheap BTS. Witnesses actually think that the feeding price is no problem.
       For example, I bought 500,000 BTS in DEX last night. Each BTS cost me 0.404 RMB (2.1% of recharge rate is included). But the feed price is 0.395. Please tell me where the 0.395 BTS is available. Or which witness is willing to sell it to me at this price?

no ,you misunderstand. The feed price is the witness want to buy at the price. You should sell to them.

Offline clockwork

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2019, 03:02:39 pm »
       Funny thing is, at the current feeding price, there is basically no place to buy such a cheap BTS. Witnesses actually think that the feeding price is no problem.
       For example, I bought 500,000 BTS in DEX last night. Each BTS cost me 0.404 RMB (2.1% of recharge rate is included). But the feed price is 0.395. Please tell me where the 0.395 BTS is available. Or which witness is willing to sell it to me at this price?

I can sell you BTS for 6.2 cents like gdex-witness feeds if you want :)

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2019, 03:18:25 pm »
Time: UTC 14th May 15:08

BTS price in CNY should be about 0.4124*1.009 = 0.416CNY







Warning: verbaltech2, fox, zapata42-witness, blckchnd, delegate-1.lafona feed a price 2.3%+ lower than reasonable level.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 03:38:31 pm by bitcrab »

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2019, 03:40:29 pm »
I can sell you BTS for 6.2 cents like gdex-witness feeds if you want :)

sorry, gdex-witness will check and update USD price feeding, however that's not the excuse for you to not feed well. :)

Offline clockwork

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2019, 03:50:56 pm »
I can sell you BTS for 6.2 cents like gdex-witness feeds if you want :)

sorry, gdex-witness will check and update USD price feeding, however that's not the excuse for you to not feed well. :)


Was only joking to point out double standards. Already explained what the issue was on a different thread due to fake Vols combined with zb API being down.

Feed looks stable now... Will adjust as needed

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2019, 04:17:29 am »
Cn-vote has deleted the following witnesses:
delegate-1.lafona
openledger-dc
verbaltech2
clockwork
blckchnd

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2019, 06:23:57 am »
Cn-vote has deleted the following witnesses:
delegate-1.lafona
openledger-dc
verbaltech2
clockwork
blckchnd
Reason:
1.disrespect for Community Consensus.
2. Feed price is not timely(More than 24 hours)
3. Deviation from market price。
Evidence:
https://github.com/Yamtt/bitcny/issues/1

Offline binggo

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2019, 12:37:37 pm »
zbbtsbp   中比的态度哪?竞选见证人的时候最基本的许诺在哪?0.4404?
verbaltech2
xeldal


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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2019, 02:34:08 pm »
in my view, generally speaking, below are some principles to judge whether a witness feed price well enough.

1. feed price should reflect the price at which the conversion can be done between BTS and the pegged fiat.

2. feed price should be updated frequently enough to reflect the real market price.

3. for smartcoin with enough market depth in trading pair with BTS in DEX, such as bitCNY, feed price should not conflict with the modified DEX price, which means the DEX price plus the smartcoin premium/discount.

Offline Thul3

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2019, 04:12:23 pm »
in my view, generally speaking, below are some principles to judge whether a witness feed price well enough.

1. feed price should reflect the price at which the conversion can be done between BTS and the pegged fiat.

2. feed price should be updated frequently enough to reflect the real market price.

3. for smartcoin with enough market depth in trading pair with BTS in DEX, such as bitCNY, feed price should not conflict with the modified DEX price, which means the DEX price plus the smartcoin premium/discount.

So we would get margin calls on DEX (with 1.01) which would be more expensiv than BTS at regular price on CEX ?

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #54 on: May 22, 2019, 04:57:00 pm »
Other stable coins like bitEUR or bitRuble should also get a MCR of 1.6 and MSSR of 1.02.
@bitcrab: Can you initiate a vote for this parameter to other FIAT stable coins?

Offline binggo

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #55 on: May 22, 2019, 05:57:12 pm »
Other stable coins like bitEUR or bitRuble should also get a MCR of 1.6 and MSSR of 1.02.
@bitcrab: Can you initiate a vote for this parameter to other FIAT stable coins?

I think the user who use the bitEUR or bitRuble should think something more, because of these bitasset didn't have the Fiat gateways in DEX and didn't have the Fiat Trading pair in CEX.

How the user can detemine the quality of feed price? which price is the real fiat pirce?

But the funny things is the user of bitUSD seemed  these didn't need to care about.

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #56 on: May 22, 2019, 06:06:01 pm »
@binggo: For bitEUR price feed we can take a bitUSD price feed + EUR/USD exchange rate.

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2019, 08:49:23 pm »
@binggo: For bitEUR price feed we can take a bitUSD price feed + EUR/USD exchange rate.

This is wrong.

EUR-USDT-BTC-BTS-BTC-USDT-EUR, there have some trading loss and charge, you take 1 EUR in maybe only 0.96 EUR out, the 0.04 EUR must count in the feed price.

If you want EUR chang to USD, you need to count the exchange loss and the charge.

It's not simple, and the feed price publisher must know these, if the feed price publisher didn't know these, please kill the stablecoin. 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 12:58:05 am by binggo »

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2019, 09:01:05 am »
So we would get margin calls on DEX (with 1.01) which would be more expensiv than BTS at regular price on CEX ?

yes, maybe, when all the price is market price and bitCNY has a 1%+ premium.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 09:02:41 am by bitcrab »

Offline finn-bts

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2019, 03:39:21 pm »
The prices offered by zbbtsbp were not updated for several hours and had deviated significantly from the actual price

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2019, 03:41:30 pm »
I can sell you BTS for 6.2 cents like gdex-witness feeds if you want :)

sorry, gdex-witness will check and update USD price feeding, however that's not the excuse for you to not feed well. :)


Was only joking to point out double standards. Already explained what the issue was on a different thread due to fake Vols combined with zb API being down.

Feed looks stable now... Will adjust as needed
I agree. We need an accurate price, not too high or too low.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2019, 02:06:08 am »
in my view, generally speaking, below are some principles to judge whether a witness feed price well enough.

1. feed price should reflect the price at which the conversion can be done between BTS and the pegged fiat.

2. feed price should be updated frequently enough to reflect the real market price.

3. for smartcoin with enough market depth in trading pair with BTS in DEX, such as bitCNY, feed price should not conflict with the modified DEX price, which means the DEX price plus the smartcoin premium/discount.

Exactly. I hope all the witnesses can reach the consensus.

Offline finn-bts

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2019, 12:14:50 am »
Complain XMAN, as a witness he has not updated the price for more than 22 hours.

Offline binggo

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2019, 05:04:14 am »
I don't want say any "shit" words to these feed price, but if you can't provide a "fair" and "timely“ feed price and feel very hard, can you leave quietly and let other do this.

Can you explain where and how get these price?

« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 05:05:47 am by binggo »

Offline sopogsqwe

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Производство обуви из ПВХ и ЭВА
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2019, 01:22:22 pm »
Обувная фабрика  «ВВС» основана в 1996 г., и является одним из ведущих предприятий Ростовской области сообразно производству качественной обуви из пластиката и ЭВА.
 
Обувь изготавливается на итальянском оборудовании «Nuova Zarine» и «Wintech». Хорошая техническая оснащенность, нынешний дизайн, высокая квалификация работников позволяет пропускать обувь высокого качества по низким ценам.
 
Технология изготовления и применяемые материалы обеспечивают эластичность, легкость и высокую прочность нашей обуви. Она удобна и практична. Вся обувь сертифицирована и имеет санитарно-эпидемиологическое заключение.
 
Обувь выпускается на однако возрастные группы и предназначена для работы и отдыха.
 
Мы будем рады замечать вас в числе в числе наших партнеров и сделаем безвыездно, чтобы наше помощь стало взаимовыгодным и долгосрочным.
 
 
( спортивное иждивение которое представлено продаже ) 
 
[url=https://sapog-vvs.ru/]https://sapog-vvs.ru/

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« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2019, 01:26:20 pm »
Обувная фабрика  «ВВС» основана в 1996 г., и является одним из ведущих предприятий Ростовской области сообразно производству качественной обуви из пластиката и ЭВА.
 
Обувь изготавливается на итальянском оборудовании «Nuova Zarine» и «Wintech». Хорошая техническая оснащенность, нынешний дизайн, высокая квалификация работников позволяет исключать обувь высокого качества по низким ценам.
 
Технология изготовления и применяемые материалы обеспечивают эластичность, легкость и высокую прочность нашей обуви. Она удобна и практична. Вся обувь сертифицирована и имеет санитарно-эпидемиологическое заключение.
 
Обувь выпускается для однако возрастные группы и предназначена чтобы работы и отдыха.
 
Мы будем рады видеть вас в числе в числе наших партнеров и сделаем всегда, дабы наше помощь стало взаимовыгодным и долгосрочным.
 
 
speroni обувь официальный
 
https://sapog-vvs.ru/

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« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2019, 01:30:56 pm »
Обувная фабрика  «ВВС» основана в 1996 г., и является одним из ведущих предприятий Ростовской области сообразно производству качественной обуви из пластиката и ЭВА.
 
Обувь изготавливается на итальянском оборудовании «Nuova Zarine» и «Wintech». Хорошая техническая оснащенность, нынешний дизайн, высокая квалификация работников позволяет исключать обувь высокого качества по низким ценам.
 
Технология изготовления и применяемые материалы обеспечивают эластичность, легкость и высокую прочность нашей обуви. Она удобна и практична. Вся обувь сертифицирована и имеет санитарно-эпидемиологическое заключение.
 
Обувь выпускается для однако возрастные группы и предназначена чтобы работы и отдыха.
 
Мы будем рады видеть вас в числе в числе наших партнеров и сделаем всегда, дабы наше помощь стало взаимовыгодным и долгосрочным.
 
 
speroni обувь официальный
 
https://sapog-vvs.ru/

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2019, 01:32:48 pm »
Обувная фабрика  «ВВС» основана в 1996 г., и является одним из ведущих предприятий Ростовской области сообразно производству качественной обуви из пластиката и ЭВА.
 
Обувь изготавливается на итальянском оборудовании «Nuova Zarine» и «Wintech». Хорошая техническая оснащенность, нынешний дизайн, высокая квалификация работников позволяет исключать обувь высокого качества по низким ценам.
 
Технология изготовления и применяемые материалы обеспечивают эластичность, легкость и высокую прочность нашей обуви. Она удобна и практична. Вся обувь сертифицирована и имеет санитарно-эпидемиологическое заключение.
 
Обувь выпускается для однако возрастные группы и предназначена чтобы работы и отдыха.
 
Мы будем рады видеть вас в числе в числе наших партнеров и сделаем всегда, дабы наше помощь стало взаимовыгодным и долгосрочным.
 
 
speroni обувь официальный
 
https://sapog-vvs.ru/

Offline sopogsqwe

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« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2019, 01:35:45 pm »
Обувная здание  «ВВС» основана в 1996 г., и является одним из ведущих предприятий Ростовской области по производству качественной обуви из пластиката и ЭВА.
 
Обувь изготавливается для итальянском оборудовании «Nuova Zarine» и «Wintech». Хорошая техническая оснащенность, нынешний дизайн, высокая квалификация работников позволяет выпускать обувь высокого качества сообразно низким ценам.
 
Технология изготовления и применяемые материалы обеспечивают эластичность, легкость и высокую прочность нашей обуви. Она удобна и практична. Вся обувь сертифицирована и имеет санитарно-эпидемиологическое заключение.
 
Обувь выпускается на все возрастные группы и предназначена для работы и отдыха.
 
Мы будем рады замечать вас в числе в числе наших партнеров и сделаем все, воеже наше сотрудничество стало взаимовыгодным и долгосрочным.
 
 
галоши белые эва официальный сайт
 
https://sapog-vvs.ru/

Offline sopogsqwe

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« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2019, 01:40:13 pm »
Обувная фабрика  «ВВС» основана в 1996 г., и является одним из ведущих предприятий Ростовской области по производству качественной обуви из пластиката и ЭВА.
 
Обувь изготавливается для итальянском оборудовании «Nuova Zarine» и «Wintech». Хорошая техническая оснащенность, современный дизайн, высокая квалификация работников позволяет выпускать обувь высокого качества по низким ценам.
 
Технология изготовления и применяемые материалы обеспечивают эластичность, легкость и высокую прочность нашей обуви. Она удобна и практична. Вся обувь сертифицирована и имеет санитарно-эпидемиологическое заключение.
 
Обувь выпускается для однако возрастные группы и предназначена для работы и отдыха.
 
Мы будем рады видеть вас в числе в числе наших партнеров и сделаем всетаки, чтобы наше помощь стало взаимовыгодным и долгосрочным.
 
 
эва сапоги официальный сайт ростов
 
https://sapog-vvs.ru/

Offline sopogsqwe

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Производство обуви из ПВХ и ЭВА
« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2019, 01:44:15 pm »
Обувная фабрика  «ВВС» основана в 1996 г., и является одним из ведущих предприятий Ростовской области сообразно производству качественной обуви из пластиката и ЭВА.
 
Обувь изготавливается на итальянском оборудовании «Nuova Zarine» и «Wintech». Хорошая техническая оснащенность, современный дизайн, высокая квалификация работников позволяет исключать обувь высокого качества сообразно низким ценам.
 
Технология изготовления и применяемые материалы обеспечивают эластичность, легкость и высокую прочность нашей обуви. Она удобна и практична. Вся обувь сертифицирована и имеет санитарно-эпидемиологическое заключение.
 
Обувь выпускается для все возрастные группы и предназначена чтобы работы и отдыха.
 
Мы будем рады примечать вас в числе в числе наших партнеров и сделаем всегда, для наше сотрудничество стало взаимовыгодным и долгосрочным.
 
 
[email protected]
 
https://sapog-vvs.ru/

Offline sopogsqwe

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Производство обуви из ПВХ и ЭВА
« Reply #71 on: May 25, 2019, 01:47:33 pm »
Обувная здание  «ВВС» основана в 1996 г., и является одним из ведущих предприятий Ростовской области сообразно производству качественной обуви из пластиката и ЭВА.
 
Обувь изготавливается для итальянском оборудовании «Nuova Zarine» и «Wintech». Хорошая техническая оснащенность, современный дизайн, высокая квалификация работников позволяет выпускать обувь высокого качества сообразно низким ценам.
 
Технология изготовления и применяемые материалы обеспечивают эластичность, легкость и высокую прочность нашей обуви. Она удобна и практична. Вся обувь сертифицирована и имеет санитарно-эпидемиологическое заключение.
 
Обувь выпускается на все возрастные группы и предназначена ради работы и отдыха.
 
Мы будем рады замечать вас в числе в числе наших партнеров и сделаем всегда, чтобы наше сотрудничество стало взаимовыгодным и долгосрочным.
 
 
обувная здание резиновые
 
https://sapog-vvs.ru/

Offline sopogsqwe

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Производство обуви из ПВХ и ЭВА
« Reply #72 on: May 25, 2019, 01:49:59 pm »
Обувная фабрика  «ВВС» основана в 1996 г., и является одним из ведущих предприятий Ростовской области по производству качественной обуви из пластиката и ЭВА.
 
Обувь изготавливается для итальянском оборудовании «Nuova Zarine» и «Wintech». Хорошая техническая оснащенность, современный дизайн, высокая квалификация работников позволяет пропускать обувь высокого качества сообразно низким ценам.
 
Технология изготовления и применяемые материалы обеспечивают эластичность, легкость и высокую прочность нашей обуви. Она удобна и практична. Вся обувь сертифицирована и имеет санитарно-эпидемиологическое заключение.
 
Обувь выпускается на безвыездно возрастные группы и предназначена чтобы работы и отдыха.
 
Мы будем рады примечать вас в числе в числе наших партнеров и сделаем все, дабы наше сотрудничество стало взаимовыгодным и долгосрочным.
 
 
производство калош в россии ростовская област
 
https://sapog-vvs.ru/

Offline sopogsqwe

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Действие обуви из ПВХ и ЭВА
« Reply #73 on: May 25, 2019, 01:56:22 pm »
Обувная фабрика  «ВВС» основана в 1996 г., и является одним из ведущих предприятий Ростовской области сообразно производству качественной обуви из пластиката и ЭВА.
 
Обувь изготавливается на итальянском оборудовании «Nuova Zarine» и «Wintech». Хорошая техническая оснащенность, современный дизайн, высокая квалификация работников позволяет исключать обувь высокого качества сообразно низким ценам.
 
Технология изготовления и применяемые материалы обеспечивают эластичность, легкость и высокую прочность нашей обуви. Она удобна и практична. Вся обувь сертифицирована и имеет санитарно-эпидемиологическое заключение.
 
Обувь выпускается для безвыездно возрастные группы и предназначена для работы и отдыха.
 
Мы будем рады видеть вас в числе в числе наших партнеров и сделаем безвыездно, дабы наше помощь стало взаимовыгодным и долгосрочным.
 
 
фабрика обуви пвх
 
https://sapog-vvs.ru/

Offline abit

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #74 on: May 25, 2019, 07:39:32 pm »
Complain XMAN, as a witness he has not updated the price for more than 22 hours.
Actually xman was voted out of top 21 so unable to update price feed.
BTS account: abit
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BTS witness: in.abit

Online bitcrab

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #75 on: May 26, 2019, 03:01:26 pm »
at the time bitCNY still have premium.

Warning: zbbtsbp, verbaltech2, xeldal, please.



« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 03:03:30 pm by bitcrab »

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #76 on: May 26, 2019, 04:24:52 pm »
I have updated my price feed and it should now be within the range of feeds produced within the last 15 minutes.

My Feed:
|  CNY   |    BTS     |  0.452646

Others:
verbaltech2                 0.4479   0.5599   1.6   1.02   1 minute ago
gdex-witness              0.4535   0.5981   1.6   1.01   2 minutes ago
roelandp                     0.4512   0.5414   1.6   1.02   3 minutes ago
fox                              0.4515   0.5418   1.6   1.02   5 minutes ago
btspp-witness             0.4523   0.5798   1.6   1.01   6 minutes ago
clockwork                   0.4540   0.5448   1.6   1.02   8 minutes ago
openledger-dc            0.4531   0.5696   1.6   1.02   10 minutes ago
in.abit                         0.4510    0.5782   1.6   1.02   10 minutes ago
magicwallet.witness   0.4525   0.5430   1.6   1.01   12 minutes ago
BTS Witnesses: delegate-1.lafona     Witness Thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21569.msg280911/topicseen.html#msg280911
MUSE Witness: lafona